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post #331 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 04:42 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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Originally Posted by DogOnBoard View Post
I'm wondering if 18/24 mpg in the next RL will be good enough to compete in the 2015 truck market. Ford's F-150 EcoBoost is already getting close to that and may equal or surpass it by 2015. Many midsize truck buyers want a bigger fuel efficiency advantage in exchange for the capability trade-off with fullsize trucks. GM, Ford and Ram are facing pressure to improve truck mpg to meet the coming CAFE regs. Honda sells so many fuel efficient vehicles that it doesn't have to worry much about the RL's mpg to meet CAFE, but the next RL does have to compete with other trucks.
I have been looking at the Eco Boost on Fuelly and I don't see these great numbers.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150

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post #332 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 04:47 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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I have been looking at the Eco Boost on Fuelly and I don't see these great numbers.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150
People seem to be hitting averages of 16/17 with an F150 ecoboost on fuelly. While not amazing that is pretty good for a truck that in the right configuration can tow 11K lbs.

The new Ram 1500 with the Pentastar V6 and 8 speed transmission is supposed to be rated at 18/24 by EPA numbers, we will have to wait and see what that works out to real world. I could see it maybe get 18-18.5 in real world combined driving. But that is with a naturally aspirated V6 that puts out considerably less power than the turbo'd V6 in the ecoboost. The Pentastar V6 would probably be a great motor for Honda to put into the RL. Maybe they can get the motor and ZF i speed transmission Ram is using if they ask really nicely.
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post #333 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 05:51 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

If I wanted a Dodge, I would buy a Dodge. However, I wanted a Honda, and bought one.

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post #334 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 08:36 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

The Pentastar V6 is extremely new and untested and the 8-speed transmission is even more new and even more untested. Plus, they're Dodge products. On the other hand, variations of the 3.5 engine and 5-speed auto, although considered outdated technology, have been reliably powering RL's, Pilots and Odysseys for the better part of a decade. The 6-speed auto is newer, but has still been proving itself for much longer than the Dodge products. There is quite a bit more power and efficiency that can be found with the 3.5 liter. Which would you rather have - a fancy, powerful, expensive turbo truck that claims 22mpg and gets 16 or a fancy, less powerful, less expensive V6 truck that claims 21mpg and can actually see 23-24 on the highway?

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post #335 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 08:42 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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The Pentastar V6 is extremely new and untested and the 8-speed transmission is even more new and even more untested. Plus, they're Dodge products. On the other hand, variations of the 3.5 engine and 5-speed auto, although considered outdated technology, have been reliably powering RL's, Pilots and Odysseys for the better part of a decade. The 6-speed auto is newer, but has still been proving itself for much longer than the Dodge products. There is quite a bit more power and efficiency that can be found with the 3.5 liter. Which would you rather have - a fancy, powerful, expensive turbo truck that claims 22mpg and gets 16 or a fancy, less powerful, less expensive V6 truck that claims 21mpg and can actually see 23-24 on the highway?
The transmission is actually from ZF, not from Dodge. The Pentastar has already had some big problems with cylinder heads, but I think they have fixed it now. Within a year or two though the pentastar is going into enough vehicles that they will have worked their kinks out and it should be a damn good modern V6, which was allegedly designed from the getgo to get turbo'd up like the ecoboost V6. A motor like that would not be a bad thing for Honda to have in its arsenal.
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post #336 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 08:46 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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The transmission is actually from ZF, not from Dodge. The Pentastar has already had some big problems with cylinder heads, but I think they have fixed it now. Within a year or two though the pentastar is going into enough vehicles that they will have worked their kinks out and it should be a damn good modern V6, which was allegedly designed from the getgo to get turbo'd up like the ecoboost V6. A motor like that would not be a bad thing for Honda to have in its arsenal.
That post read more negatively than I had intended. I only meant that having a modern V6 purposefully designed to be functional well into the future would be a useful tool for Honda to have to draw upon. I don't know if their 3.5L V6 is made for the long haul, or if it is only meant to be viable for a few more years.
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post #337 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 09:12 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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The transmission is actually from ZF, not from Dodge. The Pentastar has already had some big problems with cylinder heads, but I think they have fixed it now. Within a year or two though the pentastar is going into enough vehicles that they will have worked their kinks out and it should be a damn good modern V6, which was allegedly designed from the getgo to get turbo'd up like the ecoboost V6. A motor like that would not be a bad thing for Honda to have in its arsenal.
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Originally Posted by phillyguy View Post
That post read more negatively than I had intended. I only meant that having a modern V6 purposefully designed to be functional well into the future would be a useful tool for Honda to have to draw upon. I don't know if their 3.5L V6 is made for the long haul, or if it is only meant to be viable for a few more years.
Nah, it wasn't negative. I know the 8-speed is from ZF. Most transmissions and differentials are designed by other companies other than the vehicle manufacturers anyways. The RL's VTM-4 rear diff is a Borg Warner unit. I really do hope the Pentastar and the 8-speed are good products. Dodge has had a string of not so wonderful products with the exception of the thirsty Hemi and the last few iterations of the Viper. The last few years have certainly looked promising for Dodge, but only time will tell. With direct injection and revised valve timing, the 3.5 can be a very solid engine. It's rumored it will have 290hp and 290-300 lb./ft. That would be the power boost that so many RL owners have been wanting for years. A great byproduct of that would be a better power-to-weight ratio which would help with fuel efficiency.

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post #338 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 09:16 PM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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Nah, it wasn't negative. I know the 8-speed is from ZF. Most transmissions and differentials are designed by other companies other than the vehicle manufacturers anyways. The RL's VTM-4 rear diff is a Borg Warner unit. I really do hope the Pentastar and the 8-speed are good products. Dodge has had a string of not so wonderful products with the exception of the thirsty Hemi and the last few iterations of the Viper. The last few years have certainly looked promising for Dodge, but only time will tell. With direct injection and revised valve timing, the 3.5 can be a very solid engine. It's rumored it will have 290hp and 290-300 lb./ft. That would be the power boost that so many RL owners have been wanting for years. A great byproduct of that would be a better power-to-weight ratio which would help with fuel efficiency.
I hope that Dodge's experiment will grille shutters and their other fuel saving features in their new Ram workout as well. A RL with a more powerful yet more efficient motor, better transmission, and improved aerodynamics due to grille shutters and possible air suspension would be extraordinary. I'm not even sure if I could hold off the mandatory 1-2 years to let the new product kinks get worked out if Honda offered something like that. I'd be first in line.

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post #339 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

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Possibly, but Honda is very slow to react to trends and new, unproven technologies. I highly doubt we'll see anything like that anytime soon. There was rumor of a 7-speed dual clutch happening for the new Acura RL and maybe the NSX. That sort of technology won't filter into the Honda brand for many years.
The 7spd dc is a bit more than rumor at this point.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...lx-review.html
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/quic...es-184319.html
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post #340 of 1360 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ridgeline - 2013, 14 & 15 - the future.

The Pentastar engine is an excellent design that has yet to reach its potential. From what I hear they're working on adapting Fiat's Multi-Air technology to the engine. I don't think they've even released a direct injected version yet.

As for the ZF-8HP transmission. It's well proven and is used by many manufacturers. The list I see include Audi, Bentley, BMW, Chrysler, Dodge, Jaguar, Lancia, Land Rover, Ram, Rolls-Royce, and Volkswagen. That's an impressive resume for a transmission.

Can you keep a secret? (lol) I have heard a rumor (hint, hint) that Honda has been working on licensing the ZF-9HP transmission. It would be the ZF design but Honda will build it themselves. The 9HP is a very advanced transmission and I hear numbers that it's at least 15% more efficient than the current Honda 6AT. Don't get your hopes up because it's not a done deal and this is at least a couple of years away and would probably hit Acura for a couple of years before migrating to the Honda brand.

ZF also has a really nice (but expensive) 7 speed dual-clutch transmission... that would be very, very nice.

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