Well another of my wild ass early prediction posts. The 2017 Ridgeline is not yet released and only went into production today, but I've heard some rumblings about some 2018 changes... so here we go:
Now that both IIHS and NHTSA have said that most automotive headlight systems are marginal or poor (only the Toyota Prius got a "good" rating out of 31 headlight systems tested) Honda will modify the headlight system on both the Pilot and Ridgeline. Even low end models will get LED headlights.
Both Pilot and Ridgeline will get the new Honda 10-speed automatic transmission. Both the 6-speed and 9-speed will be discontinued.
Other than a couple of color changes not much will change for 2018.
And not only will you get bent over the proverbial barrel by taking the depreciation hit on a two year old vehicle. It will be exacerbated by the fact that it is a technologically outdated two year old vehicle.
Seems like a short term lease is the best way to go at least on these early models.
Thanks Joe! I hope you will keep posting reliable information on upcoming changes. I think the news that the 10AT is likely coming for 2018 will definitely cause some readers to hold off on a purchase. But others who want the proven reliability of the 6-sp and much prefer an actual shift lever instead of push buttons might jump in on a 2017.
I'm tempted to start another thread later this year where we can post what we want Honda to fix about the Gen2. Big stuff will have to wait for mid-MY refresh but small stuff wouldn't. Examples: give us a proper console armrest, add a freakin' tailgate lock, restore some basic control knobs, put anti-glare covering on the center display, etc. And how about making the Sport model a little more off-road competent for MY 2019!
OMG, I upgraded to LED bulbs in my motorcycle and the headlight will melt your retinas at 50 paces.:nerd: Ok I know the reflector wasn't designed for LED but man the LED provide a very nice, crisp light.
I predict more changes than that due to poor sales and complaints for the lack of. Most of us here know what they are. IMO, prices are going to have to be right to stop loyal customers from jumping ship or major discounts.
No center console armrest = no 2018 Ridgeline for me, either. And, the more of the 2017 I see the less I like the design - the opposite of what happened with the G1.
Factory-installed HID and LED headlights look cool and cutting edge. However, their unnatural spectrum simply doesn't have as high of a color rendering index as incandescent (halogen). The light appears cool, clean, crisp, and white, but the human eye is more sensitive to warmer reds and greens than blues. The greatest advantage HIDs and LEDs have over incandescent is that there is less light scatter (wasted light) so more can be focused where it is needed.
The downside of HIDs and LEDs is the cost of replacement bulbs/assemblies. On current LED assemblies, the "bulb" is not a serviceable part since it is integrated with the lens. A new LED highlight ranges from about $700 to about $2,500 if the LED(s) fail or you crack a lens.
Simply using a projector beam setup in front of a cheap, replaceable, incandescent bulb can make a big difference. The light pattern between the halogen reflector lamps in the 2015 CR-V I was driving was definitely inferior to the halogen projector lamps in the 2016 CR-V I bought - the latter focuses more light where it needs to go. Driving side-by-side with my brother in his 2016 Civic Touring with LED headlamps, I see no difference in the quantity of light compared to my incandescent bulbs and colors aren't rendered as naturally with his LEDs.
In short, I think LEDs look cool, but a well-designed halogen is still a competitive choice at a much lower cost.
...Now that both IIHS and NHTSA have said that most automotive headlight systems are marginal or poor (only the Toyota Prius got a "good" rating out of 31 headlight systems tested) Honda will modify the headlight system on both the Pilot and Ridgeline. Even low end models will get LED headlights….
Manufacturers can start by ensuring optimal aim off the assembly line, be it halogen, laser, HID, or LED. The IIHS report stated that this was not currently being accomplished.
I have very mixed feelings about LED. I think the CRI will get there eventually, using multiple diodes with different levels of various phosphors, to get just the right mix for high CRI, better than incans. However, the demand is not great enough yet, and there will be early failures that will slow adoption even more, e.g.-blue phosphors burning out before white phosphors and losing CRI over time.
OTOH, many of the HID setups are headache-inducing for other drivers, mainly due to poor setup. I also agree that mfrs are not properly aligning headlights...gotta keep the customers happy at the expense of other drivers.
Here in Denver the city is converting traffic signals to LED's. Only problem in this cooler climate--not enough heat is generated by the LED bulbs to melt the snow off the traffic signals. Drivers had a tough time during the last big snowstorm determining what color was lit on the signal.
When customers find out about the upcoming changes, sales of the G2 will grind slowly to a halt as customers wait for the 2018.
Here in Denver the city is converting traffic signals to LED's. Only problem in this cooler climate--not enough heat is generated by the LED bulbs to melt the snow off the traffic signals. Drivers had a tough time during the last big snowstorm determining what color was lit on the signal.
When customers find out about the upcoming changes, sales of the G2 will grind slowly to a halt as customers wait for the 2018.
Texas heat must create a different problem... We started getting LED traffic signals years ago. While they don't normally go completely out like incandescent lights do, a large percentage of them end up with missing or intermittent groups of LEDs. You can still tell what color the light is, but it looks awful.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Ridgeline. If it sells significantly better than the G1, I'll be very surprised. If Honda properly markets the G2, they'll be able to sell more than they sold of the G1. While I can't see the majority of G1 buyers jumping in the G2, there may be an untapped market for a "softer" version of the Ridgeline.
Vehicles are gettin like i phones now, you buy one and in 6 months theres a new one out and your old one wont be worth a crap. I personally think its got a lot to do with the baby boom age hitting there site limits at there age. All the signs I put up have gotten twice the size and are diamond grade material (very bright). I remember when I bought my RL I could not believe how well I could see at night. Where does it stop when they start getting many head on crashes and figure out now everything is to bright. Or is it speed at night, the posted speed limits are for driving under perfect conditions during the day not at night, rain, snowing, fog ect....... if you get in a bad accident they go after your phone, the box in the vehicle, time of day, sun location if out, weather conditions, the camera that you installed sometimes its ok other times not ok depends on how good your Lawyer is, like a carry permit for a gun, many tire measurements ect.... you can run but cant hide. Then a court battle and you just hope it wasnt your fault.
I concur with much of what northernlights said.......
My eyes are getting old but I still see OK at night. Most current headlights offer enough light and coverage for me. Approaching high beams don't bother me as long as drivers dim them within reasonable distance. However, some new low beams really bother me when following - especially cresting hills from behind - almost blinding from the mirror at certain angles.. I find a lot of the highly reflective new signs blinding at times too.........or at least excessively bright to be distracting and difficult to see messages/symbols on the sign.
As far as the 2018 G2 changes Joe outlined, not sure how I feel about them. I'm not sold on LED headlights for the reasons (and expense) others have noted. If I need more light, accessory LEDs are an option. Did that on my snowmobile and my son and my brother have added them on their trucks. Work great when you need it. I really don't like the Pilot's push button shifter with the current 9 speed tranny - just weird. For some reason I dislike that much more than the armrests and other things some folks dislike.....but that's just me I guess. I like my current 5 speed fine. I like the 6 speed and AWD system in the new Pilot much better and the 6sp is proven. Comparative testing by one of the automotive mags showed no real mpg advantage from a Pilot 9sp over a Pilot 6sp. Guess I have no real desire for a new tranny with twice as many gears as what I have now.
I hit the "Like" button on Joe's initial post, not because I like LED lights, but because I hoped the change would give cause for any sort of front fascia modification. Any sort.
The topic of overly-bright headlights deserves its own thread!
I think that Joe's list for 2018 changes is mostly a function of things that Honda will NEED to do. Headlights to meet new requirements and the 10sp to close down the 6at chapter and begin the new 10at one. As he has said previously, it isn't practical / possible for them to build both transmissions in volume.
Headlight longevity and replacement expense with LED's might be a concern but you can rest assured that a factory engineered headlight system that has met requirements will put the light on the road where it is designed to be. HID and LED conversions to factory halogen headlights is where most of the issues arise. . .The housing is not designed to match the light output characteristics of the HI/LED light source and the result is also dependent on the competence (or lack there of) of the installer.
Other in cycle changes to the GenII? You want a tougher appearance? You want console armrest? You want a more truck like interior with GenI utility(this is my biggest want!) I think that it will take some distinct criticisms by big name reviewers (like Consumer Reports) and or poor sales for Honda to do anything to the Ridge. Seems to me that it is a bit of a catch 22 (for those who want some changes anyway)as well. If it sells well, Honda will do little but make some minor tweaks. If it sells poorly, they will probably ignore and then kill it.
If sales do REALLY WELL then perhaps they will "expand" the range a bit with a mild "off road" package etc to help continue / expand interest. Of course they would actually have to have the production capacity to keep up with sales volume!
Thanks Joe, please let us know when your insiders tell you they are going to get rid of that DISGUSTINGLY HIDEOUS front-end! I know its based off of the Pilot, (this thing is really a Pilot with a bed, NOT a Ridgeline...), but for some reason it reminds me of a CR-V. I understand they share similar dimensions and styling... Talk about lack of innovation! :act064:
If they put half the time into this project they did into the new Civic, (exceptional vehicle), we'd have one hell of a Ridgeline! This thing is a joke! :act043:
Acura is most likely to get the new ten speed first.
Seems like too many gears to me unless another major change in engine is planned as well.
I'm thinking turbo 4 cylinder like the Mazda CX-9
When I was watching the NSX review on Leno's Garage the an Acura rep was saying the first two gears and the last two gears in the NSX were for acceleration and fuel economy respectively with a 5spd in between.
I like the concept but, my bimmer has an 8spd (which works great btw) but I often wonder if there is a need for all the gears too.
The drivetrain in the bimmer (including the 8spd) was one of the main reasons I bought that suv. In retrospect the Volvo 6spd was just as engaging.
I wonder if I'd regret buying the '17 RL if the '18 had a 10spd. My commute is only 15-20min each way so there likely would be minimal mpg advantages... and the 6spd is proven.
There is an RPM range in which your engine is running most efficiently usually referred to as the power band. It's the RPM range between peak torque and peak horsepower. So you make peak torque at 3k RPM and Peak HP at 6k RPM them your power band is 3-6k RPM.
VVT cams and various ignition cycles help but the more gears the easier it is to keep the engine in that efficiency powerband longer.
So has Nissan for well over a decade. They've got millions and millions of CVT-equipped vehicles running around - more than any other manufacturer. The CVT used in the Maxima could handle the Ridgeline's power.
I believe that the Pathfinder shares the same CVT as the Maxima and it doesn't seem to be faring all that well. Quite a few folks reporting a transmission judder requiring the entire unit to be replaced.
I think my CVT comment was misconstrued. I'm not in favour of a CVT.
Joe was explaining the benefits of the additional gears (6spd vs 10spd) which is exactly what the CVT does.
If I wait for the 2018 RL do you think there will be any 2017 RL's left over if the 10spd execution is below expectations?
I remember feeling that my accord with a 5spd auto was antiquated when all the 6spd auto sedans started hitting the street even though the 5spd worked just fine.
I don't think it's a sure bet that the 2018 RL will have the 10AT. However, there's a good chance we'll get some insight on the 10AT's performance and desirability from Acura/Honda implementing it first in other models (e.g, MDX, Ody, Pilot). What won't be known, though, is long term reliability, and the 6AT has proven itself over the long haul.
Even if the 10-sp is less impressive than expected, there will be Gen2 RL owners trading up just to have it, so unless you absolutely have to have a brand new RL, there should be low-mileage 6-sp Gen2 RLs around to chose from (but probably not cheap).
I think you might be surprised how many people want the latest technology as soon as it's available. And there may be other little tweaks by MY 2018 or 2019 addressing annoying problems inherited from the Pilot. As for the hit to the wallet, if Gen1 depreciation is any indication, the Gen2 will hold its value well. Someone making monthly payments may be able to trade up to a new one with essentially the same monthly payments and an extension of the loan term. Also, more people are leasing these days and trade in after two years because their needs have changed or they just want the newest technology.
84im said, "I can't believe many people would sell their G2 6 speed for a G2 10 speed. That's a bit hit in the wallet for a tranny with a few more gears."
Probably not.
However, if Honda does go to 10sp in 18, many of the 17 buyers will be pissed. Especially if they also tweak things like towing capacity in the process.