Buyers Are Liars: Selling Metal in the Internet Age [5.16.5]

Buyers Are Liars: Selling Metal in the Internet Age (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=105639)

By Philip Reed, Edmunds

Buyers are liars? This comes from car salesmen... some of the lowest scum of the earth. I'll pass on a recent experience.

First off I've purchased about 50 new vehicles over the years. I was management in the auto manufacturing business for about 14 years. I know the business.

I started looking for a Ridgeline. Went to a couple of dealers just test driving and trying to decide if I like the Ridgeline or not. One salesman approached me and said that he was a retired school teacher and doesn't "play games". That sounded good to me. Refreshing in fact... I hate the games car dealers and salesmen play.

This dealer had a Ridgeline RTL with navigation in stock but it was red. I wanted white or silver. Decided to look at the red anyway. The salesman asked what I was driving and I pointed at my MDX. He asked if I was going to trade it in. My reply was no. I don't trade in vehicles. He then went on and on about how he had a customer looking for a like new MDX and blah, blah, and this and that. Unfortunately I was off guard because this guy assured me he didn't play games.

For some strange reason I gave him my keys. He assured me that he would give me a great price on a trade since they had a buyer on the hook.

Next thing I know we're in the little cubicle talking numbers. I figured I could put up with a red Ridgeline if they were going to give me more for my MDX than it was worth. Well the offer came back and was a typical low ball offer. I got up to leave, but per the scumbag car salesman bag of tricks they had my keys. I told the salesman to get my keys.

After a few minutes he came back with a better offer. I asked him to get my keys. He asked the "what is it going to take" line of BS that is typical. I picked up my cell phone and said "I'm dialling 911 and hope to have you arrested when the police get here". He begged me to stop and went and got my keys.

I walked out and headed toward my vehicle. He followed giving me a better offer. I turned and told him that I didn't care if he offered to give me the best deal the world has to offer I would not do business with him. He's nothing but another scumbag car salesman that lied to me about being a straight shooter. He looked perplexed as to why I wouldn't have expected him to be lying about not playing games.

He called me the next day and I told him again that I would not do business with him, or his dealership no matter what. This ex-school teacher wasn't smart enough to understand that I was serious about only doing business with reputable dealers and salespersons.

I wish more people would do the same. This game these dealerships play is archaic and degrading to anyone of intelligence. Do they not understand why the "flat rate" type dealerships are swamped with business and dealing with a salaried salesperson is a joy. There are a few of each brand and they are a joy to deal with.

I guess it's the ignorance in the industry that perpetuates this system that the majority of people hate. I refuse to participate in such a system. I just send out my email and FAX order and wait for a dealer to bite. I will not play their games.

Car dealers and salespersons earn the lowest integrity awards every year. They deserve it. The few dealers and salespersons that "take the high road" unfortunately have to suffer due to the ignorance of their peers.

Here's another one. I responded to a advertisement that said "You can purchase ANY NEW RIDGELINE we have in stock (or inbound) for only $899.00 over invoice! No gimicks, no games!" No need to name the dealer or source.

What does that say? $899 over invoice. When I contacted the dealer I'm informed that the REAL selling price is $899 over invoice, PLUS a $54 "DOC FEE" (read rip-off when you see DOC fees), PLUS $7.50 for some kind of tax.

THAT'S NOT $899 OVER INVOICE, NO GIMMICKS, NO GAMES! It's $960.50 over invoice.

Doesn't matter if the dealer had a cheap price to me. It was false advertising and I won't do business with them. Be HONEST.

The point is not the $61.50... it's the honesty.

Deja vu csimo.
They have made the buyers liars.
Toyota salesman stole my keys after a Tundra test drive.
Went to salaried Honda dealer afterward, for my first test drive of the Ridgeline.
Got the price I wanted and bought same day.
Much better atmosphere.

Agreed. The salesman that sold me my RL lied to me about the price of the bed extender - they are not getting any recommendations from me.

The no dicker, salaried sales person we talked to was a delight and very knowledgeable. However, that dealer had a $500 doc fee and when I asked about it, that was the only time he was evasive.

We did not buy from him and he didn't pursue the sale (I expected that he would make a follow up call).

I stood my ground with the local dealer, but we still got slapped with a $200 doc fee and a stupid "anti-theft" fee because I was on the phone at an inopportune time during the contract process. DH signed everything put in front of him, no questions.

My experience was a bit different. But in the end I won after threatening to get the owner on the phone.

The dealership I went to was the same one I purchased my CRV from. I had a positive experience so I figured I would head back. Well to sweeten the deal this dealership had been advertising that they do not put any "Dealer Mark-ups" on their Honda's. I looked for small print there wasn't any.

So I head in to do a test drive on a Friday. Loved the RL said I would come back on Monday because I wanted to take their show car for a couple of hours w/o a sales guy. Showed up Monday picked up the wife and daughter we drove around and play a bit. LOVED the RL. Went back ready to deal.

I told him RTS and I was paying Invoice + Destination + $75 doc fees (title, registration, blah, blah, blah). The Sales Manager (SM) said well we are marking those up $2000. That's when it got ugly. Fortunately for me there dealership had 5 people wheeling and dealing and at least 3 other groups looking at other vehicle within ear-shot.

I calmly told the SM that I am a returning customer and one of the reasons I came back is because the name sake of the company told me via the idiot box (TV) that he doesn't mark up his Hondas. The SM said, "The other Dealers are marking theirs up $10K!" I replied, "I'm not there am I." Then we got into a discussion on how long he should honor a commerical that no longer airs. I said well at least a week. Needless to say he became more reasonable as he realized the words coming out his mouth were garbage and I had a point, not to mention he had a lot of other customers that were interested in our conversation.

I paid exactly what I told them and I took my RL home the next day after they detailed it.

I hear stories like this all the time. Why can't dealers understand that people don't want to play all their games. Nearly every sales tactic they teach their salespeople is a deceptive tactic.

The few dealers that are honest and strightforward are swamped with buyers. Salaried salespersons, no hidden fees (DOC fees, the magical paint or fabric protectant, etc., $50 pinstripes listed at $200, $50 mudguards at $200, etc.). The problem is that there are very few of these dealers. Why? Becuase the automotive sales business is a tight closed loop. The dealers just recycle the people between them. A guy selling Honda's this week may be selling Toyota's or Chevy's next week. The few good fresh ideas are poisoned by these recyled salespersons.

I've purchased most of my new cars over the Internet the last five years or so. A refreshing experience. I don't ask them for a price, but rather tell 15 - 20 dealers what I'm willing to pay (bottom line price). I just sit back and wait for one to bite. Works great. It's MUCH easier with a Honda or Acura since there are virtually no options per model other than color. You can configure a Ridgeline about 4 ways, but an Avalanche can probably be configured over 175 different ways. That compicates things.

I like to hear these stories. Maybe some dealers will read them and decide to start taking the high road and leave their old deceptive ways behind them.

oh you all are just a bunch of "liars" :D
so anyway, i tried the internet/phone approach, i mean this way i won't have to play there games, i'll be in control :o .............yea ok. the long and short is that i paid sticker but was told they would give me 2000 more for my trade.
i thought, ok, thats fine. so when i go in to sign the paperwork, they did NOT have my trade correct (shocker) and they DID MARK UP THE STICKER 500!!
in the end i did not finance with them, went through c.u. got the 500 knocked off, but never quite got all the 2000 extra on my trade.....got 1000.
i should have walked out and i think thats why they do it. folks like me can be impatient. we are given every oppty in this country to buy what we want as long as we are "financible". so they take advantage of us, they try to have us on our heals from the moment we walk in. they are better at selling than many of us are at buying. they do it everyday, we do it once every few years or longer. i got a fair deal, but not a great deal. and i had to fight for that. unreal. buying a car is the only purchase i know where people are generally upset and defensive. that says much more about the seller than it does the buyer. the dealers have the responsibility to change the process, NOT THE BUYER...........THATS ABSURD. CSMO, I ADMIRE YOU FOR THE WAY YOU HANDLED YOUR SITUATION. WELL DONE I SAY. :cool:

Deleted by Bellteck

so bellteck, you fabricated an offer sheet as a negotiating tool???? wow, you are just too damn smart :cool:

Bellteck, You are giving us buyers a bad name! :D

Deleted by Bellteck

lol....lol......to church you go!!
good points to keep in mind....i managed most but not all. hey, what you did wasn't so bad. i mean you made an offer and they excepted it.
you know....these salespeople have meetings with there people on how to "rope" us im sure.......like with trying to be our "friend", etc....(great point about being a "fridge") they don't concentrate on selling there products, they concentrate on how to get the most money out of us that they can. they suck. i don't think you are in that class........atleast not yet :D .you know, honda should consider factory direct selling, now that would be innovative. :cool:

When my wife got home and I told her what I did she told me I needed to drive that new truck to church. :rolleyes:

You might want to make a list of several denominations and stop and pray at each of them.

Good work. ;)

First got the price quotes on the phone, shopping for almost 3 months. Second went in with no trade. Third told them to remove dealer options as I wouldn't pay for them. Fourth, wrote a check. Best automotive buying experience I ever had by far. :D

Well, we all know that they are out there. The good, the bad and the ugly! I, too, have run into all of them. I do not think that it is fair to call ALL car salesmen and women liars - or worse. My experience with the Honda dealer that I deal with has been a pleasure. I believe that they are a traditonal dealership with salespeople on commission. Since I discovered them, on average, over the past five years I have purchased one Honda per year from them. They do all of the service as well. When I go to purchase a vehicle, I know what my trade is worth if I am trading. They know that they get to make one offer to me, accepted or rejected, there is no second offer and I do not try to haggle a lower price. If they tried a second offer or the key trick even once, I would never go back. They offer a reasonable discount on ordered accessories. I am fair and honest with them about what I know about the condition of my trade. I expect them to make a profit on our transaction as much as I expect them to be there when I go back for another vehicle or for service. Could I have purchased the vehicles at a lower price? Maybe yes, maybe not. Making a purchase of a vehicle is, at least to me, not only about the purchase price. They go out of their way to take care of customers that purchase vehicles from them. Our relationship is based on mutual respect and trust. They earned it by being honest and doing what they say they are going to do. They have earned several national awards from Honda for their exceptional performance.

Three other points:
1) From what I hear from friends and other customers in the showroom or on the street, I am not being treated in any special way or any differently than they have.
2) The dealerships name is Dix Honda in State College, Pennsylvania. My salesperson is Bill Elder.
3) I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Dix Honda other than as any other very satisfied customer.

I have a good friend that owns a Ford dealership. He runs his business the same way as Dix Honda does and I could say many if the same things about him. He, too, is the exception to the generally perceived rule. The last vehicle that I purchased from him was a new Eddie Bauer Explorer. The vehicle turned out to be such and incredible piece of sh#! that it will be a long time before I consider another Ford product. He did everything that he could but it was so far out of his control the we both gave up and I sold it to a mechanic - real cheap - as-is. It was very well maintained, garage kept and no towing. It had two head gasket failures, one transmission failure, every piece of the AC system one at a time fail, body rust through in several locations multiple times while still under warranty, interior falling appart - I could go on and on. My problem was with how Ford handled the problems not in how the dealer handled them. Ford blew me off completely. They have received zero business from me since. Four out of four Explorers in our neighorhood had essentially the same problems.
Sorry about the rant - somebody hit a nerve again!

Well, we all know that they are out there. The good, the bad and the ugly! I, too, have run into all of them. I do not think that it is fair to call ALL car salesmen and women liars - or worse. My experience with the Honda dealer that I deal with has been a pleasure. I believe that they are a traditonal dealership with salespeople on commission. Since I discovered them, on average, over the past five years I have purchased one Honda per year from them. They do all of the service as well. When I go to purchase a vehicle, I know what my trade is worth if I am trading. They know that they get to make one offer to me, accepted or rejected, there is no second offer and I do not try to haggle a lower price. If they tried a second offer or the key trick even once, I would never go back. They offer a reasonable discount on ordered accessories. I am fair and honest with them about what I know about the condition of my trade. I expect them to make a profit on our transaction as much as I expect them to be there when I go back for another vehicle or for service. Could I have purchased the vehicles at a lower price? Maybe yes, maybe not. Making a purchase of a vehicle is, at least to me, not only about the purchase price. They go out of their way to take care of customers that purchase vehicles from them. Our relationship is based on mutual respect and trust. They earned it by being honest and doing what they say they are going to do. They have earned several national awards from Honda for their exceptional performance.

Three other points:
1) From what I hear from friends and other customers in the showroom or on the street, I am not being treated in any special way or any differently than they have.
2) The dealerships name is Dix Honda in State College, Pennsylvania. My salesperson is Bill Elder.
3) I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Dix Honda other than as any other very satisfied customer.

I have a good friend that owns a Ford dealership. He runs his business the same way as Dix Honda does and I could say many if the same things about him. He, too, is the exception to the generally perceived rule. The last vehicle that I purchased from him was a new Eddie Bauer Explorer. The vehicle turned out to be such and incredible piece of sh#! that it will be a long time before I consider another Ford product. He did everything that he could but it was so far out of his control the we both gave up and I sold it to a mechanic - real cheap - as-is. It was very well maintained, garage kept and no towing. It had two head gasket failures, one transmission failure, every piece of the AC system one at a time fail, body rust through in several locations multiple times while still under warranty, interior falling appart - I could go on and on. My problem was with how Ford handled the problems not in how the dealer handled them. Ford blew me off completely. They have received zero business from me since. Four out of four Explorers in our neighorhood had essentially the same problems.
Sorry about the rant - somebody hit a nerve again!

I'm not saying that ALL car dealers are bad, just 99% or so of them. I know nothing about the dealers you mention.

Couple of things though. You said "They have earned several national awards from Honda for their exceptional performance." You know that ALL Honda (and every other brand of dealership) earns awards every year. If they don't win the award, which every dealer is expected to earn, then they have problems with Honda. Bottom line is that 99.5% of all the dealers earn the same awards.

Chrysler did a big thing about dealers earning a 5 Star rating. Now every Chrysler dealer claims to have "achieved this highest award", blah, blah, blah.

You're probably a traditional customer and like the traditional way. That's fine. I'm not, and from the people I talk to not many are happy with the way most car dealerships run.

hog, sounds like youve got ahold of the decent business owners of car dealerships.......definately fortunate but i suspect the way you force them to deal with you also commands there respect to a point....maybe youve got a 9mm in your belt just where they can barely see it as you are talking price with them :D
csimo is right, i am one of those who just rolls my eyes, literally, when i think about dealing with those arrogant, unscrupulous a-holes...........its a beating, a pure beating and most of them don't mask it very well. you can see it in there eyes, on there faces..........its something else, it really is. and so........on behalf of us all....."dear honda, please sell me my next vehicle direct from your factory, i will come get it or pay to have it delivered." ;)

Deleted by Bellteck

Bellteck, "Internet Broker" story is outstanding! You beat em' at their own lies! Take those salesmen to church with you! Wish I would have been that "creative". :D

Bellteck, it was not you that hit a nerve. I should have been more clear. The nerve thing is more about the very sad state that the automobile business is in. I do not feel bad at all for the many dealers that have caused the puiblic to seek alternative means of dealing with them in order to level the playing field. The sleazy unscruplous dealers that created the mess that they are in by their past and present business practices, now have to live with the three-hundred pound gorilla called the internet. It is biting them in the A$$ and they deserve it!
I am very fortunate to have a very credible dealer nearby. If they were not as good as they are I would be aggressively persuing the very same alternative means as you have. I picked up quite a few good tips on this site. Some of the best ones were from you, thank you very much! Unfortunately, I recognize that my future purchases may be made that way. For now, the traditional system works for me and for my local dealer. Believe it or not, although rare these days, it is still possible to find really good people in the automobile business. It is a real pleasure to be able to buy with confidence from a dealer that has demonstrated a very high level of integrity.

Deleted by Bellteck

can anyone recomend a good site too look for invoice prices on the Ridgeline and all the add on and the installation cost.

rfs830,
Hondacura.com and HandA.com are both great sites to find good prices on genuine Honda parts. I took these lists with me and the dealer matched or I didn't buy. You will have to inquire at the dealer what their per hour charge is for doing the installation. Here between 70 and $80 is average. The installations are bid at a certain amount of hours, so you will get them at a flat rate.

The accessories on their showroom Ridge were hidiously overpriced. We would have done none of the mods at those prices. If you don't challenge them, you will be taken to the cleaners for everything they can tack on.

My dealer had the parts and accessory charges rolled up into one number so I insisted they break it down so I could see what they were actually charging for the parts. Ask for a copy of this paperwork. They will not volunteer for you to have it. It's also a good idea to be making your own notes while you talk. One dealer we talked to wrote down a few things to explain the charges, but I left with nothing in writing. We did not buy there.

kbb.com will get you to Kelly's Blue Book and very good tips about car buying. You can look up invoice and also what your trade should be worth. As a result of seeing what they would sell our trade for and the ridiculously low price they offered us, we decided to sell it ourselves.

Good luck and let us know what you experience.

When I was looking for my price on my RTS, I hit about 25 dealer sites looking for the color I wanted. That alone saved a lot of aggravation that would have been caused by having a dealer locate the righ I wanted. After getting quotes from several dealers, it was clear that the lowest anyone would go was invoice plus that mysterious "destination" charge.

I only had to pay a $45 'doc" fee, but they didn't try to nail me with anything else.

I did have one other stealer try to charge me ~$500 over the invoice+destination, but he continued to insist that it was invoice plus destination. He said he was looking right at it. Problem was I was too... :-)

I'm also thinking that there might be some good deals to be had on Ridges out here in SoCal right now. Dealers still have a lot of inventory, and I suspect that they might have been holding back on making deals hoping for a big Memorial Day sales, which didn't happen.

I bought my Ridgeline (steel blue) in late March. I paid under MSRP by going through the Costco referral method. Community Honda of Whittier was awesome to me. I had a very good experience. I was in and out of the dealership in under an hour.

Only one way to buy/trade. Insist on a price "out the door". Let them play all the fee games they like but it is only the bottom line that you are interested in. Works for me. Worked with the Ridgeline RTL S/R.

My experience was a bit different. But in the end I won after threatening to get the owner on the phone.

The dealership I went to was the same one I purchased my CRV from. I had a positive experience so I figured I would head back. Well to sweeten the deal this dealership had been advertising that they do not put any "Dealer Mark-ups" on their Honda's. I looked for small print there wasn't any.

So I head in to do a test drive on a Friday. Loved the RL said I would come back on Monday because I wanted to take their show car for a couple of hours w/o a sales guy. Showed up Monday picked up the wife and daughter we drove around and play a bit. LOVED the RL. Went back ready to deal.

I told him RTS and I was paying Invoice + Destination + $75 doc fees (title, registration, blah, blah, blah). The Sales Manager (SM) said well we are marking those up $2000. That's when it got ugly. Fortunately for me there dealership had 5 people wheeling and dealing and at least 3 other groups looking at other vehicle within ear-shot.

I calmly told the SM that I am a returning customer and one of the reasons I came back is because the name sake of the company told me via the idiot box (TV) that he doesn't mark up his Hondas. The SM said, "The other Dealers are marking theirs up $10K!" I replied, "I'm not there am I." Then we got into a discussion on how long he should honor a commerical that no longer airs. I said well at least a week. Needless to say he became more reasonable as he realized the words coming out his mouth were garbage and I had a point, not to mention he had a lot of other customers that were interested in our conversation.

I paid exactly what I told them and I took my RL home the next day after they detailed it.

Sure.....You Did......... Looked up your deal per your B-day (really shouldn't broadcast that online) Guess what buyers are liars. Are you so pathetic that you have to come on here saying you bought your ridgeline for nearly :eek: 3 grand less than you really did? Does it make you feel like a "BIG" boy? It's your B-day, your green truck and your "got to be a jack" complex that makes buying a vehicle hard for the rest of america. Even if someone does get a "deal" someone else gets shafted. So at least thank you for not shafting someone else :p but you are a liar. kinda sad that you get everyone else's hopes up. We all know the type. tiny little man out to get the big bad salesman from behind his computer miles away from the reality that the salesman could kick your @$$ :D

Sure.....You Did......... Looked up your deal per your B-day (really shouldn't broadcast that online) Guess what buyers are liars. Are you so pathetic that you have to come on here saying you bought your ridgeline for nearly :eek: 3 grand less than you really did? Does it make you feel like a "BIG" boy? It's your B-day, your green truck and your "got to be a jack" complex that makes buying a vehicle hard for the rest of america. Even if someone does get a "deal" someone else gets shafted. So at least thank you for not shafting someone else :p but you are a liar. kinda sad that you get everyone else's hopes up. We all know the type. tiny little man out to get the big bad salesman from behind his computer miles away from the reality that the salesman could kick your @$$ :D

Mayfielh, I would immediately contact the OWNER of the dealership where you purchased your vehicle and ask them about their policies... specifically their privacy policy. I would ask him/her what kind of disciplinary action they intended to take as a result of the above violation.

I believe I would also contact the local police and file a complaint for their investigation. The above post sounds threatening to me... obviously not a stable person.

Posting your birthdate on a forum does not give anyone the right to investigate private contractual information. Public records are a different story, but it sounds like he looked up non-public records.

easy al, you are a fool for doing what you did. If the moderators here don't ban you I will be disappointed. You crossed the line and hopefully you will have to pay for your actions.

Buyers are liars? This comes from car salesmen... some of the lowest scum of the earth. (Some is right. Honda BUYERS are the lowest, they are rude, obnoxious jacks.) I'll pass on a recent experience.

First off I've purchased about 50 new vehicles over the years. I was management in the auto manufacturing business for about 14 years(Here is the real scum sucker, he cheats you and the salesman. shafting everybody and causing you frustration buying a car). I know the business.(Yea Right!, he was a scumsucking cardog himself, but now he's a puritan looking for a witch to hunt.)

I started looking for a Ridgeline. Went to a couple of dealers just test driving (jacking salespeople who are trying to feed their families, how would you like some idiot wasting your time at work and you not get paid) and trying to decide if I like the Ridgeline or not. One salesman approached me and said that he was a retired school teacher and doesn't "play games". ( but you do , don't you) That sounded good to me. Refreshing in fact... I hate the games car dealers and salesmen play. (guarantee this guy lives for it. otherwise he wouldn't be on here proclaming how great of a negotiator he is)

This dealer had a Ridgeline RTL with navigation in stock but it was red. I wanted white or silver. Decided to look at the red anyway.(He's a mooch) The salesman asked what I was driving and I pointed at my MDX. He asked if I was going to trade it in. My reply was no. I don't trade in vehicles. He then went on and on about how he had a customer looking for a like new MDX and blah, blah, and this and that. Unfortunately I was off guard (You're at a dealership negotiating for a car, your a self proclaimed expert lowball ridgeline buying negotiator, but you're off guard 'cause he said he didn't play games? Yea, right Jack!) because this guy assured me he didn't play games.

For some strange reason I gave him my keys(Oh No, The salesman must have slipped him a mickey, or worse....Hypnosis and/or mind control). He assured me that he would give me a great price on a trade since they had a buyer on the hook. (on the hook? the salesman said this to you?)

Next thing I know we're in the little cubicle talking numbers (must have been qualudes that they gave him) I figured I could put up with a red Ridgeline if they were going to give me more for my MDX than it was worth. Well the offer came back and was a typical low ball offer. I got up to leave, but per the scumbag ( who's the scumbag?) car salesman bag of tricks ( you're just so innocent aren't you.....) they had my keys. I told the salesman to get my keys.

After a few minutes he came back with a better offer. I asked him to get my keys. He asked the "what is it going to take" line of BS (doesn't BS mean Be Satisfied? :) ) that is typical. I picked up my cell phone and said "I'm dialling 911 and hope to have you arrested when the police get here". He begged me to stop and went and got my keys (Now, Who is trying to intimidate who? tell the truth, you never even asked for your keys, you just read that this is a good strategy in one of those $.50 mags at the grocery store)

I walked out and headed toward my vehicle. He followed giving me a better offer. ( probably telling you to get the "f" off the lot, you psycho) I turned and told him that I didn't care if he offered to give me the best deal the world has to offer I would not do business with him(Yea right, you're not going to buy if they'll sale for 20 grand off?). I'm nothing but another scumbag car buyer that lied to me about being a straight shooter. He looked perplexed as to why he wouldn't have expected me to be lying about playing games.

He called me the next day and I told him again that I would not do business with him, or his dealership no matter what. This ex-school teacher wasn't smart enough (But you are, aren't you.)to understand that I was serious about only doing business with reputable dealers and salespersons.

I wish more people would do the same. This game these dealerships play is archaic and degrading to anyone of intelligence( Is your I.Q above 30?). Do they not understand why the "flat rate" type dealerships are swamped with business and dealing with a salaried salesperson is a joy. There are a few of each brand and they are a joy to deal with. joy joy joy :confused: :confused: :confused:

I guess it's the ignorance in the industry (or you )that perpetuates this system that the majority of people hate. I refuse to participate in such a system. I just send out my email and FAX order and wait for a dealer to bite. I will not play their games.

Car dealers and salespersons earn the lowest integrity awards every year ( good thing they don't give awards for buyers, I'm sure you'd get a big fat smelly award). They deserve it. The few dealers and salespersons that "take the high road" unfortunately have to suffer due to the ignorance of their peers.(hmmmmmmm....... DITTO!)

Buyers tickle me. They are liars with more bull sh!+ than any salesperson could ever dish out. You, not the "salesmen" are the scum of the earth. You are the one's who are rude, obnoxious, smelly, drunk, demanding and beligerent. You are the one's who go to a dealership thinking you're buying a slave, not a car and that someone should give it to you because you've honored them with your presence. It's a car stupid. I don't know of very many car salespeople who actually make more than 2000 per month or work less than 60 hours per week come in if you decide when and if you need them ( and 90% of the time you get there and they're not buying, just looking, so what if the only day off you've had for 2 weeks was spent showing a car to a jack and not with your family) and they still have to take crap from demanding jerks like YOU! JACK!

Easy Al, you're a salesguy? I wouldn't buy from you. I think Honda salespeople have it easy...the car sells itself.

easy al,

If you really work for the dealer that sold mayfielh his vehicle, even if what you say is accurate, if I was the owner or worked for HOA, I would fire your butt in a New York Minute after posting what you did on a public forum. Since you had the ability to look up his sale, you are not as anonymous as you may like to be right now. You certainly have the right to your opinion but when dealing with the public, sometimes the hardest lesson for new sales "professionals' to learn is when to hold your tongue. Arguing with, much less attacking, a customer is a battle that you can never win - even if you are right. Your comments are, at the very least, embarassing, childish and certainly inappropriate for this forum. If you have an issue with mayfielh and have the ability to look up his sale, call him privately and have an adult conversation with him. Frankly, I hope that your comments do get back to the owner of the dealership and HOA so that you can be held accountable for your actions here today. I do not know mayfileh and have no interest whatsoever in your dispute. I simply do not appreciate the tone of your remarks in this environment.

Buyers tickle me. They are liars with more bull sh!+ than any salesperson could ever dish out. You, not the "salesmen" are the scum of the earth. You are the one's who are rude, obnoxious, smelly, drunk, demanding and beligerent. You are the one's who go to a dealership thinking you're buying a slave, not a car and that someone should give it to you because you've honored them with your presence. It's a car stupid. I don't know of very many car salespeople who actually make more than 2000 per month or work less than 60 hours per week come in if you decide when and if you need them ( and 90% of the time you get there and they're not buying, just looking, so what if the only day off you've had for 2 weeks was spent showing a car to a jack and not with your family) and they still have to take crap from demanding jerks like YOU! JACK!

At first I thought you might really be a car salesman with a chip on his/her shoulder. I think I was wrong. You're just some kid trying to get everyone worked up. Guess it makes you feel big?

I'm not biting... sorry.

Mayfielh, I would immediately contact the OWNER of the dealership where you purchased your vehicle and ask them about their policies... specifically their privacy policy. I would ask him/her what kind of disciplinary action they intended to take as a result of the above violation.

I believe I would also contact the local police and file a complaint for their investigation. The above post sounds threatening to me... obviously not a stable person.

Posting your birthdate on a forum does not give anyone the right to investigate private contractual information. Public records are a different story, but it sounds like he looked up non-public records.

easy al, you are a fool for doing what you did. If the moderators here don't ban you I will be disappointed. You crossed the line and hopefully you will have to pay for your actions.

Csimo, You, my friend are an IDIOT Thanks for taking the bait. You are the perfect example of Buyer that are liars and are out to make someone elses life a living hell. Why can't you idiots just be truthful. There are a lot of nice people out there trying to make you happy, but you jerk them around. It's not the salespeople anymore, it's the Dealer and the customer. The salesperson is cought in the middle.
By the way.
1.I don't work for a car dealership, so it's gonna be hard for any displinary action to be taken.
2. I lied(well... Bluffed....buyers are liars aren't they) I don't have access to any database to look anything up.
3. Did want to bring to your attention..... Posting personal info on the internet is looking for trouble.
4. Unstable? me LOL I'm actually one of the most passive people you'd ever meet.
5. A good friend of mine lost his job the other day because of people like you. people like you are always trying to screw with good people.
6. "quote" "The above post sounds threatening to me " threatening? the only thing theatened is your little egos. What about some of the post you people make about salespeople? that isn't threatning? Why don't you come down off your perch and quit lying. If a salesperson did the things you guys say, their customer satisfaction rating would be so low they would be fired anyway. Honda gauges allocation and dealer bonuses from satisfaction ratings. If you have a beef why don't you just take it up with Honda. I think it is because it's not legitimate.
7. You can dish it out but you sure can't take it can you?

Easy al,

Please, do yourself and everyone else a favor. It is not worth the stress that you are living with. Clearly, you are in the wrong line of work. With the amount of anger and frustration that you obviously have, take a deep breath, take another one, relax, calm down, take a few steps back and look at what you are doing and where you are. Make the right decision and resign, now, before it kills you. There are other things that you can do in life. This one is not working for you. The automobile business has changed, not necessarily for the better for anyone, largely due to past and present parctices by the retail automobile dealers. We would not be in this mess if it were not for the tactics used on the buying public by many, but not all, car dealers and sales people.
Good luck.

WOW.......its simply a matter of trust. i don't know how the process of buying
a car became such an issue. i remember reading a post by ultrahog i think it was, anyway, he stated that he does not go to the dealer to quibble. he expects them to make a profit. and i say bingo. my concern is my trade value if i have a trade. i have never asked anyone to take a dime off the sticker, maybe im stupid. but i figure as long as the financing is appropriate and my trade is resepctful, then all is well. there certainly is a trust issue and its a shame because it really "dirties" the process. buying a car should be fun, not work.

This was just a little wake up call. Like I said, I don't work for any dealership. I did resign about a year ago. I don't know mayfielh or his truck.

***At first I thought you might really be a car salesman with a chip on his/her shoulder. I think I was wrong. You're just some kid trying to get everyone worked up. Guess it makes you feel big?

I'm not biting... sorry.*****

Sorry, but yes I did want to get everyone worked up. Just wanted everyone to know what it was like to be on the other side of the fence. I just bought my ridgeline about a month ago.
Salepeople are not the bad guys anymore....
most are school teachers and other professionals. dealers don't want " salesmen" anymore they want sheep they can rip off. don't blame the ex school teacher. he was only doing what he had to to feed his family, blame the dealer and the managers. they are the one's who held your keys etc. the salesperson has no more control than a cricket in your hand. be nice to them and they'll be nice to you. the scum sucking dealers, closers and managers are the real people you need to look out for.

I find it really quite simple and a whole heck of a lot less stressful for everyone than all the crap that is going on here. You tell the salesperson what your ground rules are up front. In my case it is that I will only accept their first offer as their final offer - accepted or rejected, thank you very much. I also tell them up front that I will not try to negotiate beyond their offer for a better deal and that I expect them to make a reasonable profit. It is what it is, period. Any second offer will result in no sale and a permanently lost customer. If they can live with my terms then we proceede. If not, I move on to another dealer. If I am trading, I also have a reasonably good idea what my trade is worth. I also tell them what I know about the condition of my trade. Once all that is out of the way in the first few minutes, the rest is easy. At that point, since the haggling and games are off the table, we should both be more or less on the same side, looking for just the right vehicle and to complete a mutually satisfactory transaction. There are a few dealers in this town that have tried to work around my rules and I have not considered them in years. It will be a long time before I consider doing so again. I have established relationships with a few dealers in the area based on mutual respect and trust. It works here for me. I recognize that I am fortunate to have been able to do so and, sadly, that it will not necessarily work for everyone elsewhere.

Buying a car is your second biggest investment in life you will make. It takes time and thought and focuses on your needs and style.

As many of you know, I work for a dealer and for AHM. I purchased the first Ridgeline that came off the truck. I told them what I wanted on it and when they were done, waited for them to put the sticker on the window telling me what they were selling it to the public for. I knew MSRP as everyone else did and I did not add up the accessories before hand. I looked at the vehicle, drove it to the better half, took it back to my dealership and said wrap it up. I paid sticker. I knew what I wanted and got just that. Most of our customers who walk through our doors are much the same. ( I was my own salesperson and I have to say I treated myself very well. :D )

I know that I am the exception to a buying experience, however, I see people in and out of our dealership daily and what easy al described here about the buyers is completely inaccurate. Yes, we do have the occasional stinker walk through the doors thinking they rule the world. But by the time our sales staff has greeted them after they have sought out assistance in the purchasing process from us, they typically change their tune. ( we wait for the customer to come to us, we DO NOT approach the customer ) Rick Case has a reputation of caring for their customer and making their needs first. I can honestly tell you that I have never seen a buyer, as easy al has described, in our dealership. I am proud to work with the group of people I work with and as part of my job, I constantly monitor their process in selling. ( unknowingly to them ) Our buyers become part of the family and we have a mutual respect.

As a member of this forum, should you have constructive opinions you can share without making the good people here feel like they were violated, then you are welcome, otherwise I think you need to take your hostility elsewhere.

AMEN Ladyridge!Thank you! I will bet the farm that if I walked into Rick Case Honda for the first time and had my two minute opening conversation with any of their salespeople, their response would be that what I am requesting from them is, in essence, naturally the way that they conduct business. Our mutual needs would dovetail perfectly and we would be on the way to a long term relationship. I do indeed believe that there still are some very good people working very hard at some very good dealerships. It is really not all that difficult to sort them out. If you enjoy the adventure of sparing with those other kinds of dealers, do it soon as they are dinosaurs and that kind of problem will take care of itself. The internet is their iceage. The traditional credible dealers have little to fear from the internet and can use it to suplement their business if they adapt and adjust. The dealership decides how they choose to conduct business. The customer decides who they will do business with.

AMEN Ladyridge!Thank you! I will bet the farm that if I walked into Rick Case Honda for the first time and had my two minute opening conversation with any of their salespeople, their response would be that what I am requesting from them is, in essence, naturally the way that they conduct business. Our mutual needs would dovetail perfectly and we would be on the way to a long term relationship. I do indeed believe that there still are some very good people working very hard at some very good dealerships. It is really not all that difficult to sort them out. If you enjoy the adventure of sparing with those other kinds of dealers, do it soon as they are dinosaurs and that kind of problem will take care of itself. The internet is their iceage. The traditional credible dealers have little to fear from the internet and can use it to suplement their business if they adapt and adjust. The dealership decides how they choose to conduct business. The customer decides who they will do business with.
excellent points...........well said.

I was very excited and anxious when I ordered my RL in March. I put a down payment of $500 and the trade in value offered was $300.00 below the blue book. My truck came in two weeks later. I wanted to have a tonneau cover; his reply "we don't have them yet, it's not priced yet etc." I went to the parts dept later and was told they had one in stock and would I like to buy it and gave me the price. I went back to my salesman next door and gave him this info and he added the cover to my order. Another one was, I wanted the running boards, and when I saw my baby for the first time, there were aluminum steps installed!!! So, I waited another week for the running boards. Then when I handed him a promisory note for $28,000.00 from PFCU Credit Union, he looked at it and said "oh, I don't know if we can take this". He went to his manager and came back 10 min later and sat down and continued writing the order. Since he did'nt say anything, I finally had to ask him if the check was ok! Two days later AH called me and asked me how my experience was, and I told her how it was. The next night at around 8 pm, my sales person called me at home and wanted to know why I gave a negative feed back. I almost hung up, but felt I had to let him know what gave me the negs. No matter, I love my baby, and have had numerous thumbs up from folks on the road and shopping malls. :)

Just guessing, but it sounds like you had a very inexperienced salesperson that was unfamiliar with a lot of things. He sounds like he was out of touch with the concept of communication and how to provide a positive buying experience for you. It could be inexperience, lack of propper training, or simply a bad attitude.

The kindest thing that you did for him was to do exactly what you did do. Being honest in your evaluation is not being mean it is actually being very helpful, especially if he is inexperienced. If your evaluation was presented to him in a positive learning environment, you really did him a big favor. Unfortunately, if his ego or a bad attitude consumes him he may slip further away and fall into the abyss of the dark side of his chosen profession. Hopefully he will learn from his mistakes.

Since you purchased your Ridgeline in March, how has the service and the relationship with the dealer and the salesperson been? Has the salesperson said thank you for helping him or has he ignored you? Therein lies the proof of what kind of dealership and what kind of individual you have been dealing with.

Thanks for kind words Ultra-hog. No one has contacted me from the dealership for any reason. I dropped off my baby this morning for the windshield reseal. I was provided a loaner rental from Enterprise. I have had reservations about them (glass techs) popping my glass for the reason, that it no longer is a factory installed item.

The sales person was definetely inexperienced. My wife and I spent 3 1/2 hours at his office to close the deal. He was constantly checking with someone in the office. Lastly, I was the very first customer to purchase an RL from their dealership!

Take this from a guy that was in the Car Biz for years ...

I do not defend just explain the pressure of car sales..

Typical Monday morning meeting... SM quote " Ok boys we have 9 salesman in here and a slow month going.... the bottom two in sales at the end of this week will not be here next Monday, I reccomend you guys hit the lot.

So yes you can make good money six figures if your good but you work your rear end off. Twelve hours a day is common and you always get to work Saturday. The product drives everything, if it is hot you have some control, simply the dealer does not discount the MSRP . I have seen celebrities namely Pro football players haggle worse than you can imagine trying to get under MSRP and you know what this guys makes its on the net. I had one not naming names say I know what the invoice is i pulled it off the internet we in turn said yep and we got your salary there too and trust me no one in this place makes half 20 percent of what your knocking down. He just smiles and walks out.

Here is the low down if you want to buy a car cheap...

#1 Use the phone and deal only with the Fleet or SM.
#2 Wait on the buy if the market is hot and you dont want to pay MSRP shop another brand dont fall in love with a make and model.
#3 Ask for all incentives from the maker and dealer on the phone ask to have them fax you an ivoice and say you do not want a sales person on your deal you will handle it all by fax.
#4 Price your car (trade )somewhere else Auto Nation , auction or retail out of it yourself. Know what its worth and dont take less just sell it yourself.
#5. Wait untill the deal comes to you. They will call you back and they will deal when the have one to sell and you wil get it at invoice plus incentives if the market allows it. The auto market and economy are in such sad shape easy sales for dealers are very short and most will make the easy sale on the phone if you wait.
#6. Wait a litttle longer .
#7 Use the net to get offers from Internet Managers they will work as well as SM or fleet and are often the same person.
#8 Know your credit score and arrange for fianancing ahead of time from another source to use as a backup or a number they have to match.
#9 Know the model with all options prices ect and be prepared to write the check on the spot if you give you what your ask for.
#10 Smile and have a good time, relax and remember that if you cannot get what you want right then its only a matter of time in this market that you will be able to get the buy you want.

#11 Its fair to pay 500 over invoice but I would not personally pay any more after all you will have to sell or trade it off at some point. If the dealer cant live with 500 over than he needs to sell more cars and or trim the fat.

Take this from a guy that was in the Car Biz for years ...

I do not defend just explain the pressure of car sales..

Typical Monday morning meeting... SM quote " Ok boys we have 9 salesman in here and a slow month going.... the bottom two in sales at the end of this week will not be here next Monday, I reccomend you guys hit the lot.

So yes you can make good money six figures if your good but you work your rear end off. Twelve hours a day is common and you always get to work Saturday. The product drives everything, if it is hot you have some control, simply the dealer does not discount the MSRP . I have seen celebrities namely Pro football players haggle worse than you can imagine trying to get under MSRP and you know what this guys makes its on the net. I had one not naming names say I know what the invoice is i pulled it off the internet we in turn said yep and we got your salary there too and trust me no one in this place makes half 20 percent of what your knocking down. He just smiles and walks out.

Here is the low down if you want to buy a car cheap...

#1 Use the phone and deal only with the Fleet or SM.
#2 Wait on the buy if the market is hot and you dont want to pay MSRP shop another brand dont fall in love with a make and model.
#3 Ask for all incentives from the maker and dealer on the phone ask to have them fax you an ivoice and say you do not want a sales person on your deal you will handle it all by fax.
#4 Price your car (trade )somewhere else Auto Nation , auction or retail out of it yourself. Know what its worth and dont take less just sell it yourself.
#5. Wait untill the deal comes to you. They will call you back and they will deal when the have one to sell and you wil get it at invoice plus incentives if the market allows it. The auto market and economy are in such sad shape easy sales for dealers are very short and most will make the easy sale on the phone if you wait.
#6. Wait a litttle longer .
#7 Use the net to get offers from Internet Managers they will work as well as SM or fleet and are often the same person.
#8 Know your credit score and arrange for fianancing ahead of time from another source to use as a backup or a number they have to match.
#9 Know the model with all options prices ect and be prepared to write the check on the spot if you give you what your ask for.
#10 Smile and have a good time, relax and remember that if you cannot get what you want right then its only a matter of time in this market that you will be able to get the buy you want.

#11 Its fair to pay 500 over invoice but I would not personally pay any more after all you will have to sell or trade it off at some point. If the dealer cant live with 500 over than he needs to sell more cars and or trim the fat.

Allow me to humbly add...
#12 Wait until close to the end of the month. :D

I can personally say Rick Case is the exception to most dealerships having bought several automobiles from them and dealing with a lemon case. I consider myself a tough sale but that does not mean that I am rude to salespeople. If I find salespeople are playing the game, I can play right back and even have fun with it. Easy al is a smoke blower and just here to get a rise out of everyone. If you think that im going to buy your poor me and school teacher story then you have another thing coming. I dont have a problem with a dealer making a profit its how much of a profit that is the question. There's some people that will let the humping dog on your leg go, im not one of them !!

Its a ruthless business to be in on the sales side and anyone that takes the job has to know what he or she is walking in to. Like they have never bought a car before or even in training. 90% of the negotiation is done with the sales manager anyway unless someone rolls over and agree's to pay sticker. Even the trade in is done with the used car manager as to the price and inventory of certain vehicles and how much they will pay. The game is put in play when you set an offer and they try to bump it up or do the ever so popular meet me in the middle, my last sale was the ONLY sale I have ever made where they agree'd to my first price no questions asked. Bottom line, if you feel the deal is a good one then that's all that mattes when buying your automobile. :cool:

The dealership I bought my RL from advertises "Our Sales people are salaried" which implies they do not earn commission. Is this for real? Also, my sales guy would not deal because it is their policy to sell "one low price to everyone!!" which is the MSRP, nothing more nothing less. Also, if your are a return buyer, you get a 200.00 discount on your next vehicle. One last thing they do, the automatically extend Honda warranty from 36/36000 to 48/48000. Any comments? :(

The dealership I bought my RL from advertises "Our Sales people are salaried" which implies they do not earn commission. Is this for real? Also, my sales guy would not deal because it is their policy to sell "one low price to everyone!!" which is the MSRP, nothing more nothing less. Also, if your are a return buyer, you get a 200.00 discount on your next vehicle. One last thing they do, the automatically extend Honda warranty from 36/ 36,000 to 48/48000. Any comments? :(

It is RARE if a dealership is salary but possible. I know of 1.

Can't comment on the "one low price for everyone" but it doesn't sound valid to me.

At Rick Case, you will get $1,000 off the purchase of your next vehicle if you complete up to a certain point of maintenances with our dealership.

They can give you a warranty from the dealership. Get it in writing. They can not extend the manufactures warranty that I am aware of. We give 36/36,000 factory warranty then at this time we are running a special where all new cars get 10/100,000 power train warranty which is dealer specific.

I hope I helped answer some questions.

I do have their extended warranty in writing. I also get the first 3 oil and filter changes free, and the first ding repair free. Is Manchester Honda, CT the one you are referring to that does not earn commission? I imagine bonuses are given at the end of the year. ;)

I walked out of the Bob Casuli Auto Group in Toms River, NJ. That was the worst car buying experience ever. They had advertised to beat any price on the same model, but what they do is put on their own pinstripping on everyone of their vehicles. Now, it is not the same as the competitors because it has a delaer installed item, (BTW, the first thing that I told them was "Why would you ruin the truck with that cheap pinstripe?)

I will never set foot in their place, I am buying elsewhere (I may drive throught the lot with my new truck and a sign saying "I Wouldn't by @#$# from Bob Casuli."

You are the personification of "What goes around, comes around". I hope that you have license plate frames and signs from your selling dealer on your truck when you drive up to Bob Casuli. I would love to see their faces and hear their comments to each other if you were to park out front. They just dont get it, do they? Eventually that problem will take care of itself.

That sounds like a pretty sleazy trick to me.

thats the kind of nonsense that makes buyers distrust the dealers, salespeople, etc............just another example of how the dealers are responsible for the generally poor relationship between dealers and buyers. :mad:

The dealership decides how they choose to conduct business. The customer decides who they will do business with.

I realize that this thread has not been used in a while but I feel that I have to reply. I am a Honda Salesperson, I have been for over 8 years. I am sure that there are way more "typical" salespeople than there are exceptional salespeople. We (SALESPEOPLE) do this for a living. I sell as a profession, not just a job. I pride myself in having massive repeat and referral business, because of the way I treat my customers before and after the sale. So please do not generalize all salespeople into the same categories. I treat my customers the way I do because I want them to come back and buy more cars and refer their family and friends. And as far as I know almost all car salepeople are commision only, there may be a few exceptions, but even all the internet and fleet salespeople I know are ALL commision sales only. And really, can anyone tell me truthfully that they did not lie at all to their salesperson (ie: I have perfect credit, the other dealer was going to give me more for my trade, I saw it cheaper somewhere else, etc). There are not a lot of posts on this subject compared to the amount of members we have, so I would like to hear of some of the GOOD or GREAT buying experiences and see how many of those we have. Sorry about the long winded msg, but I take my profession very seriously, as I am sure all of you do to and I know you would also stand up for your profession, yes even you lawyers, ha ha just joking.

Now you are generalizing. I did not lie to my sales lady. My credit is perfect and I did respect her afterwards. :p