Top Tier gas?

I never knew... I guess it's shell for me (it's the only one on the list that is in my area)
http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html#

If top tier gasoline is not always available... do you think fuel injection cleaners can help with the deposits you'll be getting with lesser gasolines?

The TopTier Gas website is run by QuikTrip Corporation who own, you guessed it, Gas Stations. Beware the marketing ploy. Although, I will say that it's a pleasant surprise to see a Gas Station chain debunk Premium gas - http://www.quiktrip.com/gasoline/myth.asp
So maybe they're not all bad.

I'd hate to burst anyones bubble but I live about ten minuets away from a heating oil and gasoline tank farm. On any given day you will see most major brand gas trucks filling up there plus many of the local carriers that you see at the stations. God ony\ly knows whats in those tanks.

The TopTier Gas website is run by QuikTrip Corporation who own, you guessed it, Gas Stations. Beware the marketing ploy. Although, I will say that it's a pleasant surprise to see a Gas Station chain debunk Premium gas - http://www.quiktrip.com/gasoline/myth.asp
So maybe they're not all bad.
A friend of mine is a Conoco retailer. He told me about "top tier" quite some time ago. I didn't really hold much stock in it until I started charting my mileage. I feel there is quantitative evidence to support a better gas mileage claim. The charting also revealed that premium does not lead to increased gas mileage.

It could be, however, that the real distinction is E-10. None of those top tier grades have E-10 and, as far as I'm concerned, I have demonstrated quantitatively that E-10 has a very negative impact on mileage. I wish it wasn't so, out here in farm country with ethanol plants a hot item. :( And what's good for agriculture is good for everyone.

As a side note, I'm working on two biodiesel sites that are about to be constructed. One is a soy bean oil plant (large) and the other is a yellow fat plant (small). Looks like there might be an '09 Accord in my future. :)

A friend of mine is a Conoco retailer. He told me about "top tier" quite some time ago. I didn't really hold much stock in it until I started charting my mileage. I feel there is quantitative evidence to support a better gas mileage claim. The charting also revealed that premium does not lead to increased gas mileage.

It could be, however, that the real distinction is E-10. None of those top tier grades have E-10 and, as far as I'm concerned, I have demonstrated quantitatively that E-10 has a very negative impact on mileage. I wish it wasn't so, out here in farm country with ethanol plants a hot item. :( And what's good for agriculture is good for everyone.

As a side note, I'm working on two biodiesel sites that are about to be constructed. One is a soy bean oil plant (large) and the other is a yellow fat plant (small). Looks like there might be an '09 Accord in my future. :)

Hey geotech.....right now I am about 100 miles into my first tank of premium......I thought that I would try a tank and see what happens.......I wish I would have seen your post sooner.....thanks for the info and the link.....

I can say this with 100% confidence, I ran only chevron and mobil in my ranger from 94 to 06 and I NEVER had to clean the injectors or tune for smog. When I inquired about this, I was told they are the cleanest fuels on the market.

I can say this with 100% confidence, I ran only chevron and mobil in my ranger from 94 to 06 and I NEVER had to clean the injectors or tune for smog. When I inquired about this, I was told they are the cleanest fuels on the market.

With mobile it must vary by area... I know they buy from the docks... I'll never go back cause by me, one tank you can get 18/19 city... next tank 15 with the same driving conditions..BP /Amoco used to have quality control & good gas in my area... they all closed up now:mad:

I'd hate to burst anyones bubble but I live about ten minuets away from a heating oil and gasoline tank farm. On any given day you will see most major brand gas trucks filling up there plus many of the local carriers that you see at the stations. God ony\ly knows whats in those tanks.
You're spot on. The Majors all refine for each other and also sell on the open market. The "difference" i.e. additives, is usually added at the distribution point, and nowhere in the refining process. I was raised in Milford Haven, the UK's largest oil terminal with at the time 5 major brand oil refineries in the harbour (it's down to 2 now), and we would often see tankers from one brand moored at the others jetty. My father worked for one of the refineries - Amoco - and they were producing low sulfur diesel for Texaco, BP and Esso (Exxon). What you buy at the pump is usually not what it seems.

This is a subject that has always interested me and I have tried to educate myself as much as possible. I've done a lot of reading about "Top Tier" gas and the claims that each brand of gas has its own additives.

When I was growing up during the 50's my father would use only Amoco "white gas" and when I owned my first vehicle (1950 Ford) I used nothing but Amoco. I've used Amoco/BP for many years. However, it now seems Amoco/BP is about the most expensive gas in my area and many of their stations have closed.

Recently, I switched to Shell regular. Can't really say that I have noticed a difference in performance or mpg between it and any of the gas I have used.

Most of what I've read on ROC and other sites indicate that additives are added at the distribution point. If five major brand gas companies are loading their tanker trucks at the same distribution point, when do the "Shell" specific additives get added? I'm just trying to figure this out for my own edification.
Are all the gas companies ripping us off by advertising that their gas is better at reducing engine build up and eliminating hesitation, and so on?

Well guys this is why I use a can or bottle of BG44K Fuel Treatment every 5,000 to 7,500 miles. Now Honda claims we don't need fuel additives but dealers sell & use BG44K. I have got it from ACURA, DODGE ,FORD. BENZ CHEVY & HONDA dealerships. Our local auto guru that has his weekly TV show & 4hr radio show always swears by it. He is also seen on the National & International TV show Motor Week as their resident auto tech PAt GOSS.
I also buy the BG44K Fuel Treatment from his shop when I take my ACURA in for service sometime there. He said one time on one his shows that the gas additves in the gasoline are not enough. This is why he recomends the BG44K every 5,000 miles. But has anyone had their Ridgeline serviced at the Honda dealership & been charged for the BG44K or FUEL TREAT it may say on your invoice? This may be on a 15,000 or 30,000 mile service interval. I know my ACURA dealer does it so most others might also. I have used SHEETS & WAWA premium gas in the 3.2 TL since I got it over 7yrs ago. I have put other major brands but mostly SHEETS or WAWA. The Ridgeline also gets the same but the lower octane. with over 6,000 miles on the Ridgeline I am going to get a bottle of BG44K soon, Also if you buy some I was told the best way to use it is to let the tank get near empty put it in then fill-up. But you also want it to stay in awhile when you drive so don't put it in then go on a long road trip that uses that gas in one shot.

The TopTier Gas website is run by QuikTrip Corporation who own, you guessed it, Gas Stations. Beware the marketing ploy. Although, I will say that it's a pleasant surprise to see a Gas Station chain debunk Premium gas - http://www.quiktrip.com/gasoline/myth.asp
So maybe they're not all bad.

QT is a oklahoma company that is expanding. They don't have a huge presence anywhere but here. If you have every been to a QT you are throughly impressed. Very clean and nice. I try to use only QT gas. QT uses they gas to get in the door of their stores. Thats where they make their money. All in all QT
is a very trustworthy company.

Perhaps the discussion should be about bottom tier gas. By charting my useage, I think I have a feel for what gas to avoid, rather than which ones to buy. Due my travelling, I can not always pick where I fill. I avoid several local convienence stores in my parts, including Casey's and Kwik Shop (part of the Dillon's/Kroeger chain).

Some places are consistently poor while others are consistently better. Sam's Club, of instance, is always a crap shoot (psycho gas), supporting the posts of Lingered_I and others concerning the unknown true source of the product and what was added (or not added) by the retailer.

The TopTier Gas website is run by QuikTrip Corporation who own, you guessed it, Gas Stations. Beware the marketing ploy. Although, I will say that it's a pleasant surprise to see a Gas Station chain debunk Premium gas - http://www.quiktrip.com/gasoline/myth.asp
So maybe they're not all bad.
This was reviewed in car and driver last year. They claimed it was all correct!

... When I was growing up during the 50's my father would use only Amoco "white gas" and when I owned my first vehicle (1950 Ford) I used nothing but Amoco. I've used Amoco/BP for many years. However, it now seems Amoco/BP is about the most expensive gas in my area and many of their stations have closed...


Back then, and in the 60's as well, we'd fill our Coleman lanterns (with mantles) with this "white gas" from the Amoco pump. I don't know about now, but then it was alot less expensive than buying the Coleman fluid in the can, and it worked just fine with the regular lantern's generator/pump.

The only stations I avoid are the Sheetz convenience stores we have in Western PA. I was told years ago by a tanker driver that gas that was meant for consumption in OHIO was being brought across the state line for sale in the Sheetz stations here. It was supposedly 86 octane being dispensed at the 87 pump.
Can anyone in OHIO tell me if 86 is still sold there?

Back then, and in the 60's as well, we'd fill our Coleman lanterns (with mantles) with this "white gas" from the Amoco pump. I don't know about now, but then it was alot less expensive than buying the Coleman fluid in the can, and it worked just fine with the regular lantern's generator/pump.

The only stations I avoid are the Sheetz convenience stores we have in Western PA. I was told years ago by a tanker driver that gas that was meant for consumption in OHIO was being brought across the state line for sale in the Sheetz stations here. It was supposedly 86 octane being dispensed at the 87 pump.
Can anyone in OHIO tell me if 86 is still sold there? I don't know about your Sheetz but down in Southern Maryland they rule along with WaWa. I don't even get gas in DC with my car anymore unless its real low.
When I go down to Southern Maryland about 60 miles from DC I fill up. But the Sheetz have 22 plus gas pumps.The Major name brand gas station just about have all gone they can't compete with Sheetz & WaWa. This area is around a large Military Naval Air Station (PAX RIVER) with alot of traffic. The Sheetz gas is okay I have used it in my 3.2 TL for 7yrs over 80,000 miles. That car was brand new when I got it. The Ridgeline has over 6,000 & burns Sheetz or Wawa mainly. We also have old 89 Buick that runs on it. Before the 93 Dodge Caravan was wrecked it burned Sheetz for about 60,000 miles after my sister moved to that area. Just about everybody in this area uses one or the other. They have 3 large Sheetz station placed about then 3 miles of the other. The 2 WaWa stations are about 3 miles apart on the same road. They all are full of cars depending on the time of day or night. If it was bad gas many people would have had problems here. I was skeptical also about the gas when I got my car but it runs fine.All the car have had the BG44K added at sometime. The BG44K POWER ENHANCER is part of their Total Deposit Control. at $22 to $25 a can or bottle this is not like the stuff you buy from Auto Stores. BG44K is sold at many dealerships & independent shops that carry it. It is also used at some service intervals. I would use a bottle of that instead of wondering about the gas. But watch out for the stations with dirty tanks or not well used. Do a google search on the BG44K. Caution should be taken when adding the BG44K to your gas tank. Don't let the stuff spill on the car. Get a funnel if you buy a can & your okay with the easy pour bottle just don't get it on your paint.

Back then, and in the 60's as well, we'd fill our Coleman lanterns (with mantles) with this "white gas" from the Amoco pump. I don't know about now, but then it was alot less expensive than buying the Coleman fluid in the can, and it worked just fine with the regular lantern's generator/pump.

The only stations I avoid are the Sheetz convenience stores we have in Western PA. I was told years ago by a tanker driver that gas that was meant for consumption in OHIO was being brought across the state line for sale in the Sheetz stations here. It was supposedly 86 octane being dispensed at the 87 pump.
Can anyone in OHIO tell me if 86 is still sold there?


Pug I know this is about 6 months late, but to answer your question: No, 86 is not sold in any of the gas stations I live around or travel around. We have 87, 89, and 91.

I have been reading up on the difference between 87, 89, 91 and which I should use. I am more confused now than I was when I started. The only thing I do know is that I should use 91 when towing. The rest is still a mystery. I have always used the mid grade 89 in my vehicles because I figure if I can't figure out between the 91 and 87 I should just go for the middle one. Everyone has an opinion on this matter, which only adds to the confusion. Maybe someone could start a vote thread so we can see what people are using....I would, but don't know how :)

Pug I know this is about 6 months late, but to answer your question: No, 86 is not sold in any of the gas stations I live around or travel around. We have 87, 89, and 91.

I have been reading up on the difference between 87, 89, 91 and which I should use. I am more confused now than I was when I started. The only thing I do know is that I should use 91 when towing. The rest is still a mystery. I have always used the mid grade 89 in my vehicles because I figure if I can't figure out between the 91 and 87 I should just go for the middle one. Everyone has an opinion on this matter, which only adds to the confusion. Maybe someone could start a vote thread so we can see what people are using....I would, but don't know how :)

While driving through Kansas I saw 85, 86, and 87 octane fuels. I made the mistake of filling up with 85. I got the lowest milage I ever saw with that tank of fuel; 11 mpg highway

While driving through Kansas I saw 85, 86, and 87 octane fuels. I made the mistake of filling up with 85. I got the lowest milage I ever saw with that tank of fuel; 11 mpg highway
That's a Colorado thing too. Out in my area of the Wheat State, 85/86 is not available (thank goodness). IMHO, E-10 gas may say 87 but it burns like 86. :eek:
I have always used the mid grade 89 in my vehicles because I figure if I can't figure out between the 91 and 87
My testing with the Accord indicated that 87 & 89 produce the same results, while 91 boosts mileage by 5-10%. In the RL, it doesn't matter which one (for me, my RL, my location and a myriad of other variables).

The key is that my conclusions are based upon actual recording and testing over a period of time. If you do the same, the mystery will go away.:)

That's a Colorado thing too. Out in my area of the Wheat State, 85/86 is not available (thank goodness). IMHO, E-10 gas may say 87 but it burns like 86. :eek:

My testing with the Accord indicated that 87 & 89 produce the same results, while 91 boosts mileage by 5-10%. In the RL, it doesn't matter which one (for me, my RL, my location and a myriad of other variables).

The key is that my conclusions are based upon actual recording and testing over a period of time. If you do the same, the mystery will go away.:)

Geo,

When you are switching from 87, 89, 91 what is your procedure? Do you wait unitl your gas light comes on before switching to the other octane to avoid any descrepencies in the numbers? I always check my mileage but never write it down, I may start a little MPG experiment and test the three options to determine the best results. My driving habits are the same so the only real variable is level of fuel I am using. I would like to hear about any "best practices" you can offer to get me started. I suppose the easiest thing to do is just keep a little notebook and write down the numbers at fill up? Thanks.

Geo,

When you are switching from 87, 89, 91 what is your procedure? Do you wait unitl your gas light comes on before switching to the other octane to avoid any descrepencies in the numbers? I always check my mileage but never write it down, I may start a little MPG experiment and test the three options to determine the best results. My driving habits are the same so the only real variable is level of fuel I am using. I would like to hear about any "best practices" you can offer to get me started. I suppose the easiest thing to do is just keep a little notebook and write down the numbers at fill up? Thanks.

I recently had the chance to test gas grade in my RTL, with AEM Brute Force installed. I was astounded by the results, I drove the same way both going and coming and temprature and climate as close as one can get to the same both going and coming back on an trip. Ran 93 to start and then 87-89then reversed them I refilled them when the tank was almost empty. IMHO and experience my mileage was 2-4 miles more per gallon on 93 then on 87 octane, bty gas was BP/Amoco brand. This was only really evident on highway driving as in the city range fuel was comparable no matter what grade due to stop and go and the 1 mpg that I might have gained was offset by fuel cost. as much as 30 cents more for premium fuel. This is assuming that all factors including but not limited to tire pressure are at ideal settings. So to each engine its own I guess, but when I go from 186 to 236 at 9.5 gallons I think on the highway I will continue to put in high octane fuel as I have found in my experience it yields a good difference.

I have also found that when I have been forced to use the low teir fuel as you may call it, I have gotten horrible gas and saving 20 cents is not worth the problems it may cause or due to my engine. For us around here there is usually only about a $2 per tank difference between the lowest and highest fuel grade at a top teir.

Geo,

When you are switching from 87, 89, 91 what is your procedure? Do you wait unitl your gas light comes on before switching to the other octane to avoid any descrepencies in the numbers? I always check my mileage but never write it down, I may start a little MPG experiment and test the three options to determine the best results. My driving habits are the same so the only real variable is level of fuel I am using. I would like to hear about any "best practices" you can offer to get me started. I suppose the easiest thing to do is just keep a little notebook and write down the numbers at fill up? Thanks.
Yes, you should empty the tank as much as possible before fillup. We stop for gas as little as possibe because time is money for us and that also makes any analysis more meaningful.

This excel spreadsheet was passed to me by HiPSI, feel free to use it for your purposes. Nearly two years and 57k miles of my RL useage.
http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265889&postcount=51
There is another thread that has a spreadsheet too. Really, just a running list with columns will tell you what is going on.

As others have posted, try to use the same pump at the same station if testing for octane affect. Personally, I think 3 tanks fulls are enough to see a trend if driving conditions are similar. Don't forget about seasonal variations if you are in a winter gas state. It's a killer. See the chart in the above link.

When testing brands of gas, try to use the same station and the same pump for 3 fillups too, if driving conditions are similar. For us, that is nearly impossible to due as we travel so much.

Another tip is to always get a receipt and write the odometer reading on it too. We (meaning all of our work trucks) keep log books with the information too, but the mileage on the receipt really helps when we are really busy.

Yes, you should empty the tank as much as possible before fillup. We stop for gas as little as possibe because time is money for us and that also makes any analysis more meaningful.

This excel spreadsheet was passed to me by HiPSI, feel free to use it for your purposes. Nearly two years and 57k miles of my RL useage.
http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265889&postcount=51
There is another thread that has a spreadsheet too. Really, just a running list with columns will tell you what is going on.

As others have posted, try to use the same pump at the same station if testing for octane affect. Personally, I think 3 tanks fulls are enough to see a trend if driving conditions are similar. Don't forget about seasonal variations if you are in a winter gas state. It's a killer. See the chart in the above link.

When testing brands of gas, try to use the same station and the same pump for 3 fillups too, if driving conditions are similar. For us, that is nearly impossible to due as we travel so much.

Another tip is to always get a receipt and write the odometer reading on it too. We (meaning all of our work trucks) keep log books with the information too, but the mileage on the receipt really helps when we are really busy.

Thanks for all the help and yes I live in a winter gas state, although I didn't know that until I started visiting the ROC. I just assumed gas was gas :D I have a Shell and Marathon station within 3 miles from home/work so I will have to test the difference between the two brands as well. Thanks again for the help.

I recently had the chance to test gas grade in my RTL, with AEM Brute Force installed. I was astounded by the results, I drove the same way both going and coming and temprature and climate as close as one can get to the same both going and coming back on an trip. Ran 93 to start and then 87-89then reversed them I refilled them when the tank was almost empty. IMHO and experience my mileage was 2-4 miles more per gallon on 93 then on 87 octane, bty gas was BP/Amoco brand. This was only really evident on highway driving as in the city range fuel was comparable no matter what grade due to stop and go and the 1 mpg that I might have gained was offset by fuel cost. as much as 30 cents more for premium fuel. This is assuming that all factors including but not limited to tire pressure are at ideal settings. So to each engine its own I guess, but when I go from 186 to 236 at 9.5 gallons I think on the highway I will continue to put in high octane fuel as I have found in my experience it yields a good difference.

I have also found that when I have been forced to use the low teir fuel as you may call it, I have gotten horrible gas and saving 20 cents is not worth the problems it may cause or due to my engine. For us around here there is usually only about a $2 per tank difference between the lowest and highest fuel grade at a top teir.
I certainly agree with your conclusions. Not only does the vehicle run better (or so it seems), it makes good economic sense. Even 30 cents is only 10% more at $3 per gallon. 4 additional mpg would represent a 20% increase. It's a no brainer. BTW, this winter I'm averaging around 14mpg and last summer it was about 16mpg. These kind of numbers are the reason I have explored the mileage issue with such intensity. :eek:

I have been told by two Honda engineers that ANY modification whatsoever to the vehicle will result in less mileage. One exception: a tonneau cover. In fact, one of them told me that the 1/16th of an inch rubber mat I glued to the top of the tailgate and the tailgate itself to protect it, negatively impacts my mileage. Too what extent? He couldn't say, just that it did. So my mileage woes are clearly of my own doing (lift, bull bar, weight in trunk, protective mat on tailgate, my fat a$$, etc.)

I thought I had posted this somewhere, but now I can't find it. To compare different gas you are most concerned about $/MI. In other words, run 1 grade or brand and divide the cost per gallon by the MPG you attained.

Examples using made up data:
$3.10 / 16mpg = $.193 per mile. (Regular)
$3.30 / 19mpg = $.173 per mile. (Premium)

I thought I had posted this somewhere, but now I can't find it. To compare different gas you are most concerned about $/MI. In other words, run 1 grade or brand and divide the cost per gallon by the MPG you attained.

Examples using made up data:
$3.10 / 16mpg = $.193 per mile. (Regular)
$3.30 / 19mpg = $.173 per mile. (Premium)
That's the right way to look at it. Actually, the higher the base gas price, the more "cents" it makes to run a higher grade, provide one really gets better fuel economy. Some do, some don't. The point is, don't guess or think or believe, know for sure thru records.

I had a Silverado owner look me square in the eye and swear his 4x4 got 24mpg. Of course, that was after I answered his question first about my mileage. With fuel economy, like a lot of other things in life, the first liar doesn't stand a chance! ;) :D :p