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View Full Version : My impressions of the ROC/EOC Meet (long even for me)


ChrisM
06-22-2008, 11:26 AM
First, I want to thank TMac, Spdrcr5, and Julie (TMac's wife) for putting this whole shindig together. I along with Shuey and CUinaRidge have been to every ROC meet. I think the consensus is that this meet will be hard to top. For those of you who didn't go... All I can say is you missed one heck of a good time!

I met some very nice folks. I could go on and on about how nice the people were at the meet. There were some folks who I had nice conversations with at the meet that rarely ever post. I invite them to join in on the conversation more here during the year.

Now, down to the nitty gritty. This is going to be long but it will not be a waste of your time.

The ELP Tour

For those of you who don't know, it is just about impossible to get a tour of an operating Honda plant. You can't just sign up and go like at a big 3 auto plant. This was one special event. I don't know how TMac pulled this off. I was surprised at the complexity of the operation. I wish I could have taken pictures. I am still amazed at the amount of automation in that plant. There was activity everywhere no matter where you looked. There was so much activity in fact that we had to have a tour guide and a "spotter" for every group. This spotter made sure that we were not run over by one of the automated self guided parts carriers in the plant. They were everywhere scurrying about delivering everything from lug nuts to fenders to whatever. If you zigged when you should have zagged, you might have ended up being picked up by a robotic arm and being welded inside a quarter panel. :eek:

IIRC, the person who gave the presentation at the ELP said that it take about 20 hours to make a vehicle there from the time that they get the panels stamped for the car they are making. There is constant movement once the panels are loaded onto the first jig that holds that parts so that they can be welded together. I found it interesting that the entire engine, transmission, and front suspension are loaded into the CRV, Civic and Element at one time. Installation time of these components including bolting them in is about 20 seconds!

The robotic welding was really something to see. Not only was the precision of the welding a spectacle but so was the timing and synchronization of the whole process. I felt like there should have been some sort of Tchaikovsky piece playing in the background of the plant because all of the welding robots looked like some sort of mechanized ballet when welding and passing parts to each other. I couldn't believe how physically fast that they could move from weld to weld and how graceful they were. They moved fluidly almost like they were alive, not mechanically like one would expect.

Kudos to the folks at the Honda plant for everything that they shared with us. I didn't expect to get to experience what I did. I am grateful.

The TRC (Transportation Research Center)

I'll preface this by saying that I have been a car nut since I was about 13 years old. I remember seeing pictures and reading stories in Road & Track and Car & Driver magazines about high speed road tests being conducted at the TRC's 7.5 mile oval when I was a kid. Names like Ferrari and Lamborghini come to mind. I also remember the article about the Callaway Sledgehammer Corvette that set the top speed record at the TRC of 254.76 mph back in 1988 when I was in college. Ever since I first heard of the TRC, I wanted to go there. That was probably back in 1984 when I was a junior in High School. Yesterday at the age of 40 years old, I got to go!

I didn't go to the TRC before yesterday for lack of trying, you simply cannot get on the grounds at the TRC if you don't work there or short of an act of God or knowing Gary Flint. I grew up not 20 miles from the TRC so driving distance wasn't an issue. You simply cannot get in there. I talked to a person at the adjacent Honda factory who had worked there for 11 years. She said that in her 11 years at Honda, she had never had the opportunity to go to the TRC. They don't generally give tours and if you don't work there or own a plane, you'll never see the tracks. For those of you who didn't get to go, you missed out....

Honda did the rock drop demo, the Ridgeline up on 3 wheels demo, and the Ridgeline on rollers demo like they did at the last ROC meet. They also did a couple of other tests that amazed me.

The fully loaded RL performance test was my favorite. Imagine putting 1000 lbs of lead shot in 40 or so bags in the bed of your Ridgeline. Then load up a driver and a passenger and driving the truck like you stole it on a curvy road. This is exactly what Honda did. On the first lap around the little orange coned course, a heard a lot of spectators comments like, "HOLY SH!T!, DID YOU SEE THAT?" and WTF? They literally drove the truck at what I thought was above the trucks handling limits EMPTY, not with 1000 lbs of non strapped down ballast and a passenger! Those passengers during those hot laps were ROC members!

I remember looking over at the speedometer of the truck as we entered a decreasing radius fairly sharp turn at 70+ MPH! Imagine getting off of a freeway ramp and making a left turn at the bottom of the ramp at 70 mph with a pallet of bricks in the bed without decelerating and you'll get the picture. I had no idea you could do this with a truck let alone one with a half ton of material in the bed. Honda ran this test over and over again for over 3 hours on the same set of tires with the same truck. It was amazing that any vehicle could withstand that sort of beating. I noticed that the driver was driving the truck on the sidewalls at certain points on the course due to the heavily loaded cornering he was doing. I was totally blown away by the demonstration. What amazed me the most was probably the lack of eventfulness of my ride. The Ridgeline was composed the entire 2 laps I rode despite the tires smoking and the body rolling. I looked at the truck after the 3 hours of torture. There were no body wrinkles or distortions in the truck whatsoever. I figured that the truck body would have been bent by all of this abuse but it came out unscathed. I wouldn't ever dream of try driving like that with my truck around that course at those speeds with the EMPTY let alone with a half a ton in the bed! It was incredible!

They also did a test on a 20% grade that simulated ice under one side of the truck and solid ground under the other. Imagine trying to pull back onto an icy road from a non icy shoulder on a hill and you'll get the picture. The Ridgeline made it up this hill not only going forward but in REVERSE. They had a Toyota Tacoma for comparison which could not perform this same feat in either forward or reverse.

The last big test was the water crossing test. Honda repeatedly drove a Ridgeline thru a water tank with about 18" of water with a wave going up to the top of the hood about 8 times. Joe (Csimo) along with Frank (Ridgeln) and I got to actually ride in the truck with the driver thru the water tank after everyone else left. It was totally uneventful. We drove in, you could hear the water going by the doors and we drove out. I was impressed.

I really wish that I had the opportunity to take pictures but we were not allowed to take pictures. Frank (Ridgeln) was the only person who was allowed. I'm patiently waiting to see what he posts.

Last night, (Saturday) we had a nice sit down dinner at Dave & Busters. The meet sponsors gave out what I would consider a plethora of very generous prizes. I had to pick up my son at my Mom's house back in Cincinnati so I had to leave but I'm sure that I missed some great conversations with some really nice folks. I would also mention that I appreciate the very generous gift that Ondlinks gave me after the dinner. It will go to good use!

I could go on and on and on but I'll leave my impressions at that. It was one helluva weekend and ranks in the top 3 automotive related weekends in my life. The other 2 in my top 3 are a trip to the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring in Germany and a ride in a WRC rally car at speed on a closed course. This trip even surpassed the ride that I got in a RUF Porsche at 160 mph on the Autobahn in Germany.

THE WEEKEND WAS A TOTAL BLAST!

To those who didn't go, there is always next year!

Bevski333
06-22-2008, 12:00 PM
WOW!!!! I am impressed with this truck....

25 Year Honda Owner
06-22-2008, 12:21 PM
Great write up Chris, sorry I missed it!!

csimo
06-22-2008, 12:36 PM
Chris is completely accurate. Honda built a superior vehicle... I just wish everyone could see such demonstrations.

Jet Pack
06-22-2008, 12:48 PM
Can't wait to see pics &/or videos. Frank, please post them when you get a chance.

xridgelinex
06-22-2008, 01:52 PM
The TRC (Transportation Research Center)

The fully loaded RL performance test was my favorite. Imagine putting 1000 lbs of lead shot in 40 or so bags in the bed of your Ridgeline. Then load up a driver and a passenger and driving the truck like you stole it on a curvy road. This is exactly what Honda did. On the first lap around the little orange coned course, a heard a lot of spectators comments like, "HOLY SH!T!, DID YOU SEE THAT?" and WTF? They literally drove the truck at what I thought was above the trucks handling limits EMPTY, not with 1000 lbs of non strapped down ballast and a passenger! Those passengers during those hot laps were ROC members!

I remember looking over at the speedometer of the truck as we entered a decreasing radius fairly sharp turn at 70+ MPH! Imagine getting off of a freeway ramp and making a left turn at the bottom of the ramp at 70 mph with a pallet of bricks in the bed without decelerating and you'll get the picture. I had no idea you could do this with a truck let alone one with a half ton of material in the bed. Honda ran this test over and over again for over 3 hours on the same set of tires with the same truck. It was amazing that any vehicle could withstand that sort of beating. I noticed that the driver was driving the truck on the sidewalls at certain points on the course due to the heavily loaded cornering he was doing. I was totally blown away by the demonstration. What amazed me the most was probably the lack of eventfulness of my ride. The Ridgeline was composed the entire 2 laps I rode despite the tires smoking and the body rolling. I looked at the truck after the 3 hours of torture. There were no body wrinkles or distortions in the truck whatsoever. I figured that the truck body would have been bent by all of this abuse but it came out unscathed. I wouldn't ever dream of try driving like that with my truck around that course at those speeds with the EMPTY let alone with a half a ton in the bed! It was incredible!

They also did a test on a 20% grade that simulated ice under one side of the truck and solid ground under the other. Imagine trying to pull back onto an icy road from a non icy shoulder on a hill and you'll get the picture. The Ridgeline made it up this hill not only going forward but in REVERSE. They had a Toyota Tacoma for comparison which could not perform this same feat in either forward or reverse.

The last big test was the water crossing test. Honda repeatedly drove a Ridgeline thru a water tank with about 18" of water with a wave going up to the top of the hood about 8 times. Joe (Csimo) along with Frank (Ridgeln) got to actually ride in the truck with the driver thru the water tank after everyone else left. It was totally uneventful. We drove in, you could hear the water going by the doors and we drove out. I was impressed.



This is the type of stuff the needs to be in commercials... It's like what Toyota does in their commercials…

FTM1
06-22-2008, 03:03 PM
I made it home from Ohio to Washington,DC about 2:30pm.
It was around 430 miles for me & glad to be here.
I wan't to thank TMac & Julie his wife also Spdrc5 for doing this wonderful event for us. Also thanks to Gary Flint & his crew & the staff & employees at Honda.
If I had to grade this event I would give it an A+ & throw a few extra + signs in. It was great seeing all the old faces agaiin & some many new ones I had a blast the entire 2 days of this even.

oarnold
06-22-2008, 04:43 PM
Great post ChrisM. I was thinking this morning that I could not have asked for anything more from such an event. I overheard others complimenting our Honda hosts that the event was better than they could have asked for.

So, about the only way to top this next year is to do it all the same again, and then hand out a new RL to all the attendees. Seriously, after going for that tire-screamer white-knuckle ride, I don't know if I could be any more impressed. It was over the top, literally and figuratively, frontward and backward!

ridgeln
06-22-2008, 04:49 PM
Chris, great summary of the weekend - and, the weather was the best that the ROC has had for all three national events!

One addition to the 3 hrs of hot laps: I was one of the last people to ride - at roughly 2.5 hrs into the drives. The driver commented that he did not have ANY brake fade - after driving the truck so hard, with the load!

Interestingly, they did the laps in 2nd gear, to keep the RPMs high. We took a different route, going around the inner short track at 80 MPH - still in second gear, and hit the rev limiter (which I've never done - how cool to be able to experience that!). Not only were we in second gear, but stability control was turned off so we could experience 4 wheel drift - in a loaded Ridgeline!

So - Who's up for driving school at Mid-Ohio?

-ridgeln

Cajun Country Ridgeline
06-22-2008, 05:48 PM
Thanks Chris, great write up. Sorry we missed this year.

c_duncan_pe
06-22-2008, 06:08 PM
Thanks for the informative write up. I have got to make it to one these meets.
CD

djeaux
06-22-2008, 06:28 PM
Thanks so much for the great write-up, Chris! So many of us simply couldn't make a long trip & you put us right there. The description of the "hot laps" blew my mind. I knew the Ridgeline handled great but I didn't know how great great was. I have a lot better idea now. Thanks again for sharing.

(The photos were great, too!)

[Should this thread have some sort of disclaimer like, "If you load a half-ton of shot in the bed of your truck & then do hot laps on a closed course at 80 mph in 2nd gear, DO NOT POST HERE COMPLAINING ABOUT YOUR GAS MILEAGE?" :D]

Pizza Man
06-22-2008, 06:51 PM
I really appreciate having the opportunity to read your account, Chris. I know I missed a great time and I'm truly saddened by it. I can say there's always next year, but who knows what next year will bring?

Your account is the next best thing to being there. I wish I had the opportunity to meet you and the other great members of the ROC.

oarnold
06-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Pizza Man, 25 Year Owner, 63T Bird and others: your names were brought up repeatedly at the event because your friends were thinking of you and wishing all could have been there. You were missed.

Pizza Man
06-22-2008, 07:23 PM
Thanks, oarnold, that's nice to hear.

Ironically, 63Tbird and I had dinner together Saturday evening. We were sulking about missing the Meet! :)

ONDLINKS
06-22-2008, 07:24 PM
Just arrived home after a long ride in from Dublin. As a half way home rest, we stopped at Frank lloyd Wright's "Falling Water" and ran into dbb & his wife Kathy. We chatted about the meet and agreed it certainly was a fun time.

It was great to meet up with old friends and make new ones.

Thanks to Tmac, Julie, Larry and all those who made it happen.

25 Year Honda Owner
06-22-2008, 08:10 PM
Pizza Man, 25 Year Owner, 63T Bird and others: your names were brought up repeatedly at the event because your friends were thinking of you and wishing all could have been there. You were missed.

Now I really feel bad!! Someone actually missed me!! I sincerely missed the old friends made last year; Fred, Keith, Pete (Ridetrotter), Rob, Larry, Brengle, Tom and Julie, Mike, Chris, Vic, Carl and Liz (Raz also), Gary, any many more I can't recall at this time. Also was looking forward to meeting new friends, especially Joe and his crew from PA (got to watch the window tint in that state) and many more!! Seems like a great time was had by all. Now I will go pout for a few days because I did not go!!

ChrisM
06-22-2008, 08:41 PM
Nevermind...

ChrisM
06-22-2008, 08:45 PM
Now I really feel bad!! Someone actually missed me!! I sincerely missed the old friends made last year; Fred, Keith, Pete (Ridetrotter), Rob, Larry, Brengle, Tom and Julie, Mike, Chris, Vic, Carl and Liz (Raz also), Gary, any many more I can't recall at this time. Also was looking forward to meeting new friends, especially Joe and his crew from PA (got to watch the window tint in that state) and many more!! Seems like a great time was had by all. Now I will go pout for a few days because I did not go!!

25, I missed you and Pete and Moosepond and a number of other folks as well. I had hoped I would see Geo as well. Oh well, there is always next year. :)

I haven't missed yet but I have been fortunate. 2 of the 3 meets were less than 400 miles round trip for me including all the "in between driving". I know that others were not as fortunate.

John32070
06-22-2008, 09:08 PM
Sorry to have missed it. Finances, distance, and date were all against me coming. I remember the good times from last year, met ChrisM first when I pulled in the parking garage, meeting Gary and his presentations and even taking a pic with me and my truck, Carl and Raz, Tom and Julie being so on top of things, meeting up with geotech again 6 hrs from where we had our meeting, Fred being the cool guy he sounds like on here, and so on. I'm all for something closer (or accross) the Mississippi next year.

jforget1
06-22-2008, 09:21 PM
Chris, Great summary. Weekend was a great time all around. And how cool was it to have Gary Flint looking over all the add-ons I have put on my truck at 2:00 in the morning. I was tempted to show him the painted valve cover and Figs prop kit, but I knew he would give me **** about the Fujita intake.

He was so passionate about the whole development.

chuck401
06-22-2008, 09:33 PM
To all that attended, we have some great memories. To those that could not attend, you were missed by many. I hope that the details all ready posted and the photos to come can ease the pain of not being there.

k757
06-22-2008, 11:06 PM
Thanks goes to Kevin (Honda dude extradordinaire) who spotted me from last year's meet and said hi to me. Funny that he knew all about my tint ticket that I posted on Wednesday night. See everyone, the Honda guys and gals do read most of the forum.

Kevin, the VSA was not the culprit of the suspension rattle on my Accord, but on a brighter note (NOT), the tranny is now whining/whistling (I kid you not). The faster the car goes, the louder the tranny noise. Do you know someone on the '08 Accord Development team that I can chat with? (please PM me or send me an email)

For those interested (Frank :)) I did not get another tint ticket on the way home. But the ride home seemed to take many hours longer. I'm sure it didn't help that I drank quite a few Woodchucks last night and got to bed after 3 am.
And how cool was it to have Gary Flint looking over all the add-ons I have put on my truck at 2:00 in the morning. I was tempted to show him the painted valve cover and Figs prop kit, but I knew he would give me **** about the Fujita intake. True, but Gary did give me a little sh1t about my Accord. :D Also funny about the large door handles, but cool to learn that those handles are never coming off.
To all that attended, we have some great memories. Yea, and Gary was looking over a few trucks on saturday night over some beverages. He told Chuck that his hood was high by a millimeter or so. HAHAHA. The big thing I learned on sat. night is that the Chrome-like wheels (5 spoke) that Honda Accessories sells were not tested for strength like the OEM wheels.
To those that could not attend, you were missed by many. I hope that the details all ready posted and the photos to come can ease the pain of not being there.Yeah, I'm sure Frank got enough photos of ROC'rs faces as they got out of the Ridge after their "ride". Everyone had the biggest smile on their face, knowing that they will push the boundaries of their truck on the next off ramp!

SpartanML
06-23-2008, 12:43 AM
I am extremely glad everything went so well! I am also very saddened that I could not make it. I wonder if Gary had anything for me this year? Ha. In all seriousness though, Tom and the gang sound like they put on one hell of a meet. And as others said, there is always next year.

In the meantime, we got the NJ meet in a couple of months! :cool:

CUinaRidge
06-23-2008, 06:25 AM
First & Foremost....

Thank You HONDA!!!

Honda & Honda Dealerships are two totally different entities.. This was a Honda Event !! Gary even has to take his RL into the dealership for service do to legal issues!!

& then Thank you Tom, Julie, Larry...
& also all our sponsors... I would list them but I probably would forget one!!
I better thank Kicker though... as I landed up with a nice I-pod docking station boom box!!!

Ditto ditto ditto what others have said about the meet...
Edit Chris M's post... The engine and front assembly went in Faster !!

Being #26 test drive dummy with my HELMET on.....
All the lead shot (1000 pounds) WAS pushed, slid over on the passenger side.... There definetly some G-force action going on during the ride. :eek:
I helped the driver move some of the lead shot back over to the drivers side... I think about # 30 had a more balanced load ride again... I will also add this demonstration was done with OEM TIRES !!!!

On the tire topic ... the Red dot on the OEM tires should be mounted at 180 degrees of the valve stem. Not at the valve stem like mine got mounted. *(always learning something new at these meets)*

After the water tank test... I know I will NOT be modifying the air intake system. The way the RL is designed for the air intake keeps moisture out during driving rain and snow, not just fjording a stream or going through a dunk tank!!

Great to see everyone again!! and We had a great time!!

:)

BruceRTL
06-23-2008, 08:19 AM
This is going to be long but it will not be a waste of your time.

You are correct sir, it was not a waste of my time. What an fantastic summary of what must have been an amazing weekend. Thanks for sharing the experience. :)

MoosePond
06-23-2008, 08:23 AM
WOW! Now I'm really bummed out that I wasn't able to make this meet but thanks to ChrisM and his wonderfully detailed description (and great pics) I almost feel as if I were there. Can't wait to see the "official" pics from the ELP and TRC tours. Those "rides" at the TRC sound like a definite "E Ticket" (for those of you old enough to remember) :eek: and they alone would have been worth the trip if I'd been able to come. Like ChrisM I'm something of a gadget freak and backyard engineer so I'd really have liked to see all of the automation in full concert at ELP.

Sounds as if a great time was had by all and that kudos are once again in store for T-Mac, JuliE, Gary Flint and everyone at Honda.

btw, my brother-in-law's surgery went fine and he's already back home recuperating and complaining that he's missing his weekly golf game!

25 Year Honda Owner
06-23-2008, 08:50 AM
The ELP Tour

For those of you who don't know, it is just about impossible to get a tour of an operating Honda plant. You can't just sign up and go like at a big 3 auto plant. This was one special event. I don't know how TMac pulled this off.


Noticed on the Honda (Lincoln, AL) website that they are doing public tours on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I am checking with them now to see when I can get on their list. Since the plant is only 160 miles from me it should be quite interesting the see the Oddy and Pilot being built. (RL's will be shifted to this plant later this year). I have toured the Nissan plant in Smyrna, TN a couple of times and my wife has been to the Saturn plant in Spring Hill, TN on several occasions as she formally worked for one of their JIT manufacturers!!
I will follow up with the info I get about the Lincoln tours.

JuliE
06-23-2008, 08:59 AM
Hi guys! I missed all of you who weren't able to attend. It really was an amazing meet, which exceeded all of my expectations! I think the key to the tour is that we got to see the plant in full production mode. One of the best analogies I heard this weekend, is that it is like a symphony. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, parts of the plant are normally shut down before the tours go through.

justinb845
06-23-2008, 09:37 PM
I have to say that I also was impressed with your truck. I have ridden in many trucks and they didnt feel stable empty let alone 1000 of lead. I also got them to let 3 people in the truck and do the same run It was fermly planted nice truck if I could get into one and afford the gas I would do so and keep the EZ BAKE.

Twilightzero From EOC
06-24-2008, 10:16 PM
Okay I know I'm an interloper, but I have to say after the stuff at the TRC I'm SERIOUSLY impressed with the engineering on the Ridgeline. And I didn't even get in on the talk with the engineers & whatnot! I'm not a car guy by any means but I'm highly mechanically inclined and have read extensively on truck construction. The Ridge is lightyears ahead of other trucks! If only Honda could come out with a full pickup based on the same incredible level of engineering, they'd corner the market in no time!!

It was great to meet all of you, if even briefly!

Signed,
Twilightzero from EOC, the crazy guy with the trailer hitch grill! :D

Nicholas
06-25-2008, 02:01 PM
Hello to all! Just wanted to say that Linda and I meet some very nice people (even though she abandoned us Saturday along with my truck to attend the Columbus Quilting Show at the Columbus Civic Center). I was totally impressed with everything we seen and experienced. I thought over the years I had "pushed" my truck to it's limits but after Saturdays' demo ride...guess again! We had a great trip back and used the Shell gas card we won. It did help...Overall trip was 2,230 miles round trip and we averaged 21.19 miles per gallon. We would like to personally thank Julie and Tom for their time and a great event, and thanks to Gary Flint for our private chat about Ridgeline's preformance. Also thank you ChrisM on the information on the overhead map light replacement. Bought a dual package of the light bulbs and damn, one blew again the next day. I really think the first replacement was weak because nothing was changed on my vehicle and the second replacement is working fine. Only other "problem" was a blown right headlight (and my lights are always on when vehicle is running) which I replaced in South Carolina. Not bad with over 53,000 miles on the clock...first repairs other then normal maintenance! Thanks again to all!!!

Ridgetalker
06-26-2008, 10:07 AM
"They also did a test on a 20% grade that simulated ice under one side of the truck and solid ground under the other. Imagine trying to pull back onto an icy road from a non icy shoulder on a hill and you'll get the picture. The Ridgeline made it up this hill not only going forward but in REVERSE. They had a Toyota Tacoma for comparison which could not perform this same feat in either forward or reverse."



I already knew that my RL was great on slick roads, but I'm curious. Was the Tacoma a 4x4? If it was, seems like the two wheels on the dry side would be pulling.

ridgeln
06-26-2008, 10:13 AM
I already knew that my RL was great on slick roads, but I'm curious. Was the Tacoma a 4x4? If it was, seems like the two wheels on the dry side would be pulling.

Yes - it was a 4x4 in 4WD - and the wheels on the dry side didn't move, the wheels on the simulated ice just spun. The model was "the most popular package" of Tacoma that Toyota sells (as they have numerous packages, Honda went with the one most commonly sold). It was amazing to watch the Tacoma go backwards - downhill. It could not move on the simulated ice. Way cool to watch!

-ridgeln

k757
06-26-2008, 10:23 AM
Was the Tacoma a 4x4? If it was, seems like the two wheels on the dry side would be pulling.That's why the Ridge is a better real-world 4WD vehicle than the Tacoma. I'm not sure what the Tacoma 4x4 system actually does? :confused: I guess it works well if there is traction to all wheels, which always happens in conditions where you need 4WD, right?!? :rolleyes:

BillyBob58
06-26-2008, 01:37 PM
That's why the Ridge is a better real-world 4WD vehicle than the Tacoma. I'm not sure what the Tacoma 4x4 system actually does? :confused: I guess it works well if there is traction to all wheels, which always happens in conditions where you need 4WD, right?!? :rolleyes:

I'm glad to see this confirmation of the locking ( or simulated locking- or really good limited slip- whatever it is) rear dif on the RL. After owning a Pilot for 5 years and 96000 miles, I had always thought it had this ability, though I have been unable to confirm it.

I used to test the lockers in my previous 4 wheelers buy putting a telescoping jack under the rear axle, and lifting the wheel about 1/4" off the ground. And then leaving it in 2WD(RWD), see if I could drive off of the jack. But I can't think of any safe way to test the RL like this, since I can't think of a place to put the jack that would be safe once I tried to drive off of it. Plus, since the truck is FWD, I would have to have a front wheel lifted also, I suppose. So, I don't try it.

But as for the Tacoma, it sounds like it did not have the optional locking rear dif, which I believe is only available with the TRD package. The majority of 4wds out there do not have locking difs, especially the older ones. And if you don't, you are going no where if one front wheel and one rear wheel have no traction. Only the tires with no traction will get any engine power. But if the Tacoma( or any other 4wd vehicle) had the optional rear locker, it should have passed the test as easily as the RL. I'm just glad to hear that the RL definitely has it.

OTOH, even without the rear lockers, as we all know from experience, even plain simple 4wd can be most beneficial under most low traction situations. If traction is about equally low at all four wheels, it doesn't much matter if you have a locker or not. Or if both of the front wheels are on solid surface, but if both rear are on ice or buried in a mud hole- or vice versa- ( assuming no center dif between front and back), the non-locker 4wd will still be very helpful.

So most of the time, plain open dif 4wd is very helpful compared to plain open dif 2wd. But it is easy enough to contrive ( or run into in the real world) a situation( no traction on one front and one rear tire) where a 2wd with a rear locker will run circles around a 4wd with open difs. I used to have an 84 4runner 4wd to which I added Gleason Torque sensing difs front and rear. It was truly amazing where that vehicle would go in 2wd!

But there are other situations where the 4wd with open difs will perform much better than a 2wd with a locker. Of course, the best of all worlds is a 4wd with switchable or atomatic lockers front and rear. Kind of like the ( rear locker) RL! ;)

I know most of ya'll already know all of this. I'm just enjoying discussing RLs and 4wds!

Ridgetalker
06-26-2008, 03:21 PM
Nice post BB58.

PODO
07-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Thanks for sharing! I would have been ecstatic being able to go to the transportation research facility...your stories have definitely drawn a picture of the whole experience!