Let me start by stating that if this needs to be moved to The Ridge, please do so T Mac or Zero. I, for one, am pissed and I expect that most other people are as well. This is likely to take us into many different directions beyond just the Ridgeline and the Ridgelines fuel economy. Suggestions about how our members can reduce our fuel and energy consumption are great ideas to share, but there is more to discuss.

And now, on with the show...

When gas prices at the pump go up 30 to 60 cents in one day the only reason is gouging. The stations that are in hard hit areas that gouge the public must be held accountable by our justice system and the public. Although the damage may take years to restore, when the crisis is over the public will always remember who was naughty and who was nice. The few extra dollars that they take from their needy customers today will be long gone when they go out of business tomorrow. There are still a few stations and mini market stores that I will not go into that gouged the public in the 70s when there was a gas "shortage" caused by what we now know as OPEC and our own oil companies. The stations that raised their prices way beyond everyone else, and had an attitude about it, have not seen a penny from me since. Fortunately most of the serious offenders have put themselves out of business. I do not hold the new owners responsible, especially if they are a small privately owned company. The few that do remain will never see me again.

If your legislators and representatives as well as mine do not hear loud and clear from us that we want a serious investigation and corrective measures taken of this "oil shortage" and run up in gas prices, we are thereby accepting whatever abuses we receive. Legislators and representatives that do not act in our interest must be replaced at election time. The impact on the economy and every one of us as individuals has only just begun.

There has been a lot of chain letters, emails and petitions circulating lately with a lot of strange information and questionable proposals about what to do. The most common one that I have seen is about boycotting all gas purchases on a particular day. That one seems a bit far fetched to me. It may cause a momentary hiccup in the distribution systems but not much more. The other one that seems to have a little more validity is to boycott Exxon-Mobil and their subsidiaries entirely since they are the largest oil company on the planet. I am not sure what to think about those approaches. It does seem clear that each of us should make a very serious effort to reduce our overall energy consumption as much as we possibly can right now. Simply turning off an unneeded light helps. Eliminating or combining trips to the store helps more. Aside from the obvious that we all know about, applying the things that we all hear about can make a difference. I won't run out to the store tonight to get milk for breakfast. My poor planing when I was going past the store earlier today will just have to make me suffer. All together now - Awwwwwww! I can take a walk to the store in the morning just like I have been promising I should be doing for the exercise. Lord knows that I need it! There can be some good come out of this mess if we try.

So, what are your thoughts? What are you going to do? Anything? Remember, if you want to do something about a problem, you have to go to someone that can do something about it. Offer a solution and offer to help and you can make a difference. Simply complaining to others only serves to make everyone angry, frustrated and depressed but does nothing about solving the problem.

First I'm voting for someone other than another Bush! Next I'm seriously going to look at a bed cover for the Ridge. I have heard pros and cons if this will help. Maybe someone that has added one can give us some actual numbers.

I surely, am not selling my Ridgeline! :eek:

Have not decided yet how to react to this greed. After the Valdez fiasco, I shredded my Exxon cards and refused to deal with them until just this morning when the Flash Foods Exxon was almost 20 cents cheaper than the discount stations. Kind of regret that 9 gallon top-up now. Had used their product almost exclusively for years prior to the spill and their handling of it. Probably didn't hurt them to lose my business but it sure made me feel better. Hopefully we will all take note of who the opportunists are now and stand strong in the future and not help them profit from the misery of others. :mad: One thing I feel better about every day is never having voted for a Bush. :p

Being from the UK where it's been over $6 a gallon for many years, I'm still laughing at how cheap your gas is. I've made a point of running vehicles here that I could never have afforded to at home. Just remember, gas is still cheaper than milk and beer, but the 'experts' are predicting $4 a gallon in the not too distant future. As for minimizing my costs, I fill up at Costco, and buy a tank of proper gas every 5th fill.

Regarding the price gouging claim - don't forget that oil is a futures market. The price of gas today has nothing to do with what it cost to buy yesterday, but everything to do with the price of replacing it tomorrow.

My thoughts about BushCo are not suitable for publication here, but I think even I can cut him some slack as far as the hurricane goes.

Harley is offering some pretty good incentives. Maybe a more fuel-efficient extra vehicle is in order. ;)

I will be putting my motorcycle in the shop on Saturday for a tune up and rear tire. I will be riding it to work except on those days when I go to the gym or it rains! Before the gas went up before the hurricane, I was paying $50.00 to $53.00, every 3 days, to fill up the RL. Today at $3.05 a gallon at Arco (BP in some states) I paid $62.00 it's getting worse people. :eek:

There has been a lot of chain letters, emails and petitions circulating lately with a lot of strange information and questionable proposals about what to do. The most common one that I have seen is about boycotting all gas purchases on a particular day. That one seems a bit far fetched to me. It may cause a momentary hiccup in the distribution systems but not much more.Agreed. I doubt that this would produce the desired outcome.

The other one that seems to have a little more validity is to boycott Exxon-Mobil and their subsidiaries entirely since they are the largest oil company on the planet.I think that this approach is more viable, although I would suggest a rotating boycott among the various companies. Boycott company #1 for xx months and then move on to company #2, #3, etc. This would allow us to speak loudly and clearly to each company while still keeping our tanks full.

The problem is the apparent apathy that is present when it comes to mobilizing the general population on issues such as this. 'We the people' need to learn to stick together and put our partisan politics aside for the common good. Take a crappy TV show off of the air and a frantic letter writing campaign is sure to follow but take away our money and/or rights and people do nothing but follow along like cattle headed to slaughter.

We need a real leader who is not afraid to put it all on the line for the citizens of this country. Most of the today's politicians aren't leaders and they lose sight of everything but getting elected/re-elected. They will lie, cheat and steal to win our vote and then, once the votes are tallied, campaign promises are tossed aside. There is no accountability for their empty promises so they have no incentive to honor them. I feel that their promises are a contract and we need to establish a quick and effective process to boot their asses out of office, and take away their benefit package, when it becomes apparent that they have no intention of keeping a promise. Otherwise, voting is of little importance and we will soon become disenfranchised with the entire process.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'm going to drink some coffee and read the Cloud-Rider installation instructions for the grill kit that was delivered yesterday. :)

The problem is OPEC. OPEC is run by people who hate the US. Heck, almost the whole world hates us. They know the way to bring a power down that they can not defeat by bombs is through economic blows. And they have the patience to wait until it erodes every aspect of our economy, which the cost of oil will do if left unchecked.

We need gas efficient vehicles, alternate sources of energy, a better foreign policy, real leadership in our elected officials and we need to now consider doing the unthinkable - taking the oil of others for our own benefit. It is not stealing as Iraq should pay a price for the liberty we have given them. We have lost a thousand lives and spent billions of dollars (needlessly I believe) to give Iraq a chance at democracy. We are in control of the some of the biggest oil fields in the world over there. I say let Iraq pay us back a little with some of that oil.

On Monday, I stopped at the Honda Motorcycle store and asked about the Metropolitan scooter. He did not have one, and could not keep any on the floor. Selling like hot cakes. He told me he was expecting two delivered the next day, but one was already sold and he had a yellow one available if I like the color. I said I don't care it it was purple, I'll take it. I bought a helmet yesterday and rode it to work today! Top speed? 40 MPH...MPG? hopefully 100 MPG!! So, that is what I am doing about the gas prices...Meanwhile, my RL is safe at home to be used only for special occassions. :(

Since 1974 your local gas station can buy from any oil company. The gas is usually the same from station to station ( there are some exceptions - Sunoco premium and Amico/BP Premium are rarely sold elsewhere ). I have watched the trucks pull into the terminal and get the exact same fuel - Texaco, Phillips 66, Exxon, Shell, and Chevron labeled - the local distributer sells his branded fuel to all the stations in an area around his terminal. - The odds are against you that the tank you bought at a Named Brand station was refined by them.

Boycotting an oil company just changes the source of their revenune and hurts the independent guy how runs his local station.

The answer is nationalization of the oil companies and using energy we have control over.

When I was in college ( the 60's) we had the technology to use oil shale to make gasoline for about $33.00 a barrel ( oil was $15.00 a barrel ) we have over 500 year supply of oil shale in Colorado and a lot more in neighboring states.

The oil companies don't like this idea cause it will lower the cost of fuel. They like being in the Fortune 10. They would drop to the Fortune 100 if that were to occur. - they merged to get bigger to stay in the top 10.

We need to build new refineries and use the oil shale.

Just for logic sake:

in 1966 gas was $0.289 / gallon a new fully loaded car was $3000.00 and the minimum wage was $0.50. the average family of 4 made about $4,800.00

today gas is $2.89/gallon a new fully loaded car is about $30,000.00 and the minimum wage is $5.50. the average family of 4 makes about $47,000.00

Gas has just returned to what it cost in the "good old days of the 1960's". Scary isn't it?

What has changed is the gas tax was $0.109 or 1/3 the cost of gas.
today the gas tax is $0.559 so it is less than in the 60's.

My income tax max was 12% to $50,000 today it is 38% at 50,000.

Lets boycott the IRS they are the ones that are gouging. ( as are the OPEC members ).

Being from the UK where it's been over $6 a gallon for many years, I'm still laughing at how cheap your gas is. I've made a point of running vehicles here that I could never have afforded to at home. Just remember, gas is still cheaper than milk and beer, but the 'experts' are predicting $4 a gallon in the not too distant future. As for minimizing my costs, I fill up at Costco, and buy a tank of proper gas every 5th fill.

Great point. Anytime there's a big price surge, people go nuts. Then a year later we're all doing our normal thing just like nothing ever happened. This one even has a specific (read "short term") cause. Someone else pointed out that, in real, inflation adjusted terms, gas is only beginning to approach where it was many years ago. I don't like higher prices any more than anyone else, but let's keep it in perspective.

What am I doing to save gas? We did it 10 years ago when we paid a little more to buy close to work. I have a 8 mile round trip, and my wife's daily drive is 6 miles. If they'd put in bike paths around here, I'd probably use that. I know that's probably not typical, and I do feel for folks that have to drive long distances every day.

I wish I had a clever answer to post, but I dont. I intend to just piss and moan and pay whatever it costs to run my Ridgeline. Sorry but that's my honest answer to the question. I haven't seen any other ideas that stand a real chance of working.

I am going to keep watching the price go up.

How do you find the email addresses for the president, vp, mayors, governors, senators, and congressman? if we all sent emails to these people, that may get across our outrage for the gas prices...have to do something :mad:

I'm not going to stress about it. It's just the reality "SUFFERING IS OPTIONAL". ;)

Why don't we all go to this website and ask a question of the President.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/interactive/

Great point. Anytime there's a big price surge, people go nuts. Then a year later we're all doing our normal thing just like nothing ever happened. This one even has a specific (read "short term") cause. Someone else pointed out that, in real, inflation adjusted terms, gas is only beginning to approach where it was many years ago. I don't like higher prices any more than anyone else, but let's keep it in perspective.

Hear, hear!

The steep rise in gas prices is not entirely because of gouging -- I'm sure that some small percentage of the stations are slapping a little extra on because they know they can -- it's because of supply & demand. They're afraid that now that the main port for their oil has been destroyed by a hurricane, they don't know how much *their* next fill-up will cost, or where it will come from. By increasing their prices, they're a) trying to reduce demand to make their current supplies last longer, and b) trying to pay for their station's next fill-up (when they also will be gouged).

It's capitalism at its finest. It's the way our system works.

The monsoons are over! I'm pulling the Magna out of the garage.
Around $5.00 to fill up!
Well thats what it cost 2 1/2 months ago.
Mike :cool:

Hear, hear!

The steep rise in gas prices is not entirely because of gouging -- I'm sure that some small percentage of the stations are slapping a little extra on because they know they can -- it's because of supply & demand. They're afraid that now that the main port for their oil has been destroyed by a hurricane, they don't know how much *their* next fill-up will cost, or where it will come from. By increasing their prices, they're a) trying to reduce demand to make their current supplies last longer, and b) trying to pay for their station's next fill-up (when they also will be gouged).

It's capitalism at its finest. It's the way our system works.
And it's that very system that will draw the stations into line on price. There are a few well publicized cases where station owners jumped to near $6 yesterday. I think it was in Atlanta. Hard to believe they were actually selling any gas at that price. If the local market is far less than that, they won't. People will also be calling in on the state government's Gouging line and the greedy dealer will be getting some unwelcome visits. Real gougers should be hung out to dry. The rest are trying to do the best they can in a difficult situation. The good ones realize that people have long memories. The gougers - well, hang 'em high!

And it's that very system that will draw the stations into line on price.

Right, exactly. Let the system work. Some people have suggested boycotting specific oil companies (Exxon being a fine example, being the Valdez dip-wads that they were) -- you'll have more of an effect if you act locally. The big guys won't feel the effects of your boycott; the small, local places definitely will.

As for gov't intervention, you know, I'm not anti-gov't. But at the same time, I see them as being there for only the biggest grievances (Enron comes to mind...). People have a lot more individual power than they realize; capitalism works for a reason.

Now, if everyone around you is charging basically the same price for gas, you have no recourse -- there's nowhere you can go to get that "better price". Then I'll start talking about the price of gas in other industrialized nations, and you'll *really* want me to shut up!! :D

Larryr makes an interesting point (as we now move into the realm of politics, an appropriate use of this forum for we interesting people). People are going crazy about gas prices but few are going crazy about taxes. If the government didn't take so much tax gas prices wouldn't be such a big deal. Why aren't the wage earners en mass calling for a tax revolt? We've gone from 12% to 38% tax rate (on income alone!) in 45 years and we're all paying it??????

Being from the UK where it's been over $6 a gallon for many years, I'm still laughing at how cheap your gas is. I've made a point of running vehicles here that I could never have afforded to at home. Just remember, gas is still cheaper than milk and beer, but the 'experts' are predicting $4 a gallon in the not too distant future. As for minimizing my costs, I fill up at Costco, and buy a tank of proper gas every 5th fill.


Regarding the price gouging claim - don't forget that oil is a futures market. The price of gas today has nothing to do with what it cost to buy yesterday, but everything to do with the price of replacing it tomorrow.

My thoughts about BushCo are not suitable for publication here, but I think even I can cut him some slack as far as the hurricane goes.

holy cow man.....im so tired of people comparing what we pay to what is going on overseas.......i don't care what europeans are doing, i care about what AMERICANS are doing. Becasue oil is a futures market, it is more easily manipulated!!! thats the point ultra-hog is making!!!!!! milk, beer?? everything doesn't run off of milk or beer.........oil runs this economy and it must be kept reasonable so that we can still buy milk and beer!!!!!!! weve been "sold" suvs, v-8's, bigger homes.......all when oil was cheaper and now we are truely being gauged now that we have done our part by consuming goods and services which helps the economy. I WANT TO PICK AN OIL COMPANY TO BOYCOTT. BUT I KNOW I CAN'T DO IT ALONE. by the way, bush has truely made me feel like an idiot for voting for him. This is the nations worst natural disaster, even according to him, and he didn't even mention price gauging. Wonder why? thank you u-h for starting this thread. it is legitament for sure.

What are we going to do about gas prices?? We have 2 choices. Either we buy gas or we don't buy gas. Anyone come up with anything else??

Right, exactly. Let the system work. Some people have suggested boycotting specific oil companies (Exxon being a fine example, being the Valdez dip-wads that they were) -- you'll have more of an effect if you act locally. The big guys won't feel the effects of your boycott; the small, local places definitely will.

As for gov't intervention, you know, I'm not anti-gov't. But at the same time, I see them as being there for only the biggest grievances (Enron comes to mind...). People have a lot more individual power than they realize; capitalism works for a reason.

Now, if everyone around you is charging basically the same price for gas, you have no recourse -- there's nowhere you can go to get that "better price". Then I'll start talking about the price of gas in other industrialized nations, and you'll *really* want me to shut up!! :D

normally i would agree with "letting the sytem" work. but the oil market does not respond to convential capitalistic adjustments.........OIL IS BIGGER THAN THE SYSTEM. look around. EVERYTHING is affected by oil. This is not just some widget that will respond to conventianal free enterprise movement.

You know before I purchased my Ridgeline I looked on the sticker and it said that the milage is 16-21 MPG with variations as to where you might drive it. I was also aware that China as well as India were using more and more oil (can't buy much that isn't made in China these days). I suspect that a lot of us continue to purchase things made in China because it CHEAP and available without a thought about how much energy is needed to manufacture the product. We the people are dirving this because we want less costly things. This is not driven by the politicians but by the purchasing public.

Venezuela supplies us with about 10% of our oil needs and has a Socialist (Communist) leader and this supply is not solid. The Middle
East is in turmoil and this puts us in a tight situation.

We can't dirll for oil off California or Florida because of those states opposition. We have been haggling over drilling new fields in Alaska and can't seem to get that done. I just wish that everyone had the opportunity to go up to the North Slope and see that great operation. Before it was started there was all kinds of opposition for all kinds of reasons. The same thing is going on now about additional drilling in Alaska.

I read where a number of the folkes have boycotted Exxon because of the big spill from the Exxon Valdez. Any oil spill is a bad thing but when all is said and done Exxon did the right thing. Go up and visit around and you will see that the villages were rebuilt, new fishing boats and just too many things to list. Most folks just don't know the good that came of this tragedy.

I will drive my Ridgeline about 40,000 to 45,000 miles a year and I expect that is more that most folks on this URL will. In my business I don't get to raise my fees just because gas prices go up. I suspect this gas price will affect me more that most. I hope it will go down but I'm not holding my breath.

Just a quick observation. When I put my cruse on 65MPH I don't pass anyone, everyone passes me no matter what they are dirving. Am I the only one that has slowed down?

We can blame everyone we can think for these high gas prices but let's include ourselves.

Tiger

I watched CSPAN yesterday. The American Petroleum Institute held a news conference. Very enlightening. Apparently there is a total disconnect between the price we pay for gas and the "real time" state of production. Yes, we loss 11% of production but the gas prices are a matter of what investors in the futures market "think" is going to happen. Our gas price is driven by investors in NYC and not the actual state of production.

Oil refineries are working 98% capacity and have been for almost a year.

Oh, and one more thing. The API also said this. This Energy Bill which just passed will do NOTHING to build more refineries. It addressed none of the regulations which have hamstrung building new facilities. Basically the bill was a big tax cut for Energy Companies. This was said by the President of the API.

At the moment, the problem isn't crude, it's the ability to refine the crude into gas. So even if OPEC can magically pump out an additiona 100 million barrels a day, it will do us NO good.

What to do about the gas price? Drive slower, don't make random trips, be less aggressive, walk if you can...

Or you can move to Venezuela... it only costs $0.16 a gallon there.

I will be going out today and purchasing a new motorcycle.

weve been "sold" suvs, v-8's, bigger homes.......all when oil was cheaper
So, somehow it's someone else's fault that we bought those suvs, v-8's and bigger homes. Gosh, and I thought I was making my own decisions. The costs of gas guzzlers didn't just become a problem yesterday. We've been riding along on relatively high gas prices for a year or so, and yet sales of these vehicles have never been higher. Guess those nasty advertisers have our arm twisted so hard we just can't stop ourselves from writing $30,000 checks.

I ride my motorcycle to work about 3 days a week when I don't need the Ridge. We've been taking the Camry (30mpg) on trips lately. But I have no regrets about the Ridge (how could I?). It still serves its purpose(s).

I also notice a small decline in traffic these days. This spike in prices will create more of a population that absolutely can't afford to drive at all, will create more scooter riders and walkers, and hopefully the positives out of all this will be less traffic congestion and more motivation to conserve, even in the future. The biggest congestion problem in my area is parents driving their kids to school. I think this will also change.

It's time for everyone to take more responsibility for their activities and lifestyles, and by affecting our wallets is really the only way this will happen. Ironic thing is that oil prices might actually be a boon for alternative energy development.

So, somehow it's someone else's fault that we bought those suvs, v-8's and bigger homes. Gosh, and I thought I was making my own decisions. The costs of gas guzzlers didn't just become a problem yesterday. We've been riding along on relatively high gas prices for a year or so, and yet sales of these vehicles have never been higher. Guess those nasty advertisers have our arm twisted so hard we just can't stop ourselves from writing $30,000 checks.

nevermind.......you took only a few words i posted and placed them out of context. that wasn't my point. my point was goods and services are also related to oil prices. prices were kept low while these goods and services were being peddled. now that we have secured those goods and services oil is going up, refining capacity limited, etc......that was my point. please don't attempt to make me appear foolish (or more foolish :rolleyes: ) by taking my statements, partializing them and placing them out of context.

I'm afraid we will need to drive my wife's Accord more frequently, using the RL for highway trips and my short everyday commute. It's not that I can't afford the gas but the only way to bring prices down is to reduce our dependence on the product. I'm not putting a lot of miles on my RL lately- only 150 in the last 2 weeks and that includes the daily commute of around 13 miles RT. I am anxious to try the synthetic oil alternative that has been discussed a lot on this site. Unfortunately, I still show 30% oil life left after 4800 miles so I have to wait some more before I can switch. I have to admit it's not as much fun driving a vehicle struggling to average 16 MPG with $3 a gallon gas :(

I'm afraid we will need to drive my wife's Accord more frequently, using the RL for highway trips and my short everyday commute. It's not that I can't afford the gas but the only way to bring prices down is to reduce our dependence on the product. I'm not putting a lot of miles on my RL lately- only 150 in the last 2 weeks and that includes the daily commute of around 13 miles RT. I am anxious to try the synthetic oil alternative that has been discussed a lot on this site. Unfortunately, I still show 30% oil life left after 4800 miles so I have to wait some more before I can switch. I have to admit it's not as much fun driving a vehicle struggling to average 16 MPG with $3 a gallon gas :(

my wife and i are trying to ride share in her toyota solara to go to work. we both live 40 miles outside of dallas and this fuel problem has definately changed the way we think. if gas was this high i would not own the ridgeline.
atleast i don't think i would, not yet.

May I suggest the new '06 Civic!! The coupe is HOT!! The SI is awesome and even has Navi. Honda nailed this one, expect to see them all over the place in a very short time. :D :D :D

Good thread, U-H. But I will move it to The Ridge.

I will probably drive our Camry to work and back instead of the Ridge. Not because I am freaking about the prices but as a way to conserve a potentially very limited resource for the short term.

I can't wait for Honda to come out with a diesel Ridge so I can homebrew some biodiesel and make the world smell like a french fry! :D

nevermind.......you took only a few words i posted and placed them out of context. that wasn't my point. my point was goods and services are also related to oil prices. prices were kept low while these goods and services were being peddled. now that we have secured those goods and services oil is going up, refining capacity limited, etc......that was my point. please don't attempt to make me appear foolish (or more foolish :rolleyes: ) by taking my statements, partializing them and placing them out of context.
Not my intention to make anyone look foolish. It's hardly out of context when the post it comes from is literally just above it on the same page. I just get real tired of the victim mentality, and, right or wrong, that's how it came across to me. As to whether prices were "kept low", that's a separate debate.
Now, back to work so I can go pay for some gas!

Supply and Demand usually determines the price of things.
When demand is high and supply is low prices go up.
When demand is low and supply is high prices go down.
This is something we all learned in economics 101.

We can't do much about supply, but we can do something about demand.
If we could all reduce our gas consumption by say 20% it will probably make a difference. A few options could include:
Carpool
Telecommute
Fewer trips shopping by planning more carefully
Vacation closer to home.
Walk or Ride a bike when possible.

Even if this doesn't bring prices down you save money because you are buying less gas.

May I suggest the new '06 Civic!! The coupe is HOT!! The SI is awesome and even has Navi. Honda nailed this one, expect to see them all over the place in a very short time. :D :D :D

Brilliant! The solution to our problems is to buy another car, increase your personal debt and increase our trade imbalance with different countries? No, I agree with Ultra-HOG we need to complain to our government about the unfair profits that the oil companies are making during this crisis. Wait, isn't George W. and oil man? Doh! :rolleyes:

BTW: One reason, I bought my Ridgline to get better fuel economy than what I was driving. Also, nice Civic!

Figuring on 15,000 miles this year in my Ridge and 18mpg, that's 833 gallons. At $4.00 a gallon (it's coming) that's $3,333 per year. I think I'm going to forego the $1500 rim and wheel set I had my eye on. Isn't economics wonderful?

Related subject - what's everyone paying for fuel oil? I just received confirmation of a price cap at $2.49 - was paying $1.99 last winter.

Boy am I inline with everyone's feelings, but has anyone thought about the other part of the equation of our "throw-away" society's dependence on plastics and other hydro-carbon products? I know that is not the specific point that was originally brought up, but personally I feel this might be the time for us to do some introspection on our dependency on everything oil based including other products besides gas. I for one am willing to sacrifice for the good of the whole society, but we need a central goal for all of America and that comes from our federal government. (ie the Manhattan project, land a man on the moon) We need to stop being short-sighted (as a whole country, not just you or I) and get a plan in place for the LONG TERM, NOW.
Gas prices went from 2.79 to 3.09 overnight, so do I believe there is gouging going on? Hell yes. Do I believe that the bonehead in the executive office is totally responsible, yes and no, but mostly yes. (I know this is an oversimplication, ok, but...) The FEMA report that came out before 9-11 listed 3 major catastrophes that would cause America to tank (given our current personal and federal debt load) A major earthquake in California (6th biggest economy in the world), a major terrorist attack on New York (another $$$), and, you guessed it, a major hurricane hitting New Orleans. THE major port for an incredible amount of goods and oil for Amercia. The government, which should be acting in OUR best interests whether it is readily apparent or not, should have been making plans to handle these things. But again, that short-term, maybe it won't happen, risk-management bs has bitten us on the ass, and taken a big chunk of flesh with it.

I do think that having this "forum" to intelligently talk about non-partisan solutions is great. Let's try to keep it that way, because our problems are so huge that one or two aspects, ie the President, of this situation is not the only reason we are in this. These problems did not happen overnight, nor will they be solved overnight. Personally I don't think the country as a whole has what if takes to make individual sacrifices for the good of the whole.We are all responsible and it is now time for all Americans to do some introspection and look in the mirror and say "what can I do, to help our society as a whole, and move forward with intelligent, long-term decisions to help our country?

Education, true knowledge about these problems, healthy debates, and respect for everyone's opinion can and will get us thru this. Will that happen, given the current disrespect for individuals and the "it's all about me" mentality so prevailent? (remember all the BS we endured and currently endure about our Ridgeline from the other truck folks?) Dunno, but we have to start somewhere and our government, which works for US, AND the corporations, have to be held accountable on a DAILY basis for making sure we have a plan in place to dig ourselves out of this. I believe the time is now to turn our resources and money inward and solve Americas problems.

You need to get a grip on this notion of price gouging. Yes, there are some unscrupulous gas station owners out there trying it on with $5 or more a gallon, but 2.79 to 3.09, when oil went from $60 to $70 a barrel, is not gouging.
Your average gas station franchisee has to buy his gas tomorrow with the profit from what he is selling today. Profit on gas is miniscule and he knows that what he's making today isn't going to cover the price of gas next week. What else is he to do?

First I'm voting for someone other than another Bush!

Wow, that's funny!

Well, I am possibly the Ridge owner that drives the least of anyone here. I took delivery of my RTL March 23 and today the odometer reads 1769 miles. Yes, that is for real. Since I office in my home and live in an old historic neighborhood a few minutes from downtown Denver, I just don't have to drive much. The grocery store is four blocks away. Most retailers, restaurants and such I like to frequent are within a 5 mile radius. When I do have to meet a client, it's usually a 25 mile roundtrip or less. The most I ever have to drive is to the airport and an occasional trip to the mountains (which aren't that far from Denver). I haven't averaged more than 500 miles a month in several years (the 1997 Mazda B4000 SE truck the Ridgeline replaced only has 38K miles on it). After reading online what was going on in New Orleans just as the hurricane hit, I ran out and filled the Ridge for $2.54 a gallon. The very next day gas jumped to $2.77 and the following day it went to $2.89. I'm sure tomorrow it will be $3.00 or more. So, the next fillup is going to be about $10 more than the last. Good god.

I am extremely thankful my home/work situtation is what it is - I can't imagine what it would be like to have to fill that tank every week or more. My sister and her husband have an F250 and it's just killing them. They couldn't even give it away if they could (it has the Triton V10). After being in my RTL a few times, they want to get a Ridgeline, but the F250 is one big white elephant standing in the way. The RTL is the biggest vehicle I have ever owned - I've driven smaller vehicles all my life (the Mazda was the biggest I ever had until the Ridgeline). I sure do miss my '90 CRX Si. But given the choice again, I would have still purchased the Ridgeline.

So, right now, the prices aren't going to change my habits since it would be difficult to drive any less than I do now. However, I may be more likely to walk to the grocery store next time. ;)

yep, I also don't need to drive if I don't want to. I'll just leave it parked and walk more.

I'm like milehigh in that I do not have a need to drive much. I am retired 10 years now (got out early!) and I live on a golf course. Most days I take out the golf cart and play golf in the mornings. I may have more miles on it than the Ridgeline! In the afternoons I drive a mile and a half to our community gym and back and that is about it. We are out in the country and I get to town once a week or so and put on about 85 miles doing that. 90% of my friends live in the country club area or within 7 miles of it so I usually use my golf cart to visit.

Although I care about gas prices as it applies to others and the general impact it has on our economy, I really don't use enough of it myself to care what the price is.

Well, one thing that has not changed. I continue to be so very impressed with the members of this ROC site. It is hard to disagree with most of the information that is being posted. I salute you all for maintaining the decorum and respecting other members as you post differing opinions. If we all can keep an open mind and maintain the decorum, we have the ability to communicate openly and effectively. As we all contribute from our many and varied backgrounds, areas of expertise, and perspectives, great things will happen when we all work together. Therein lies our strength and our potential for greatness. As difficult as many things are right now I am very encouraged by that common thread. It continues to give us hope and a reason to believe that things will get better. While some things may change, change is not necessarily all bad.

A few points that bear repeating.

We all need to reduce our fuel consumption RIGHT NOW. If we all do all of the obvious things and some new things to reduce the demand will have an impact on the price of fuel and the economy. The fuel that we save will have an immediate economic effect on us as individuals and will affect the economy as a whole. Aside from reducing the numbers of miles that you drive in a week (it can be done if you try and if you plan), drive more conservatively. Don’t hoard gas. Don’t top off your tank until it is absolutely necessary. Don’t fill gas cans to save a dollar today Vs tomorrows gas price. Wait as long as possible until prices stabilize. You can help to increase the supply by reducing your consumption. You will be doing your part to lower gas prices. It does matter!

The cost of fuel does affect the entire economy and it does it very quickly. Last month I found a great deal on a beautiful late model Class A (large) motor home. The purchase price was about half of what I expected it to be and was well within reach. I was very seriously considering purchasing it but the deciding factor against purchasing it was the cost to operate it. At the ‘old’ gas prices it would have been tolerable. At today’s and tomorrows gas prices it is out of the question. That money will not change hands. The money spent while traveling in it will not change hands. It will continue to sit on the dealer’s lot and depreciate while costing him money for interest and tying up his capital and credit reserves. Because that one large vehicle sits on his lot, he can not invest that money in several smaller cars or trucks that he could turn over quickly and realize a profit on each one. I suggest that high gas prices have had a very negative, long lasting and widespread effect on everyone directly and indirectly involved it this one lost transaction. This is just one example. I can only imagine what the trucking industry must be going through. Who remembers the truckers strike? Remember thousands of trucks parked along the side of the road. Remember the chaos that resulted? Owner – operators are better off staying at home. Trucks were being repossessed by the tens of thousands, bankruptcies, widespread distribution problems, on and on.

When I purchased my Ridgeline, the cost of gas was not good but it was tolerable. It was about $1.80 per gallon if I recall correctly. At $2.50 a gallon I probably would not have chosen the Ridgeline. At $3.00 a gallon I would not have chosen the Ridgeline. At $3.50 I definitely would not have chosen the Ridgeline. At $4.00 a gallon I would not have even looked at the Ridgeline.

Another observation, while production certainly has been affected, consumption in large areas of Louisiana and Mississippi has been at near zero. Harsh and bizarre as it is, that must count for something toward today’s supply side of the equation. What has been lost was purchased with yesterdays dollars. This really is not significant, just one of those ‘huh?’ thoughts… In the grand scheme of things it is probably not relevant.

The time to act and to change is now. There have been a lot of great thoughts and ideas shared on this thread. Members are doing some great things.

From the first post on this thread:
So, what are your thoughts? What are you going to do? Anything? Remember, if you want to do something about a problem, you have to go to someone that can do something about it. Offer a solution and offer to help and you can make a difference. Simply complaining to others only serves to make everyone angry, frustrated and depressed but does nothing about solving the problem.

I just received this from my daughter in Florida. She did not start it, she received it from someone else. Interesting though...

Subject: Gas Prices

Don't know if this would work...but what the hay?

Subject: Gas
Rumor has it we're going to hit close to $3.00 a gallon by the end of the year and it might go higher!!

Want gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action.

Phillip Hollsworth, offered this good idea:

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May!

The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas.

It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.

BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please read it and join with us! By
now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too!
It is currently $2.43 for regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us
to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50- $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control
the market place....not sellers. With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see
the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas!

And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

HOW?

Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the TWO BIGGEST COMPANIES (which now are one),
EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to
follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers.

It's really simple to do!!

Now, don't whimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending! this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it.....
THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people.
That's all.

How long would all that take?
If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!

I'll bet you didn't think you and! I had that much potential, did you!
Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN... THIS CAN REALLY WORK.
--

Copy, past and foreword if you care to...

A few months back I was planning on buying the Ridge. I hope to get one someday. A few years down the road. But I decided in May to go with a VW Jetta TDI. I must say the 40+ miles per gallon has helped a lot with the prices at the pump.
I have not really changed my driving habits. In fact I just decided to head to OKC from Dallas to see a friend this holiday weekend.
I remember the hardships when we capped prices in the 70's at the gas pump. It cost us a lot. It took President Reagan getting rid of that price cap to start the wheels moving for lower gas prices. Oil companies invested more in drilling, supplies went up prices over the next couple of years went down.
Amazing things happen when we hit hard times. America stands up and makes the hard decisions. We all change our habits and try to make things better. It may seem hard now, but maybe...just maybe this natural disaster will make us better. Give us a backbone to change our ways. Hopefully the companies like FORD and GM will see the light and make more fuel efficeint cars.
I always try to remember how bad our parents or grandparents had it during the Depression of the 30's. We truly are blessed. This event will work itself out in less then a few months (rebuilding will take longer), but already people from these areas are deciding to relocate. Many are moving to Houston and Dallas and making new homes. Finding new jobs. Its amazing how people can adjust and move on.
Hope you all have a great Labor Day

[QUOTE=Lingered_I]You need to get a grip on this notion of price gouging. Yes, there are some unscrupulous gas station owners out there trying it on with $5 or more a gallon, but 2.79 to 3.09, when oil went from $60 to $70 a barrel, is not gouging.
QUOTE]

Well this is sort of true the price of oil went up but it takes some time for the $70 barrels to get refined and replace the gas that was purchased at $60 a barrel, yet gas prices jump the same day oil jumps. What's up with that?

Gas boycotts don't work. Sending out that message as an email is just as bad as spam!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

The prices go up when the price for a barrel of crude goes up because, as someone else said, the station owners have to use the money they have *today* to buy at *tomorrow's* [unknown] prices. Since prices are in such flux, and there are many unknowns since Katrina destroyed N.O. ports, you'll see an instant reaction on the part of the station owners. It's entirely justified, up to a certain level. Beyond that, people will shop around for the better price and the real gougers will pay for it with fewer customers.

Supply, demand.

It seems to me that oil and gas are necessities in life to heat our homes, drive our cars and produce many petroleum based products we use every day. We need to conserve by not driving just for the heck of it but drive for a reason and try to combine into one trip what use to be two or three trips. Instead of taking two driving vacations a year we can take one that is a bit longer. So of course there are little things like this we can do to save fuel but the bottom line is we need it and we will continue to buy it no matter the price. OPEC knows this. We will simply have to reallocate certain funds in our family budget to make up for the price we pay at the pumps.

I will be driving back to PA from Florida in a couple of weeks with my daughters 2002 Ford Focus that we arranged a long distance trade-in for a new vehicle for her. Instead of trading it I just may keep it. The darn thing is in good shape but is only worth about $3000. It gets in the mid-twenties around town and mid-thirties on the highway. The Ridgeline may have to sit except for times when a bigger or nicer vehicle is necessary. If Gas hits and stays at or above $4.00 a gallon I am afraid that the Ridgeline will sit for so long that it may just have to go away. The cost to drive it will have nearly doubled since I bought it a few short months ago. That sure does take some of the fun and excitement out of driving it. If the #35K investment in it is not being used very much, I may be forced to make a difficult decision. Sadly, it is at risk.

"Run Forest, run!".......(Forest Gump) :D

Maybe until things settle down, I probably will car pool. I'm probably using 2 gallons a day to drive to/from work. I've also slowed down (doing 55 instead of 70 mph saves 17%) and I will make less random trips.

It's all a part of life.....more for gas, then one less time eating out. We will pay because we have to. I agree the smaller businesses feel it as opposed to the large corporations. So even at a penny a gallon, it adds up if everybody goes a mile or so out of the way. Eventually supply and demand will fall, and gas station owners will have to compete for your $$.

I do blame some of it on media hype. When they say 'gas will be at $3.00 by this weekend...." it will, only because its out there and gougers know they can get away with it. Don't advertise it, then there's no way every little mom and pop gas station is going to go along with the program equally. If their gas bill goes up, they will raise it accordingly, not by what the media tells them.

Regrettably some states (like AZ) do not have a gouge law. So remember that when time comes for local (state) elections and let the politicians know that is what's important to you. We also need to look at politicians that will buck the trend and look at alternative measures for energy.

Finally, we can bitch and moan but someday these prices will be a regular part of our life. We are just in shock right now because 'us Americans' have gotten used to the low prices. I am sure there are ROC members that recall paying .25 a gallon once upon a time.

So I will treasure and appreciate my RL each time I drive it, no matter what the price!

[QUOTE=meanmachine19]"Run Forest, run!".......(Forest Gump) :D

stuff delete

I am sure there are ROC members that recall paying .25 a gallon once upon a time.

stuff delete QUOTE]

I got my 1st car in 1967 and gas was .249 / gal then the federal gas tax added .04 and became .289 /gal then 1975 came and hit the unheard of price of .499 / gallon and it was thought that it might hit a dollar a gallon.


What I want to know is where are the oil shale refineries - in 1975 President Gerald Ford stated we has more oil in Colorado oil shale than the middle east had combined - (it was at $10 -$12 / barrel) but it would cost $30 / barrel to get it out - hey oil companies at $70 / barrel it would seem we should be using oil shale oil by now.

my $.02

What I want to know is where are the oil shale refineries
I think that shale oil seeped north of the border. Alberta to be precise. Suncor has been doing a pretty good job of developing that technology and bringing the process costs down.

I'm definitely driving slower on the highway to work. Sticking close to 60-65mph and I tell ya it seems so are alot of other drivers. On I95 you have the usual maniacs weaving in and out an doing 80 -90 but I haven't seen that. I maybe imagining it though.

Ditto Rocker. I have been driving much more conservatively lately and have noticed that others are doing the same thing. There also did not seem to be as much traffic this weekend as I would have expected. It was actually very light here in central PA.

Just a momentary aside - I don't intend to change the subject. If you are going to Wal-Mart and travel on a limited access highway to get there, watch the idiots that fly along at 80 to 90, tailgate everyone, pass on the right, and don't use turn signals. You know the type. When you pull into the parking lot, notice the cars that are parked in the fire lane at the front door. Same ones? They must be really special! Then watch what comes out of the store and gets in the car - usually an overly made up plus size barbie carrying a box or two of Ho-Ho's, a dozen Crispy Cremes, and a quart of makeup. I've seen it happen. Yup! Really special!

I am honestly doing nothing different, I drive the hybrid most of the time, and take the Ridgeline out for a weekly ride around to do a little house work stuff like a trip to Home Depot or the Wholesale Club. Come Thanksgiving though, if prices are still the same, I may opt to drive the hybrid to the family gathering rather than the Ridgeline which was my original plan.

It seems our gouging is coming from the refineries. Before the crisis it cost 12 dollars to process a barrel of oil from a refiner. After the hurricane it cost 50 dollars a barrel. Only last year it was between 3 to 4 dolloars to refine a barrel of oil.
We need to investigate the refineries. I believe in capitalism, but this is no different then four gas stations on the corners of a busy street getting together and raising prices.
As for the oil shale. It was stated last week that there is 1.1 trillion barrels of oil reserves in the Colorado/Utah mountains (shale area). More then all the oil in the middle east reserves at this time.

With all things being equal, and the economic data being taken into consideration, I think gas prices are a reflection of where they should be. Now, yes, it is expensive as heck, and price gouging in hard hit areas is disgusting, but the owners of the gas stations have suffered as well.
What will I do differently? Probably cut down on pleasure drives and non-important trips. I've also come to realize that three bucks a gallon will be the norm from this point forward and anything lower will be gravy.

Same thing I always do...buy from the cheapest station and use my gas card to get my 5% discount.

I've considered bringing my lunch to work once or twice a week to offset the increased cost, but I just can't ever seem to actually bring it. I guess I like getting away for an hour too much.

Same thing I always do...buy from the cheapest station and use my gas card to get my 5% discount.

I've considered bringing my lunch to work once or twice a week to offset the increased cost, but I just can't ever seem to actually bring it. I guess I like getting away for an hour too much.

Which card gives you a 5% discount at the pumps? How does the gas card work? Do you accumulate points and exchange it for gifts or cash after a year? :)

Which card gives you a 5% discount at the pumps? How does the gas card work? Do you accumulate points and exchange it for gifts or cash after a year? :)
I have a Discover cash card. Use it to pay at the pump (has to be a gas code when submitted to Discover) and you get 5% back on the 1st $1500 (I think), then it drops a little for each incremental amount. I'm sure they have their schedule on the web page. I use it only for gas to keep from reaching the dollar amount quicker than necessary. The cashback can be cashed in increments of $20 and I apply it directly to my bill. You can get merchandise instead of cash and it's worth 10% if you do that instead of cash.

I use a WalMart reloadable shopping card. There is a WalMart Neighborhood Market near my house that has gas pumps. You get 3 cents off per gallon of gas if you use a WalMart shopping card.

I load the card from the internet using my Hilton Honors credit card. That way, I get Hilton points as well.