Underbody Sealant

When buying my Ridgeline the dealer tried to get me to spend around a $1000 on underbody sealant, citing that Maryland still uses salt and other nasties in the winter. Looking at the picture (http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2374) I took of the underside of my truck and noticing how patchy the paintwork / primer is, I was wondering how many of you got the same sales pitch and went with it or have applied any 3rd party products. In the UK we had something called Waxoyl - not sure if it's sold here - but what would you recommend if anything?

Google returned a home recipe. ;)
http://www.geocities.com/wallaces_21/waxoyl.html

When buying my Ridgeline the dealer tried to get me to spend around a $1000 on underbody sealant, citing that Maryland still uses salt and other nasties in the winter. Looking at the picture (http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2374) I took of the underside of my truck and noticing how patchy the paintwork / primer is, I was wondering how many of you got the same sales pitch and went with it or have applied any 3rd party products. In the UK we had something called Waxoyl - not sure if it's sold here - but what would you recommend if anything?

Your Ridgeline is covered for 60 months - unlimited miles under the Rust Perforation Limited Warranty. Certainly not the best in the industry, but you might actually void that warranty if you add any aftermarket undercoat or sealant.

Certain parts of the vehicle are not supposed to be sealed... this provides good drainage, etc. I've personally seen some "rustproofing" that actually sealed up the drains in the doors and other panels.... they ended up with a sloshing sound due to all the water that couldn't escape.

Despite the shorter than average rust warranty I would not do anything different than what the factory provided.

Google returned a home recipe. ;)
http://www.geocities.com/wallaces_21/waxoyl.html
Ha ha - I'd better dig out my grease gun for the axles and have my horse reshod while I'm at it. :D

Your Ridgeline is covered for 60 months - unlimited miles under the Rust Perforation Limited Warranty. Certainly not the best in the industry, but you might actually void that warranty if you add any aftermarket undercoat or sealant.

Certain parts of the vehicle are not supposed to be sealed... this provides good drainage, etc. I've personally seen some "rustproofing" that actually sealed up the drains in the doors and other panels.... they ended up with a sloshing sound due to all the water that couldn't escape.

Despite the shorter than average rust warranty I would not do anything different than what the factory provided.
So why was the dealer trying to sell me this?

So why was the dealer trying to sell me this?

PROFIT! Like paint sealant, fabric protector, window etching, etc.

When buying my Ridgeline the dealer tried to get me to spend around a $1000 on underbody sealant, citing that Maryland still uses salt and other nasties in the winter. Looking at the picture (http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2374) I took of the underside of my truck and noticing how patchy the paintwork / primer is, I was wondering how many of you got the same sales pitch and went with it or have applied any 3rd party products. In the UK we had something called Waxoyl - not sure if it's sold here - but what would you recommend if anything?

You can get Waxoyl from Moss Motors in Goleta, CA (www.mossmotors.com (http://www.mossmotors.com)) or Victoria British. You can get a nice discount on it from the Little British Car Company (www.lbcarco.com (http://www.lbcarco.com)). I'd stay away from undercoating. I certainly don't need it in California but I once lived in the North East. The undercoating can hold the corrosive material against the metal if it is not perfectly applied. Waxoyl goes on pretty easy and comes off just as easy. I use it in the electrical systems of my Sprite and MGA in the winter when it's wet.

Has anyone used waxoyl..what are your thoughts on it?

Your Ridgeline is covered for 60 months - unlimited miles under the Rust Perforation Limited Warranty. Certainly not the best in the industry, but you might actually void that warranty if you add any aftermarket undercoat or sealant.

Certain parts of the vehicle are not supposed to be sealed... this provides good drainage, etc. I've personally seen some "rustproofing" that actually sealed up the drains in the doors and other panels.... they ended up with a sloshing sound due to all the water that couldn't escape.

Despite the shorter than average rust warranty I would not do anything different than what the factory provided.
Ok here is a direct quote from two seperate Honda Dealers, were they both scammers?
"The 60 month warrenty will not cover rust caused by corrosives, and salt is considered a corrosive." In addition, they said if the rust comes from a certain direction (not sure if it back to front or front to back) it wouldn't be covered. My wife opted that we buy the lifetime warrrenty through "The Protector". This was sound proofing, undercoating, interior protectant, and exterior paint protectant. This is suppose to cover everything for life. Cost was $600, after bartering. The other dealer wanted $1200 for similar stuff.
I will have to admit, we got this on a minivan and all others of that year had rusted through, and ours showed no rust. So I'm keeping the Ridgeline till death or accident, so I figured it was a good investmment. Remember I'm from Wisconsin, and many times they salt rather than plow, here. The days of getting a new cars every two years is over for me. So bottom line is we need to read the warrenty very closely, then seek legal advise. :eek:

Ok here is a direct quote from two seperate Honda Dealers, were they both scammers?
"The 60 month warrenty will not cover rust caused by corrosives, and salt is considered a corrosive." In addition, they said if the rust comes from a certain direction (not sure if it back to front or front to back) it wouldn't be covered. My wife opted that we buy the lifetime warrrenty through "The Protector". This was sound proofing, undercoating, interior protectant, and exterior paint protectant. This is suppose to cover everything for life. Cost was $600, after bartering. The other dealer wanted $1200 for similar stuff.
I will have to admit, we got this on a minivan and all others of that year had rusted through, and ours showed no rust. So I'm keeping the Ridgeline till death or accident, so I figured it was a good investmment. Remember I'm from Wisconsin, and many times they salt rather than plow, here. The days of getting a new cars every two years is over for me. So bottom line is we need to read the warrenty very closely, then seek legal advise. :eek:

Well I had a long answer typed up listed several references, but when I hit Submit it went into never never land.

The answer is YES, the dealers are telling you lies. Consumer Reports, Edmunds, IntelliChoice, and several other sources I quoted all list rustproofing as a "dealer scam". The attorney generals of several states list them as ripoffs.

Rustproofing is a ripoff. Period.

I see plenty of articles and recommendations advising buyers to avoid dealer offers of rustproofing (and extended warranties and the like), but none that say to avoid underbody rusting proofing period. One article mentioned the danger of sealing in areas that are already rusting, although I would hope that's not a problem on a brand new vehicle. Waxoyl, while effective, is more of a seasonal treatment, perhaps a step up from using old engine oil (not recommended). Anyone got experience with any other brands? Yes, Honda does have an anti-perforation warranty but, as mentioned by RidgeMe, I don't think that covers the affects of salt and other chemicals used for de-icing.

A related link (http://readyhonda.com/vehprotect.htm) from a Canadian Honda Dealer

what is the diff between rustproofing and underbody rustproofing ? Confused,,,

what is the diff between rustproofing and underbody rustproofing ? Confused,,,

Underbody rustproofing used to be called undercoating and is sprayed on the underbody of the vehicle. A non-invasive procedure, but still can be very damaging.

Complete rustproofing involves drilling holes in doors, and other panels that are not accessible. The "technician" (using that term very loosely) sticks a spray wand in the hole and sprays the miracle product in... then they put rubber plugs in the holes they drilled.

Both involve people spraying products into areas they have no idea about. Should the area be covered, or is it supposed to be clear to drain, or smooth to prevent chafing of hoses, or any of the other thousand reasons engineers determined when they designed the vehicle? These rustproofers just believe the more crap you can spray on the better. A very dumb idea.

How many modern vehicles have you seen that rust out? Those that do are usually the ones that were wrecked. Even Chevy truck rocker panels quit rusting out about 20 years ago. Amazing.

As an ex-Parts & Service Director for an automobile dealer, I can say for certain that undercoating/rustproofing is a profit center for the dealer. The gross profit on undercoating was IIRC, over 400%.
Also, as previously pointed out, not only does undercoating possibly clog some drain holes, it can eventually get cracks, tears, etc. that can form traps for the water, and actually speed up the rusting process.

The 60 month warrenty will not cover rust caused by corrosives, and salt is considered a corrosive." In addition, they said if the rust comes from a certain direction (not sure if it back to front or front to back) it wouldn't be covered.
So what else would cause rust on a coated and painted surface besides corrosives? That is the whole purpose of anti-rust warranties. You probably aren't old enough to remember what cars in salt using states looked like in the good old days. You could have rust eating through in a couple of years, or less. Consumer dissatisfaction and demand caused the manufacturers to find anti-rust coatings for their vehicles and eventually to offer warranties against rust.

So what else would cause rust on a coated and painted surface besides corrosives? That is the whole purpose of anti-rust warranties. You probably aren't old enough to remember what cars in salt using states looked like in the good old days. You could have rust eating through in a couple of years, or less. Consumer dissatisfaction and demand caused the manufacturers to find anti-rust coatings for their vehicles and eventually to offer warranties against rust.

I well remember rust on cars in Ohio. Door panels hanging off. Floorboards rusting out. (My first car was a 1973 Pinto... rusted floorboards and all). Cars today seldom rust like that. THANK GOODNESS!

Ever notice when you ask the salesperson how much for extended warranty they refer you to the finance dept. That's because the "extras" extended warranty, fabric protection, etc is how the finance person makes their commision. I never buy the "extras"; just search the web and you can find warranties for anything for less $$$ than the dealer.

What I have done in the past on my cars and trucks and will do it to my ridgeline before the winter is I take a few cans of rubberized undercoating and spray it on the underside of the body floor area etc no parts on the underside get covered just the metal of the body, I have never had any rust issues and it cuts out some road noise

So what else would cause rust on a coated and painted surface besides corrosives? That is the whole purpose of anti-rust warranties. You probably aren't old enough to remember what cars in salt using states looked like in the good old days. You could have rust eating through in a couple of years, or less. Consumer dissatisfaction and demand caused the manufacturers to find anti-rust coatings for their vehicles and eventually to offer warranties against rust.
All your comments are well taken.

1. Remember my Ridgeline is now protected for Lifetime. Your warrenty is limited to 60,000 miles.

2. Ask your Dealer directly, if your car is warrented again corrosives. If they say yes. then you are home free to 60,000 miles.

3. Believe it or not I have lived in Wisconsin for over 50+ years, so I guess that makes me "old enough" and sort of qualified to comment on salt using states, and it's just not salt they apply these days, either. Anyone who says they haven't seen a rusted vehicle in 20 years, needs to come "Up North".

4. The best way to test your thery is to have it rust before 60,000 miles, and then ask if it's going to be covered. Thats option A. I choose option B, pay for guarenteed lifetime coverage, which covers everything.

Finally I totally agree that costs for undercoating, sound proofing, and extended warrenties for that matter, can be definately a cost generators for the dealership. People don't know what their worth, they appear to look like bargins, and are ALWAYS over priced. So is insurance, so I bought insurance for life vs 60 months. Only time will tell, but a great discussion nevertheless. ;)

For topic reference, this is right out of the owners manual.

Rust Perforation Limited Warrenty:

-all exterior body panels are covered for rust through from the inside for the specified time period with no mileage limit.

Ok, rust is only be covered in one direction, and for the specified time period, which isn't stated...Would that be Three Years? Are we calling this good coverage?

How about all the comments I have seen on bad paint, guess what direction that is, yes outside in and NOT covered. Not a happy customer if that happens.

People, I pray no issue ever happens to your Ridgeline, I love mine, and will do whatever I need to do to keep it in great shape. I am new to Honda's and don't have the experience of many of the veterans on this site. Since this is the first Honda Truck, and yours, we have no guage to use. My past experience has shown extra protection helps.

This isn't going to affect those of you in Texas, but "Up North" this makes a big difference. :eek:

RidgeMe,

Not to be contrary, but I have been in the north all my life, not as long as you but 35 years isn't a short time either, and while I have seen rusted out cars in the last 20 years, I don't know that I have seen a car made in the last 20 years rusted out. The 1993 Ford Escort Wagon that I once had is still on the road and you would be hard pressed to find rust on that, I didn't add any additional protection when I bought it because I certainly couldn't afford it then. The only rust I have seen on anything newer than that was on the hood of my Subaru which I traded for the RL, for whatever reason the latch got rusty and was difficult to open and close. But this wasn't rusted through just a little rust on the latch itself.

So I wouldn't say that you can't get the added protection if you really want it but I just don't think it is very necessary. And yes I do see rusted out crap cars all over the place, these are usually where people haven't maintained their paint job or cleaned their cars at all and you can usually tell because they have holes down through the top of the car with big pealing areas all around it. If you don't take care of your car, you aren't going to be covered for rust in an extended plan either because all those I have seen require that you at least take care of the vehicle.

While I agree rust protection has improved over the years. I find it hard to believe no one has seen the perhaps the most popular minivans like the Caravans, Voyagers, with rust on their tailgates.

I agree again, that if the vehicle is very well maintained then it should meet anyones expectations. Afterall, most people don't live in Salt States, lots of people will trade the vehicle in a few years anyway, so no need for anything better as far as protection. Given those odds of ever needing warrenty repair, you shouldn't ever have an issue.

The package I bought had interior protectant, exterior paint protectant, sound proofing, and undercoating. Perhaps I got ripped off. But I feel it surely couldn't hurt. Even though many comments indicated it would damage my vehicle.

This discussion parrallels the discussion about changing oil early, before the almighty sensor tells you to do it. If Honda doesn't tell you to do it, then it's poison, it's very bad for your vehicle, and may void your warrenty. Next I will hear "Only Let Honda Service Your Vehicle". "Any one other isn't worthy." Geez...make the guy stop the rant....hahahahahaha

All in all, it's ok to disagree, and it's been a very informative discussion. Thats what this forum is all about. I like to hear all the comments and all comments are worthy of discussion. It gives all the viewers a education on the topic, so they can make a better personal choice. Thanks everyone for the input. :D

We have a rustproofing product called "Krown" here (in Canada), I have used it on my last Vehicle for almost 10 years and not one spot of rust anywhere.Its thin oily stuff,and creeps in every seam and hard to get area , it doesn't dry up and trap moisture after a few years like the wax base products. Here with all the salt on the road, it works, I do it for 2 or 3 years in a row when vehicle is new and then after every other year.only costs $120.00 per application.

We have a rustproofing product called "Krown" here (in Canada), I have used it on my last Vehicle for almost 10 years and not one spot of rust anywhere.Its thin oily stuff,and creeps in every seam and hard to get area , it doesn't dry up and trap moisture after a few years like the wax base products. Here with all the salt on the road, it works, I do it for 2 or 3 years in a row when vehicle is new and then after every other year.only costs $120.00 per application.

I use Krown as well and have used it for six years at least. Besides the rust protection it also lubricates the moving parts such as power windows, hood latches, door hinges etc. Haven't had any rust problems in my last two vehicles both GMC's using Krown. (sounds like a commercial)

My truck has been through 3 winters here in Cleveland OH and the underside is as clean as the day I bought it. That is impressing me the most about the build quality. If you don't live in the North with salt you wouldn't understand. Most frames crust and scale in 3-5 years.

So, did anyone find out whether aftermarket products will void Honda's warranty? It sounds like an empty threat to me, and I'd want to see it in writing. Krown uses a thin oil that doesn't clog drains. It is even recommended by the CAA (Canadian Automobile Association).

The protection packages are a scam. I also would not recommend any spray on undercoating unless you plan on maitaining it properly, which means crawling under it regularly and scraping off any are that is lifting or peeling. Otherwise it will just hold water in the little pockets it forms. The best option is just hitting it with a little rustoleum as needed and making the occasional trip to the car wash being sure to spray the underneath to rinse away the salt and chemicals occasionally. I don't keep vehicles for twenty years, so it isn't much of an issue for me anyway.