Guys I'm in the market for a new DSLR i love my canon point and shoot but sometimes i want more camera and better control on the shots. especially zooming and fast picture taking. Anyway i've decided on the canon 450 rebel xsi or the Nikon d80 as they both get good reviews and are probably about what i need. I've also seen that ebay has several camera shops selling these so called "packages". Has anyone had good or bad experience with them? The "packages usually come with a body, 1-4 lenses(i'm only intersted in the deals with two autofocus image stabilization lens). some cleaning stuff, carry case all that jazz. for a pretty resonable cost. Again i just didn't know if anyone had good or bad experince with them. Look up canon rebel xsi on ebay if you don't know what i mean.

Guys I'm in the market for a new DSLR i love my canon point and shoot but sometimes i want more camera and better control on the shots. especially zooming and fast picture taking. Anyway i've decided on the canon 450 rebel xsi or the Nikon d80 as they both get good reviews and are probably about what i need. I've also seen that ebay has several camera shops selling these so called "packages". Has anyone had good or bad experience with them? The "packages usually come with a body, 1-4 lenses(i'm only intersted in the deals with two autofocus image stabilization lens). some cleaning stuff, carry case all that jazz. for a pretty resonable cost. Again i just didn't know if anyone had good or bad experince with them. Look up canon rebel xsi on ebay if you don't know what i mean.

Digital Rebel is a great starter DSLR. Packages are good if you actually find one that meets your exact needs but you can usually walk into a local camera dealer and get exactly what you need and negotiate a "package" price. IS is becoming more of a standard feature, but it is not yet available on most beginner setups where pricing is more important than capability of the gear. IS is most important on your long or telefoto lens as camera shake is multiplied by the distance your subject is from you. If you can find a good multi-length lens with IS like a 70-200, then let that one be your IS lens and dont worry if your shorter lens like an 28-70 does not have the IS feature. Don't fall into the trap right away of getting extremely expensive (L glass) lenses until you decide if this is a hobby you want to spend thousands of $ on, but do start out with Canon glass to match your DSLR if you buy a Canon. ALso keep in mind that these beginner Canon DSLR cameras come with a sensor that multiplies your lens focal points (X 1.6) so that your 28-70 is really going to act like a longer lens and you will not have a real close up or wide angle ability because of this and may need to buy a 3rd lens fr real close up work.

Bill thanks alot for the advice. I had read alot about the multiplication factor of the dslrs on lenses. basically i would really just like the body with a good is telephoto lens and by good i mean something that will really get out ther and touch you. I've seen some packages with the canon 70-250mm tele is with the body and also the standard kit lense for around 930. here is a link to the sale what do you think on the pricing and the extra junk they throw in.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-Digital-REBEL-XSi-450D-Camera-2-IS-Lens-8GB_W0QQitemZ140292127023QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigita l_Cameras?hash=item140292127023&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1308%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

You may wish to consider something more up-to-date than the D80 from Nikon. Their D90 has some good reviews. I have a D40 with several lenses and really enjoy it.

Here's a great site for reviews and discussions about all digicams:
http://www.dpreview.com/

There are Canon specific forums as well as Nikon, etc. Scroll over the discussion forums for a breakdown by model.

Edit: I'd suggest you be careful of the ebay gear. You'll likely want USA warranty gear.

Bill thanks alot for the advice. I had read alot about the multiplication factor of the dslrs on lenses. basically i would really just like the body with a good is telephoto lens and by good i mean something that will really get out ther and touch you. I've seen some packages with the canon 70-250mm tele is with the body and also the standard kit lense for around 930. here is a link to the sale what do you think on the pricing and the extra junk they throw in.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-Digita...3A1%7C294%3A50

Most of the "junk" in this package is exactly that. Stay away from these gimicky lens adaptors that claim to multiply of wide angle fix any lens you buy as the true effect is never worth what it claims to be able to do. Both of the lenses in this package are EF type and only will mount up to this camera, so unless you plan to never upgrade, they will be OK for this camera and they do not get affected by the multiplication factor as they are designed to work at their stated values as they are built to work directly with this camera and the 1.6 multiplier. Go out and price this camera with just the body, a 450 speed lite add on flash (or comparible Speedlite number from Canon), a couple of 2 gig memory cards (1 x 8 gigs is nice but you will not want all your pictures in one basket for risk of losing them if the card fails), a second battery to take with you on trips, a bag to carry them (this package has a nice bag so that is a keeper) and then a single lens to start with that will do most of your initial learning and give you something to play with close in and semi-long shots (a 70-300 range lens). If you can fill this for $1000, then you will have a better start to your hobby quality wise. Remember, lenses will last forever if you do not buy these EF types and will fit all Canon bodies. Lenses can be bought used and unless you are a professional, most used lenses will work great and save you a ton of $ so long as they are bought through a quality outlet that warrenties they are in good shape.

Just a follow up to my advice - I found a good lens for you and it is around $400. The Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS. You should be able to ge the body for around $400 also and the battery and memory cards for about $100. To stay under $1000 you may need to forego the external flash unit which will be around $200 but that is not extremely important as the Rebel has its own built in flash and is good enough to get started with. In my prior comment I stated to stay away from the EF lenses, but I meant to say the EF-S type which is only good with the Rebel body and those "S" lenses are the types in the kit you showed. Good luck and have fun.

JuiceGoose, I'm admittedly a Canon lover....after having nothing but Nikons for several years. I still love Nikon cameras, but my current choice for best cameras is Canon. (Others will obviously argue.) Popular Photography Magazine recently rated the Canon XSi as the best camera on the market for under $1,000. It beat all models of Nikons in the same price range.

I have an older model Canon Digital Rebel. It's the 350D..or XT model. Had it for about 3 years, and I still love it. The XSi is 3 generations above the same camera. When I got my Canon XT, I got the Canon 35-105mm image stablilized lens. Even if I upgrade my Canon, I'll sure keep this lens. Wonderful lens, and very reasonably priced. It's the same lens that comes standard on the more expensive Canon 40D (and maybe the new 50D).

I also recently bought the Canon 70-300mm telephoto image stabilized lens. GREAT lens, and also very reasonably priced. Check out the reviews on both lenses I've mentioned at www.amazon.com.

Obviously, I highly recommend the Canon DSLR cameras. I couldn't be more pleased with mine. And if you're looking for a good camera store for your purchases, I highly recommend 17th Street Photo... http://www.17photo.com/ Great folks to deal with.

And at some point, you'll want some good image editing software. It can turn your "average" photos into great ones with just a few clicks of the mouse. Adobe Photoshop Elements is wonderful image editing software, and MUCH cheaper than the full-blown Photoshop. Elements 7.0 is on the market now, and most all review sites praise it as the best image editing software for under $500.

Best of luck to you in your camera search!

Thanks for the great advice guys. I'm going to go buy my local ritz to just look at and feel the 450d. As far as lenses go i don't really see myself upgrading to a better dslr in the future. My main focus of upgrading from a PnS is the ability to take better pictures from further away and to be able to zoom in quickly on objects. Case in point, I was at a local air show and my little point and shoot just wasn't cutting it. 3x optical isn't near enough. So i caught myself using my girlfriends 10x optical point and shoot. Although it took some good pictures you can't zoom manually so it was a little slow on passing airplanes and with no viewfinder only a screen it was impossible to see what i was shooting in the sun. But the most fustrating part was the burst mode buffer. I would take maybe a burst of 4-8 shots and it would take the camera at least30 seconds to store them to memory. now i realize that getting a really good mem card will help but the bottom line is i was envoius of all the dslrs taking some good shots out there. here is one shot that I am particularly proud of. Again it was shot with a PnS with a 10x optical

You'll find the Canon DSLRs (and I assume the Nikons) have an autofocus setting called "AI Servo" which will be great for taking pics of things like planes and other objects that are moving. The AI Servo setting follows the motion and keeps it in focus.

As you're doing your camera shopping, take all the time you need to buy the DSLR you want. You'll probably end up getting at least a couple of lenses for it, and you sure don't want to change camera brands later and be stuck with expensive lenses you can no longer use. If you do get the Canon 450D, and then decide in a year or two to upgrade to a newer model, the Canon lenses will fit your new camera....and all you'll need to buy is the body.

Good luck with your search!
Tom

Good advice, Tom.

Buy the camera around the lenses you want. Bodies come and go, but the lenses are where the investment (long term) is.

I had a chance to go into a Ritz camera the other day and did like the feel of the D90 over the XSI. As crazy as it sounds i liked how the focus ring on the nikon lense was right behind the zoom ring. It made it easy to zoom and then focus where as the canon lense focus ring was out front of the zoom ring. I was just under the assumption that with the d90 being a first gen on the whole video feature that it was kind of gimmicky and afraid of troubles with it. I'm not buying the camera for video it's kind of a nice feature i suppose but not why i would buy it. Regarding lense choices I want a good all around lense with VR or IS(i know they are the same) something that will get me close(really close) and at the same time be able to pan back. would i be better suited getting the standard kit lense then at the same time pick up a telphoto lense or get one of those combo lenses that go like 18-300 or whatever it is?

I've got an oppurtunity to possibly buy the d90 with the 18-105 kit lense for 1000 out the door but it's used from an independant person. Is this a good deal. The ad says it was bought in october and i've seen several pictures all show the camera and accesories to be in really good shape.

All I can give my opinion on is that i would avoid ebay if possible. Sure, there are several legit people there now. It seems to have turned into a haven for scammers nowadays. Try craigslist and go for a local sale. Bring friends. :)

A great place to buy camera stuff is the classified forum on www.fredmiranda.com (http://www.fredmiranda.com) There are so many great deals there from knowledgeable people. You'll be surprised at how many things are listed there and how frequently!

I have heard great things about buying new from Cameta Camera. They will negotiate price on some items, new. B&H Photo is a great place to buy gear from, too. Also, Ritz has some great deals from time to time and a good reputation.

I've got an oppurtunity to possibly buy the d90 with the 18-105 kit lense for 1000 out the door but it's used from an independant person. Is this a good deal. The ad says it was bought in october and i've seen several pictures all show the camera and accesories to be in really good shape.

If that is the same thing as this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11311439&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|83|76275&N=4025522&Mo=10&pos=4&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=76275&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10604-Cat83&topnav=) I would hurry on down to Costco and pick one up.

If that is the same thing as this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11311439&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|83|76275&N=4025522&Mo=10&pos=4&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=76275&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10604-Cat83&topnav=) I would hurry on down to Costco and pick one up.

I'm super bias to things that are better so I'm going to say stick to cannon.

At this level of camera there are so many tips and tricks to dramatically improve your photos that you'll find the relatively friendly community of canon owners indispensable for finding new and better ways.

for instance shooting in bright daylight you can choose the cloudy mode which gives them a little more warmth.

At that price range I would highly recommend the cannon EOS 50d, abes of main is a great place online

though "some" best buys will actually lower the prices to match online stores

http://www.google.com/products?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=canon+eos+50d&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=biLASd_QI5KWsQOC9twv&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

Nothing wrong with Canon. I moved from Canon to Nikon as I perceived a better value at the time. I have zero regrets. I believe the Nikon flash system is arguably better, but otherwise I think it's largely 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other.

I have had multiple Canon camera failures in the last several years that may have influenced that decision to some extent, but overall, I think Canon and Nikon both make fine cameras. In fact, I recently bought a Canon Digital Elph (SD870IS) as my belt camera for times when the DSLR should stay at home.

Obviously there are aficionados of both brands. The real difference in images from either brand lies in the creative hands that hold the camera.

I've always been a Sony guy. I've moved between countless of Sony point & shoots, film and APS cameras over the years. I finally made the jump over to DSLR and purchased a Nikon D40X factory demo from Cameta Camera for $260. It's only the body without the lens, but after hundreds of reviews and website comparisons, i figured out it was best to buy a decent body and save the cash for a great lens.

The D40X was a great choice as a DSLR starter. It has the small size of the D40 and the MP of the D60. It is user friendly and takes great shots on AUTO. I'll gradually explore the settings and start custmoizing my shots as i learn.