I have the factory Honda accessory hitch/harness installed on my Ridgeline and need some information.

My boat trailer has surge type disk brakes on the axles. In order to reverse the trailer, the electronic lock-out pin has to be engaged by receiving 12 volts when the truck in placed in reverse. This locks out the trailor's master brake cylinder and keeps the brakes from activating when pressure is applied to the cylinder when reversing the trailer.

However, there is not 12 volts on the center pin of the 7-pin Honda socket when the truck is shifted into reverse and the truck's reverse lights come on. The protective cap on the 7-pin socket has the connector pin out diagram on it showing the center post of the connector for "Back-up Lamps" but there are not 12 volts present when in reverse.

Having downloaded the instructions and wiring diagram for the harness from hondacuraworld, I notice there is no wiring shown at all for the center post of the 7-pin socket. Yet the socket's protective cap clearly shows there should for that post.

Has anyone else towing a trailer with surge brakes encountered the same problem? If so, I would be greatful to know what type of resolution you worked out. Thanks in advance for any advice.

I haven't run into that yet, but I would like to know the answer.

The fact that the center post of the 7-pin connector is not wired for reverse has been mentioned on this forum before. I have surge brakes on my boat trailer but they are drum brakes so no fifth wire. I think a call to Honda and/or your dealer is in order at this point. You bought and paid for a 7-pin connector but in reality only got a 6-pin. Plus apparently Honda is pretty touchy about anyone tapping into their wiring system. I think Honda should make this good under warranty. For the price of the wiring harness, it seems inexcusable that it was not included.

I did wire the center pin for backup lights. I tapped into the left backup light. The difficult part is wiring the plug - the Honda plug does NOT have a center connector installed. It's been a while but at I recall I used a spade style connector (the plug separates into two parts as I recall) and was able to get it to fit "just like from the factory" but it involved some interesting poking and prodding after opening up the back of the plug.

I enjoy this kind of thing in my weird sort of way but in general its not an easy fix. Sorry for the poor description but I'm working from memory (I remember thinking about two minutes after I hooked it up that I should have taken photos). The take-home message is it can be done but its not at all straight forward.

I am familiar with the brakes you have. It is really best to have the backup solenoid working as they lock VERY tightly in reverse (unlike drum brakes)! The work-around is to make a block that will keep your moving hitch piece from moving and activating the master cylendar. I keep a metal wedge for that purpose (even though I am back to drum brakes on my new trailer it can be very handy when backing up hill).

Norm

The work-around is to make a block that will keep your moving hitch piece from moving and activating the master cylendar.
Some of the couplers have a hole and a pin that can be placed to prevent master cylinder operation, but it is a PITA to have to get out and install the pin (or a block) every time you want to back up your trailer.

Yes. You are correct about the pin. There is one on the trailer and that is how I have been working around the issue of not having 12 volts to the center post. However, like you said, it is a major pain.

Like others replied, for the expense of the factory hitch and harness this issue should be addressed professionally. I will express this to Honda today as well as my dealer.

I am prepared to do the work around, so thanks for the advise, but only as a last resort. It is really not safe to have to hop out of the truck, in traffic or a parking lot, to put in the trailer pin in order to back up the trailer. Then having the possibility of accidentally leaving the pin in place and having no brake operation at highway speeds. So, I consider it a saftey issue as well.

Thanks.

Norm,

I have disk / surge brakes on my boat trailer and need a back-up light connection same as you. I expect to add a back-up light leg to the center connector just as you did but I'm a bit hesitant to tap into the back-up lights so I wanted to ask if you have experienced any issues after your connection. I tapped into the backup lights on my last truck and had no problems.....

Has anybody ever asked and received any kind of explanation from Honda why the backup light leg is missing?

Thanks for any feedback on your install.

Beaullieu

I am very interested in the solution to this problem. My boat has the surge breaks that are actually disc and not drum brakes. You cannot back up your boat trailer without this functioning. I was thinking about installing the wiring harness and hitch myself but I am glad I read this first. If anybody finds out why that center back up light pin doesn't function please post a response.

I saw in another post that there is a TSB # SN050600-004 on the problem, but I don't know what the TSB says about it. You might want to investigate this further.

I am very interested in the solution to this problem. My boat has the surge breaks that are actually disc and not drum brakes. You cannot back up your boat trailer without this functioning. I was thinking about installing the wiring harness and hitch myself but I am glad I read this first. If anybody finds out why that center back up light pin doesn't function please post a response.

Has anyone gone to the dealer yet regarding this? And what does the TSB say about this? Thanks.

In response to the question asking if I had any trouble after tapping into the backup lights - no. But in the way of a qualification - I only used the connection with a trailer with a backup light (a large single spot light) . By the time I got the Ridgeline I no longer had the trailer with the disk brakes. I don't think the solenoid draws very much but it might be worth someones time to look up how many amps one draws.

Norm

This one has me troubled folks. Towing is a big reason I purchased the truck. I need a hitch and harness but I am reluctant to spend the exorbitant amount that the dealer wants to do the install. I want to still use the Honda parts but will attempt to do the job myself. I'm afraid If I install the harness from Honda and then the back up light pin doesn't have current to release my surge brakes than I have no recourse because I installed it and not the dealer. For those who mentioned the TSB. Do you know if it pertains to the harness itself meaning that later versions of the harness kit will have a fix or does it have to do with the way it is wired to the truck through the dash? Wiring the harness like Honda has prescribed is the way I want to do this. I don't want to get the standard job of connecting through the tail lights as is done in most hitch shops. I am hoping for a fix before I get mine done.

The dealer read me the TSB. It says the existing wiring and fuse for the reverse lights is too small for the addition of any accessories. Now, what do we do?

That's a lousy excuse. My trailer uses 7 watts to lock out the brakes. Thanks Honda. :mad:

That response is completely unacceptable. I too have purchased my Ridgeline and paid extra for the hitch set-up so I could pull my 4K lb. plus sport boat.

I agree, if this is true, it is a major blunder on Honda's part that will need to be addressed. Like I said, it is not acceptable for those whole paid a lot of money for a truck and factory hitch set-up for regular tow use.

I have not taken my vehicle in to service yet, but I will be doing so shortly to start documenting this issue.

Thanks...

I just got a call back from American Honda regarding the lack of power to the reverse light pin. Their answer was that Honda does not support the reverse wire and that they will not do anything for their customers that need it. They also reaffirmed that if we tap into the wiring system and then have a problem with the wiring system, it would not be covered under warranty. They had no answer for the fact that they marketed their expensive tow package as having a 7-pin connector but failed to mention that they only supported 6 pins. Thank you very much, Honda! Another case of reputation outstripping performance. :mad:

I just got a call back from American Honda regarding the lack of power to the reverse light pin. Their answer was that Honda does not support the reverse wire and that they will not do anything for their customers that need it. They also reaffirmed that if we tap into the wiring system and then have a problem with the wiring system, it would not be covered under warranty. They had no answer for the fact that they marketed their expensive tow package as having a 7-pin connector but failed to mention that they only supported 6 pins. Thank you very much, Honda! Another case of reputation outstripping performance. :mad:
What a crock of bull. This is the type of response/decision that will be remembered when I choose my next vehicle. Now where's that map to Detroit? :rolleyes:

Anyone remember what the marketing material claimed on the 7 pin connector?

Anyone remember what the marketing material claimed on the 7 pin connector?

This is all the website says:
Tow up to 5,000 pounds without additional coolers

Towing Package includes:
Class III trailer hitch
Trailer hitch harness with both 4- and 7-pin connectors included
Key-locking hitch pin
Either a 1-7/8" or a 2" hitch ball
Locking hitch pin helps provide an extra measure of security
7-pin connector allows use of electric trailer brakes and trailer charging system. (These systems require additional parts. Refer to your Owners Manual.)
Components included in the Towing Package are available separately

Hey guys don't mean to be rude but that sucks. Honda DOES support it or else they would not have put in on ridges made 8/24/05 and up. My Service manager is still wanting for a call back and he said that he would cover any damage under warranty if we could not resolve the issue. And has any of you guys taped into your reverse light for the 7th pin. But I am still waiting for that call be from Honda and Don't worry I will get that in writing from my service manager.

What it should have said:

Towing Package includes:
Class III trailer hitch
Trailer hitch harness with both 4- and 7-pin connectors included
Key-locking hitch pin
Either a 1-7/8" or a 2" hitch ball
Locking hitch pin helps provide an extra measure of security
7-pin connector allows use of electric trailer brakes and trailer charging system. (These systems require additional parts. Refer to your Owners Manual.) **
Components included in the Towing Package are available separately** Actually we only connect 6 of the pins and don't even bother to ask about the 7th. If you want to tow a disc brake trailer buy something else.

That is VERY disappointing. I am surprised that Honda has taken that position. I would not like to have to pay for a Honda modification to fix their error but at least they would be offering a solution for those that need one. They appear to be simply blowing off the issue rather than dealing with it. That is usually not their style. What changed, and why? Frankly, I expect them to offer a solution and a fix. Their much touted 'tow ready' and towing capability seems to be at odds with what they are now saying. When I buy a six pack I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect that there will be beer inside of all six cans, not just 5 out of 6 cans.
I have a very good working relationship with my dealer. I will ask them the same question and see what they say. I don't have a trailer now but probably will be getting one next year. It very well may need that missing connection.

I would not like to have to pay for a Honda modification to fix their error but at least they would be offering a solution for those that need one.
Well they did offer me a solution, but a darn poor one. They offered to give me a name of a company that would insure me against any damage done by towing since they won't cover it under warranty if the wiring has been modified. :eek: :mad:

That is not a solution at all. It is evading the issue. I find that kind of answer unacceptable and it tends to really get me angry to the point of escalating the issue.

I am not a happy camper at the moment, but I would be a whole lot more upset if I needed the capability right now. Since one trailer has electric brakes and the other surge drum brakes, I just very disappointed in the response from Honda. Otherwise I would be downright explosive.

What else can we do???? Please Help????

Also what do you mean by a company that will insure you will you are towing. Thank you

What else can we do???? Please Help????
I would get on the phone to Honda and complain. Maybe if enough of us do it, they will see the light, or maybe fix the light. :rolleyes:
Also what do you mean by a company that will insure you will you are towing.
I really didn't get any details because I had no interest in pursuing it, but my understanding was, for instance, if you modified the wiring system and it caused a problem, this company would insure for the cost of the repair. Honda said that it was a company that they worked with regularly.

Thanks, do you guys think that the brake light fuse (7.5amp) would be enough for a 12 watt surge break and run the brake light?

Thanks, do you guys think that the brake light fuse (7.5amp) would be enough for a 12 watt surge break and run the brake light?
Well, 12 Watts on a 12 Volt system would be 1 Amp (I = P/V). It would depend on how many amps the system currently pulls. The 2 brake lights are 21 Watts each, so 3.5 Amps for them, plus the high mount lights (couldn't find wattage for them). Needs to be less than 3 Watts total or you'll be right on the 7.5 Amp fuse.

Sorry to sound dumb but could you please explain a little better. Thank you so much for your time.

Sorry to sound dumb but could you please explain a little better. Thank you so much for your time.
Current, which is measured in amps, can be calculated by dividing power (watts) by volts (12 volts for the RL, i.e. a 12V battery).

In other words, a 7.5 amp fuse running on 12 Volts allows 12 X 7.5 for 90 Watts. All of your bulbs on that circuit added up has to be less than 90 Watts. That way you won't have to do any math. ;)

Alsome, Thanks, One more question so if i tap off the reverse brake light is the only thing on that fuse the reverse brake light and the 12 watts I need for the surge breaks. Are the rest of the main RED brake lights on a different fuse? Thanks

Alsome, Thanks, One more question so if i tap off the reverse brake light is the only thing on that fuse the reverse brake light and the 12 watts I need for the surge breaks. Are the rest of the main RED brake lights on a different fuse? Thanks
That, I don't know.

Why not wire in a switch and fuse from the battery direct thus eliminating the reverse wiring issue?

Could you explain a little more in detail? Thanks.

Why not wire in a switch and fuse from the battery direct thus eliminating the reverse wiring issue?
You only want the signal in reverse. Are you referring to using a relay that triggers off the reverse circuit, but pulls power from the battery?

Would that work?

Would that work?
I don't see why not. I suspect that's the way the RL's built after 8/24/05 work. With all the relays and fuses that get installed, I'd bet it is. Don't know how easy it would be to rig up...maybe everthing is already there and you just need to run a wire (the one missing from the harness)?

Edit: Just looked at the harness wiring diagram (last page of this file (http://www.handa-accessories.com/ridgeline/hitch.pdf)) and it doesn't appear to have the reverse light in there anywhere, unless it's labeled as "small light," which I don't think it is.

So any more idea's? Thanks

Think your right - the small light would be the trailer running lights and side marker lights.

So any more idea's? Thanks
You could still do the relay thing, you'd just have to do it from scratch. If you looked at the wiring diagram, you'd hook the reverse light wire to one side of the coil on the relay and the other side to ground, just like the 2 relays are connected now. Then you'd run the 12V through the other side of the relay, again, just like the other 2 relays are wired. You'd just have to solder the wires to the relay posts, cover with shrink wrap, and probably use double sided tape to keep the relay from rattling around. Pretty simple and it wouldn't draw any power from your reverse lights. The hard part would be running the power from the battery to the connector. You'd also need a pin to fit the wire into the proper slot on the connector.

Just noticed the wiring diagram only shows 6 pins on the socket. Is there a 7th pin unused? I assume there is.

Here's a diagram/schematic. You should be able to use the same size fuse that's on the reverse lights currently, or as recommended by the trailer. Just make sure you use large enough wire to handle the load required by the trailer, i.e. same or larger than the fuse. The 12V is the battery and the fuse should be as close to the battery as possible.

Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for anything that may go wrong if you decide to use this schematic to build your own device. Make sure you understand what you're doing and that it makes sense to you.

So any more idea's? Thanks

There are many solutions to this problem, some complex, some not and one would involve running a wire all the way back to the center pin of the 7-pin connector with an additional relay, fuse and on/off switch which is too much work for me.

We already have what we need - just need a slight modification.

Refering to the trailer wiring schematic here (page 11)
http://www.handa-accessories.com/ridgeline/hitch.pdf

We have a Charge Relay that puts +12vdc to +B pin on rear 7-pin connector that is ONLY used to charge an auxiliary battery on a camping trailer/etc.
This wire on +B pin should be huge, probably a #12 or #10 wire for charging a battery AND it is already fused for 20 amps.

Now, jumper a wire from the +B to the center pin of rear 7-pin connector.

Now, look at the control side of the Charge Relay. That relay gets energized from the Ignition On (ig1) from a blk/yel wire.
This relay only takes a few milliamps to energize, a few (1/1000th's of an amp)

Now, move this blk/yel wire from IG1 circuit to the Back-up Lights circuit.
Everytime you put your RL in reverse you energize the charge relay and put +12vdc on the center pin of the rear plug.
You may need a Service Manual to find some of these circuits but many here in this forum know these circuits and there color coding.

This will work ONLY if you don't need to charge an auxilary battery.
If you still need to charge an auxilary trailer battery then add a single pole/double throw switch to connect the Charge Relay's coil back and forth between the IG1 circuit and the Back-up Lights circuit.
But you will also have to disconnect the jumper between the +B and the center pin of the rear connector in this case, which could be done with an on/off switch.

This may sound complicated but it really isn't. The alternative is running a wire all the way back to the center pin, fusing it, switching it on and off and remembering to turn it off so your trailer brakes are not in electronic lock-out driving down the road.

The alternative is running a wire all the way back to the center pin, fusing it, switching it on and off and remembering to turn it off so your trailer brakes are not in electronic lock-out driving down the road.
The relay circuit I drew would automatically switch it on and off as you go into and out of reverse. It's basically the same circuit you discussed, except the charge relay would be intact and you'd have to run a new wire with fuse to the battery. You're way (which is the same idea) would be easiest if you don't need the charging function. Nice explanation. :D

The relay circuit I drew would automatically switch it on and off as you go into and out of reverse. It's basically the same circuit you discussed, except the charge relay would be intact and you'd have to run a new wire with fuse to the battery. You're way would be easiest if you don't need the charging function. Nice explanation. :D

You are correct, both methods will work basically the same. Your idea is very good.

My concern would be the added relay,fuse and long wire back to the 7-pin connector might be more noticeable to a Honda technician if something went wrong.
Moving the IG1 wire and jumpering the +B pin to the center pin connector could be done with a technician being hard pressed to find it.

It's really six of one and half dozen of the other.

The problem is, we are making a modification and many people won't do that for fear of warranty problems.

The best solution is for Honda to step up to the plate and give us what we expected in a 7-pin connector and a fix for this problem.
But from what I have read in these posts, Honda doesn't sound like they are willing to do that.

Joe

Joe,

I've been giving this some more thought. What if you took "my" circuit, but instead of running the +12V to the battery, you ran it to the +B on the connector. You could even fuse it smaller if you need less than the 20 Amps. You could tap into the reverse light from behind the driver's side taillight. Two bolts and it comes right out, there's room inside there to tape the relay to they inside of the fender with double sided tape, and it's easy to route wires from there down to the connector. This would give you the on/off function of the reverse light and there are no wires running to the battery and everything is hidden inside the bumper where it would be less likely to be noticed by the tech. There's even an easily reachable screw once the taillight is off that can be used for ground.

The best solution is for Honda to step up to the plate and give us what we expected in a 7-pin connector and a fix for this problem.
You hit the nail on the head right there.

Hi, guys guess What? Spoke to Honda Rep today and they said that the are sorry for the inconvience and they WILL PAY for the labor and parts of wiring backup lights. That I can have it done one of three ways listed on this forum. She spoke to an engineer and they came up with the same ways that are posted on this site. The only catch is that HONDA WILL NOT WARRANTY THE WORK. But my dealer said that they will warranty the work. They said that if something breaks as a cause from that, it will NOT be covered under warranty. But Honda Recommed aftermarket products in this situation. Honda said that there is no way to upgrade/update the harness for us. Honda said that i could go anywere i wanted for this, but I think that i am going to my dealer. My Honda Rep said that the engineer said that as long as there is no reverse lights on the trailer that the backup light for the surge breaks should do find. Honda was very good and concerned with my problem and could not say enough good things about the Rep.
Thanks guys.
Jeff

Hi, guys guess What? Spoke to Honda Rep today and they said that the are sorry for the inconvience and they WILL PAY for the labor and parts of wiring backup lights.
That's great news as long as it applies to all that need this function. I hope that they put the word out to all dealerships, telling them that Honda will pay and how to do it properly. :)

Thanks for the update!

Wait, I said honda said they will pay for the work. But they told me to have the dealer take it to a travel shop. Hope the travel shop knows how to do it right. No does this sound crazy or what. This is 100% the truth.

Wait, I said honda said they will pay for the work. But they told me to have the dealer take it to a travel shop. Hope the travel shop knows how to do it right. No does this sound crazy or what. This is 100% the truth.
Sounds OK to me. When my windshield needed replaced under warranty, it was farmed out to a local glass company. I'd rather go to someone who does the specialty work on a regular basis and not someone who is learning on my truck. :)

Hi, guys guess What? Spoke to Honda Rep today and they said that the are sorry for the inconvience and they WILL PAY for the labor and parts of wiring backup lights. That I can have it done one of three ways listed on this forum. She spoke to an engineer and they came up with the same ways that are posted on this site. The only catch is that HONDA WILL NOT WARRANTY THE WORK. But my dealer said that they will warranty the work. They said that if something breaks as a cause from that, it will NOT be covered under warranty. But Honda Recommed aftermarket products in this situation. Honda said that there is no way to upgrade/update the harness for us. Honda said that i could go anywere i wanted for this, but I think that i am going to my dealer. My Honda Rep said that the engineer said that as long as there is no reverse lights on the trailer that the backup light for the surge breaks should do find. Honda was very good and concerned with my problem and could not say enough good things about the Rep.
Thanks guys.
Jeff
That's great dolfan. So much for consistency in dealing with customer problems. All I got was the "no warranty" part. :mad:

You should call back and see what they say this time. Don't mention the previous conversation or Dolfan's results from Honda unless they still give you the run around. Also I found it help to have your issue escalated. Each escalated issue is assigned to a case manager and they have more pull than the CS Reps.

I'm due to call her back after the first of the year (her request) on the auto-unlock issue and will bring up the trailer wire issue again at that time.

I think I'll make a call to Honda too, to see what they have to say to yet another unhappy camper. If enough people call about this, maybe they'll realize that it's an issue which demands a positive resolution.

Wait, I said honda said they will pay for the work. But they told me to have the dealer take it to a travel shop. Hope the travel shop knows how to do it right. No does this sound crazy or what.

I think we need to take it slow here.

First, there is no wire to the center pin of the 7-pin Honda OEM rear trailer plug. (BTW it is designated "Back Up Lamp" on the plug cover)
I added a wire to my OEM plug today (see attachments below) and it wasn't easy.
I made the wire LONG so I can connect it anywhere I want to later.

Second, I wouldn't let a "travel shop" or whoever, other than Hoda, mess with my wiring or plug. It was time consuming and will Honda pay for that, plus all the rest of the wiring connections needed?

Now that I have the added wire I can tie it to the back-up light circuit and have it energize the surge brake lock-out circuit directly OR have it energize a 12vdc relay mounted on the trailer and have that relay put +12vdc to the brake lock-out circuit.

The trailer mounted relay would get +12vdc to it's (normally open) contacts from the B+ charge pin on the RL's rear plug via the trailers female plug. (no mod to RL)

The same 12vdc relay would get energized from the wire I added to the center pin of the RL's 7-pin plug which will be tapped into the back-up light circuit then via the trailers female plug. (very slight mod to RL)

It would be easiest to just use the back-up light circuit to energize the surge brake lock-out directly but I'm not sure how many amps are required for most of your surge brake lock-out circuits.

Some of the previous posts here have indicated that they don't know the amps needed for their lock-out circuit. Or the back-up light circuit can't handle it and some gave different wattage values such as 7 to 12 watts. Seven watts would = .583 amps and 12 watts would = only 1 amp.

The RL's two 18w back-up lamps @ 36 watts will = 3 amps and that circuit is fused for 7.5 amps which is adequate to handle a few more amps. That would make the back-up light circuit ideal and the easiest.

If someone can measure the required amps OR watts needed and post it I could design an adequate circuit. (I can convert watts if thats all you have.) Are these lock-outs a simple electrical solenoid device or are there a variety of electrical mechanisms that require different amperage?

Thanks.

Joe

P.S. The relay cost $6.29 at Radio Shack part # 275-226

It's contacts (SPST) -normally open- are rated at 30 amps.
Coil only draws 160mA (milliamps) = NO load on RL's back-up light circuit. :)

Very small, 1" x 1 " plus small mounting tab of 1/2" x 1/2".

It fits easily inside the front end of the RL's hitch receiver (with the hitch and ball in place) OR inside the tail light cover as swampler has suggested OR can be mounted along with the stock 10mm bolt that holds the harness and plug to the hitch.

Can be easily mounted and hidden on your trailer. (no mod to RL) :)

If the relay is mounted on the RL I will have to slightly modify the way it is wired for +12vdc input and the how it is energized.

Joe

If the relay is mounted on the RL I will have to slightly modify the way it is wired for +12vdc input and the how it is energized.

Wow Joe, thanks for all of the effort and thought that you have put into this. I'm interested in a solution that doesn't require the mod to be installed on the trailer since I will likely be towing various trailers that don't belong to me. If someone asks me to pull a trailer, I want to be able to simply hook up, plug in and go. I don't want to stammer around with excuses for Honda's flawed decision making process on this issue. ;)

With that said, I'm not too experienced in automotive wiring and, if I decide to do this myself, it will seem like a major undertaking to me. :eek: :)

Hi guys, don't know if this will help but, I just got off the phone with HOnda and they told me that the reverse lights are in the Primary under-hood fuse box, fuse number 13 which is a 20A fuse. She said that it is not number 7, she said number seven is XM and a couple of other things. Hopes this helps

I just got off the phone with HOnda and they told me that the reverse lights are in the Primary under-hood fuse box, fuse number 13 which is a 20A fuse. She said that it is not number 7, she said number seven is XM and a couple of other things. Hopes this helps

I wish that were true what Honda told you and if it is they will have to completely modify pages 284 & 285 of the Owners Manual and send us all updates.

To make things easier I think just adding a #16 wire to the center pin of the 7-pin rear plug and tapping it into the back-up light circuit will work fine as long as the 7.5 amp fuse will handle the added surge brake lock-out current.

That way the rear plug will work with any trailer like "ridged" has suggested above, which is a very good point.

Thats what I did. I added the wire and made it long enough to tap into any circuit later.

Still would be nice to know how many amps your trailers lock-out circuits draw.

I just checked my owner's manual and the back up fuse is listed as #7 and 7.5A, but they also list #15 as "Back Up, ACC". I assume this is the fuse (apparently a circuit breaker) for the battery charging circuit in the 7-pin connector, but why would they also list it as Back Up?

I just checked my owner's manual and the back up fuse is listed as #7 and 7.5A, but they also list #15 as "Back Up, ACC". I assume this is the fuse (apparently a circuit breaker) for the battery charging circuit in the 7-pin connector, but why would they also list it as Back Up?

That is correct, #15 fuse is a 40 amp Back Up Acc. fuse which makes sense now to me because the center pin on the rear 7-pin trailer plug is labeled "Back UP Lamp"
Look on rear trailer plug cover. Maybe their thought was the use of some real high wattage auxillary back-up lights.

Now I'm real curious, if they have a fuse for this circuit, where is the wire?

I haven't seen any sign of a wire back at the trailer plug. If it's there we have it Made!!!

Going to look for it again but I don't think it is there.

Thanks for the info, I overlooked that #15 fuse.

Joe

P.S. what is also curious is that there is a #7, 7.5 amp fuse on page 285 in the interior fuse box labeled Back Up also. I have pulled BOTH fuses and I can't get my back-up lights to go out!!! :confused:

Thanks for being the guinea pig on this joe. If it were me, the RL would be a smouldering heap by now. :D

If the relay is mounted on the RL I will have to slightly modify the way it is wired for +12vdc input and the how it is energized.Not sure I understand, maybe I missed something. Wouldn't you still pull the 12V off the +B pin of the connector? The relay on/off switch would have to be wired off of the backup lights though and the easiest place appears to be behind the driver's (or passenger's) taillight.

I assume this is the fuse (apparently a circuit breaker) for the battery charging circuit in the 7-pin connector, but why would they also list it as Back Up?

No, don't forget, the battery charging circuit at the rear plug is fused with a 20amp #9 fuse in the "secondary under hood" fuse box through the charge relay when you have the OEM hitch installed.

You can see that here on page 11
http://www.handa-accessories.com/ridgeline/hitch.pdf

You are on the right track though. :)

This is good experience to get to know the Ridgeline and how everything works.

Wouldn't you still pull the 12V off the +B pin of the connector? The relay on/off switch would have to be wired off of the backup lights though and the easiest place appears to be behind the driver's (or passenger's) taillight.

Yes, but I made two schematics, one with relay mounted on the trailer and one with relay on the RL.

If you think about it, if the relay is mounted on the RL you would have to tap into the +B wire at the rear of the Rl's plug (before the wires enter the plug) for power to the 87 contact on the relay shematic.
If it was mounted on the trailer, power would go straight trough the RL's +B pin to the trailer plug then to 87. (no tapping into wires on RL)

Same thing with energizing the coil of relay (pin 86). It would get it's power from the back-up light circuit, through center pin of Rl's plug, through trailer plug then to relay pin 86.

It's just a little different wiring hook-up between the two schematics. I should of posted them. I can later if they are needed.

You can do it either way. But I'm staying with just connecting the center pin of the trailer plug straight to the RL's back-up light circuit at the left tail light, UNLESS it can't handle the amps. Much easier - no relay install, splicing or tapping into wires and will work on any trailer.

Besides, I already installed the "missing" wire to the center pin and can do what I want with it now. :D


P.S. I'm in trouble now! I got to get off this computer! My wife just walked out the door to go Christmas shopping (AGAIN!!) :eek:
I thought we were done!
She yelled that my breakfast is on the table COLD and so is the Coffee!

Guess I'll be back later sometime. :(

But I'm staying with just connecting the center pin of the trailer plug straight to the RL's back-up light circuit at the left tail light, UNLESS it can't handle the amps. Much easier - no relay install, splicing or tapping into wires and will work on any trailer.
Based on what I've found with Google, this seems to be the standard way of doing it on other vehicles. I know that our Ridgelines have trailer wiring that's different (independent circuits) from most vehicles but, in this case, it might be prudent to take the easiest way out unless we discover a good reason not to.

Besides, I already installed the "missing" wire to the center pin and can do what I want with it now. :D
I can hardly wait to tackle this! Yeah, right. :eek: :p

She yelled that my breakfast is on the table COLD and so is the Coffee!
Breakfast at 4 pm? Sounds like you work the graveyard shift. :)

You can do it either way. But I'm staying with just connecting the center pin of the trailer plug straight to the RL's back-up light circuit at the left tail light, UNLESS it can't handle the amps. Much easier - no relay install, splicing or tapping into wires and will work on any trailer.
Yep, that is easier...just didn't know how much current the trailer would pull and if it would harm the circuit or not. Did you put any kind of diode in it to keep power from going back toward the RL or is it necessary?

That is correct, #15 fuse is a 40 amp Back Up Acc. fuse which makes sense now to me because the center pin on the rear 7-pin trailer plug is labeled "Back UP Lamp"
Look on rear trailer plug cover. Maybe their thought was the use of some real high wattage auxillary back-up lights.

Now I'm real curious, if they have a fuse for this circuit, where is the wire?

I haven't seen any sign of a wire back at the trailer plug. If it's there we have it Made!!!

Going to look for it again but I don't think it is there.

Thanks for the info, I overlooked that #15 fuse.

Joe

P.S. what is also curious is that there is a #7, 7.5 amp fuse on page 285 in the interior fuse box labeled Back Up also. I have pulled BOTH fuses and I can't get my back-up lights to go out!!! :confused:

I've no knowledge of electricity other than getting shocked from time to time, but I can tell you that as far as Honda's electrical systems are concerned, "Back Up" means back up as in redundant, not as in going backwards (i.e. putting the transmission in "R").

Years ago, my friends and I would try to tune our cars ourselves with aftermarket devices that tapped into the ECU via the MAP sensor signal wire. More often than not we messed up our short and long term fuel trim values to the point that the car performed worse after a while. The "fix" was to pull the back up fuse -- doing so disconnects backup (i.e. redundant) power to the ECU and erases the fuel trim values. This method was preferred over disconnecting the battery as you avoided having to re-enter the radio's anti-theft code and resetting the presets. :)

The ridges brake lights are not on the #7 fuse. The Honda Case manager that is assigned to my problem with the wiring pulled out the service manual and told me the fuse that it was on. She also told me what was on the #7. Also has any one just taped into there reverse light with out any problems.
Thanks

Hi guys, don't know if this will help but, I just got off the phone with HOnda and they told me that the reverse lights are in the Primary under-hood fuse box, fuse number 13 which is a 20A fuse. She said that it is not number 7, she said number seven is XM and a couple of other things. Hopes this helps
I have and assigned case worker for this problem and she is very well knowledged and very helpful.

After reading discussions here I assumed my backup light connector would work seeing it's after the 8/24/05 running change date but upon testing it found it wasn't. I finally discovered they had failed to connect a 4-pin connector at the control unit under the dash and now the backup light connector is energized when you put the truck in reverse.
The above post is from another thread by Riley. It definitely looks like we are getting the runaround by Honda. I was told by the Honda rep that not only was Honda not going to fix the problem under warranty but they did not support that function. Now we have confirmation that there was a running fix. Refusing to fix the problem and denying that it is even a function supported by Honda - is this how Honda established its reputation?

is this how Honda established its reputation?
It's how they are establishing their reputation with me, a first time Honda automotive buyer. :(

The above post is from another thread by Riley. It definitely looks like we are getting the runaround by Honda. I was told by the Honda rep that not only was Honda not going to fix the problem under warranty but they did not support that function. Now we have confirmation that there was a running fix. Refusing to fix the problem and denying that it is even a function supported by Honda - is this how Honda established its reputation?

I'm getting a little confused here. Did Riley mean the backup light is or is not energized?

"Riley--I finally discovered they had failed to connect a 4-pin connector at the control unit under the dash and now the backup light connector is (not?) energized when you put the truck in reverse."

When I had the OEM hitch installed the 4-pin gray connector shown in center of page 212 of the Owners Manual was evidently installed because everything works on my RL as shown on the schematic on page 11 here:

http://www.handa-accessories.com/ridgeline/hitch.pdf

But it has nothing to do with backup lights so I'm not sure if Riley is refering to our surge brake lock-out problem.

Looking at this schematic it is very simple, I'll follow it through, print it for reference.

The 4-pin connector is right under the the battery (on schematic)
+12v comes from battery through 20amp fuse #6 (blue wire.)
Stop Switch circuit comes in on white/black wire & goes on to converter.
+12v then appears at brown/white wire and goes to "electric brake" pin on rear 7-pin trailer plug. (when brakes are applied)

The fact is Honda did not wire the center pin of this plug. This is the pin we would use to activate the surge brake reverse lock-out.
I installed a wire to the center pin to use at will.

Also, read the left side of page 212 in the OM. It is very interesting that Honda describes the criteria and requirment for trailer brakes, even describing electric and surge brakes for boat trailers.
Omitting the center pin circuit is curious, was it intentional or an oversight?

BTW, the OEM harness and circuits have many advatages.
The RL's "running lights", small lights as Honda calls them, comes in on the red/black wire and energizes the "small light relay" which is fused for 20amps fuse #7. You can have as mant lights on your trailer as you want and it won't effect the RL's small light circuit.

Also when you turn the ignition ON it energizes the "charge relay" putting 20amp fused +12v on the +B pin at trailer plug for any accessories you want there.

The big advantage is the "converter". When you hit the brakes it takes the RL's "right - left" turn signal circuits, red/blue wire, brn wire and converts them to the old standard system.

Here's the link to my post http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4039

My build date is 11/05.
Hitch and harness dealer installed at time of purchase.
Center connector of 7-pin trailer connector wasn't getting power when in reverse.
Unplug coupler under rear bumper, do a continuity test from center pin and find that it's the middle wire in the middle row of the connector (blue I believe) so the connection does exist on the newer rear harnesses (just getting a newer harness won't help by itself though if you're existing wiring doesn't have a backup wire in it to get the power to your rear harness).
They left the instructions you linked to (dated Feb 2005) in my truck. I originally thought the unattached, 4-pin brake controller pigtail (don't have a brake controller yet) attached to an unused connector taped to the control unit they installed. This unused connector was taped up and pointing up so I couldn't see its design and never compared it to the brake controller pigtail. The revelation of what was possibly wrong came when I found another unused 4-pin connector taped above the emergency brake pedal and figured out that this is where the brake controller pigtail plugs in. So back to the unused 4-pin on the control unit they installed - felt around where the 10-pin connector referenced in the install instructions came out and found another 4-pin connector (not visible, could only feel it). So I cut the tape and pulled it down (so there are 2 4-pin connectors on my truck and I would assume all builds after 8/24/05, one for an electric trailer brake controller(above the parking brake-all RL's should have this one) and one to add the backup light functionality - I think both these connectors are installed at the factory and not part of the trailer wiring harness the dealer added but don't know that for sure). Did a continuity test on the end blue wire of this plug back to the center connector of the 7-pin trailer connector and it had continuity. So I plugged it in to the control unit harness and I now have power to the center pin when the truck is in reverse and the ignition switch is on (albeit probably not a whole lot of power as the wire(s) are fairly small).
I'd like to see the install structions for the post 8/24/05 harness and I'm guessing the extra 4-pin control unit connector would be referenced. Anybody seen one?
Also, the reason for my previous thread, was to see if anybody elses 'P'ark and 'R'everse lights both light up as red and green respectively with the ignition switch in position I (accessory) as mine are both lit up as selected now and it caught my attention as possibly not being that way before. I'm guessing that most people's only lights the 'P' as red and all the rest are white in position I. If so, maybe this connector really doesn't belong here or I messed something up when I was messing around under the dash or this is a side effect or ??? Would really like to find somebody with a build date of 09/05 or after with the factory hitch wiring harness (and their back-up light connector works) tell me what they see in position I (accessory) as far as gear selection indicator lights.
Hope this made at least some sense - sorry it was so long.

As I am reading all of these post's I am thinking how thankful I am to have found the ROC website. Without the imput of all of you members I would not have know about the problems with the wiring harness. Luckily, I don't have to worry about towing my boat until at least April. I am hoping buy than Honda will step up and offer a new harness that allows the reverse light pin to properly release my surge brakes. Thanks to all who have provided valued information. For now I am taking a wait and see approach.

Here's the link to my post http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4039

My build date is 11/05.
Hitch and harness dealer installed at time of purchase.
Center connector of 7-pin trailer connector wasn't getting power when in reverse.
Unplug coupler under rear bumper, do a continuity test from center pin and find that it's the middle wire in the middle row of the connector (blue I believe) so the connection does exist on the newer rear harnesses (just getting a newer harness won't help by itself though if you're existing wiring doesn't have a backup wire in it to get the power to your rear harness).
They left the instructions you linked to (dated Feb 2005) in my truck. I originally thought the unattached, 4-pin brake controller pigtail (don't have a brake controller yet) attached to an unused connector taped to the control unit they installed. This unused connector was taped up and pointing up so I couldn't see its design and never compared it to the brake controller pigtail. The revelation of what was possibly wrong came when I found another unused 4-pin connector taped above the emergency brake pedal and figured out that this is where the brake controller pigtail plugs in. So back to the unused 4-pin on the control unit they installed - felt around where the 10-pin connector referenced in the install instructions came out and found another 4-pin connector (not visible, could only feel it). So I cut the tape and pulled it down (so there are 2 4-pin connectors on my truck and I would assume all builds after 8/24/05, one for an electric trailer brake controller(above the parking brake-all RL's should have this one) and one to add the backup light functionality - I think both these connectors are installed at the factory and not part of the trailer wiring harness the dealer added but don't know that for sure). Did a continuity test on the end blue wire of this plug back to the center connector of the 7-pin trailer connector and it had continuity. So I plugged it in to the control unit harness and I now have power to the center pin when the truck is in reverse and the ignition switch is on (albeit probably not a whole lot of power as the wire(s) are fairly small).
I'd like to see the install structions for the post 8/24/05 harness and I'm guessing the extra 4-pin control unit connector would be referenced. Anybody seen one?
Also, the reason for my previous thread, was to see if anybody elses 'P'ark and 'R'everse lights both light up as red and green respectively with the ignition switch in position I (accessory) as mine are both lit up as selected now and it caught my attention as possibly not being that way before. I'm guessing that most people's only lights the 'P' as red and all the rest are white in position I. If so, maybe this connector really doesn't belong here or I messed something up when I was messing around under the dash or this is a side effect or ??? Would really like to find somebody with a build date of 09/05 or after with the factory hitch wiring harness (and their back-up light connector works) tell me what they see in position I (accessory) as far as gear selection indicator lights.
Hope this made at least some sense - sorry it was so long.


Very good explanation and yes it does make sense.

You are the first one that I have heard of that actually has power to the center pin of the 7-pin rear plug when in reverse.

My RL build date is 04/2005 and the OEM harness and circuitry were dealer installed when I purchased it in 6/2005.

I didn't even get a wire to the center pin! :mad:

You seem to be in good shape in regards to the surge brake reverse lock-out feature.

I PM'd you on the 'P'ark and 'R'everse indicator light matter.

Joe.

Please, everyone call the Honda Customer Support number and let them know of your displeasure about the pin #7 omission. their explanation, to me, was that they didn't want people towing the kind of trailer that uses backup lights (moving van type trailer). I 'educated' them about reverse lockout, surge brakes and that they better provide a 7th pin function when they advertise such. They are going to have my dealer wire the 7th pin for me.

I also told them that if I wanted to pull a semi-type trailer I'd buy a semi.

Thanks.

froggy

Please, everyone call the Honda Customer Support number and let them know of your displeasure about the pin #7 omission. their explanation, to me, was that they didn't want people towing the kind of trailer that uses backup lights (moving van type trailer).
I don't recall agreeing to anything that gave Honda the right to decide which type of trailer that I am allowed to pull with MY truck and I don't recall any disclaimers or warning against using a trailer with backup lights. In my opinion, it's a crummy excuse for their lack of foresight on this issue. Otherwise, they would have applied the same logic to the rest of the truck and, for instance, put no bottom in the truck's bed in order to protect against overloading.

I originally planned to simply work around/correct the issue and forget about it but, based on their response to you, I now plan to honor your request to call them and voice my concerns.

Update: I have called Honda Customer Service (1-800-999-1009) and was advised that they will assign a case manager who will call me back within two business days. I'll calmly explain the situation and then, if the response is negative, I plan to ROC his/her world. ;)

Update: I have called Honda Customer Service (1-800-999-1009) and was advised that they will assign a case manager who will call me back within two business days. I'll calmly explain the situation and then, if the response is negative, I plan to ROC his/her world. ;)
Well, I spoke to the case manager and he said, in essence, that I was on my own as far as getting this fixed. He said that they recommend U-Haul to add the extra wiring. He told me that Honda did not support the seventh wire in the harness. When advised that new models do support it, he first denied and then confirmed the info and said that Honda sometimes makes improvements based on customer feedback. When I commented that I felt somewhat cheated for being an early adopter, he offered nothing, saying that that's the way it goes.

Between this response and my unhappiness with my local dealership, I probably won't buy another Honda. My original plan was to drive the wheels off of this Ridge (my first Honda) and then buy another. I then considered replacing the Ridge with another Ridge in a couple of years, after some of the bugs are worked out. While ALL Honda customers deserve to be treated well, I feel that Honda and the dealerships should go the extra mile for first-time Honda owners and even further for early adopters. Obviously they don't agree. :(

I got basicly the same response to my call ridged, and have the same feelings, but I'm not through with them yet. I gonna hammer on them a little more.

I gonna hammer on them a little more.
Let me know if there's anything that I can do to help straighten this bent nail. ;)

I have some good news to pass along…Honda fixed my 7-pin connector with no fuss! :) After explaining to the local service manager my need for the 7-pin connector to be properly wired to accommodate disc surge brakes on my bass boat trailer, the dealership contacted the regional service manager and received permission to do the work as “goodwill” free on charge and fully warranted. Based on all the background in the ROC forums, I was able to carefully and in detail explain to the local service manager what the problem was (Honda did not wire the center pin on the early builds), and what the proposed solutions were (thanks to swampler and joz ridg and others). I took my Ridge into the dealer and left it for the day, and Honda sublet the work to a local RV shop. The RV shop ran a long wire from the battery (with a 30 amp inline fuse at the battery) to a relay installed near the hitch. The relay is tied into the driver’s side backup light wiring, with the output wire feeding the middle pin which gives 12 volts when in reverse (just as swampler suggested early on in this thread). The good news is that my local service manager was proactive and got the solution/fix accomplished within a few days of my inquiry. What surprised me is that Honda sublet the work. The bad news is that the sublet work was subpar (very poor craftsmanship would be a better description). While at the dealership inspecting the work with the service manager, I carefully pulled on the wiring at the battery to see if it was crimped properly, and the first wire I tensioned pulled right off. Not a good start, and the service manager seemed embarrassed as he called for parts and crimped on a new connector. When I got home, I crawled under the truck to see how the long wire was run, and was immediately disappointed. The long wire was run under the frame so that the wire became the low point and would easily become parted/crushed by debris or bottoming out, and the wire was not strapped down, just tensioned (in all the wrong places). When the wiring harness to the backup lights was accessed, the installer pulled the harness down to make it easier to connect, then left the harness hanging between the bumper cover and the frame instead of rerouting it up high as originally installed, again leaving the wiring in a precarious place where it could easily be damaged. When I put my meter on the center pin to test for 12v, there was no voltage until I wiggled the relay and wiring and received intermittent voltage. Needless to say, I nearly blew a fuse (no pun intended). When I couldn’t reach the service manager right away by phone, I called the RV shop and emphatically explained my dissatisfaction with the job, and let them know I had a call into Honda. The RV shop asked me to bring the truck in right away and stated they would move it to the top of the list to be worked on as soon as I arrived, which they did. They put the “head” installer on the job, and he reworked the entire job and made it right as I watched. Now the wiring/relay are done properly and the center pin works just right. This is not a complicated job, just a job which requires some attention to detail and a bit of common sense. I’m surprised Honda did not do the work themselves instead of subletting it out. Bottom line is that Honda did right by me (despite the initial poor job by the RV shop). I encourage anyone who needs the center pin to be wired properly (especially you fellow fishermen) to keep at Honda until they make the repair. Ask the local service manager to go to the regional service manager and get permission to have the work done at goodwill. Not wiring the center pin on the 7-pin connector was simply oversight in the early production runs. Honda advertised a 7-pin towing harness connector, therefore logic dictates that the 7-pin connector has to be wired to standard convention. I predict Honda will ultimately have to issue a safety recall on this, because it’s only a manner of time before there is an unfortunate incident when some unsuspecting Ridgeline driver tries to back up a trailer with disc surge brakes and gets into or causes an accident when he/she can’t back the trailer up, not to mention the fist fight which is sure to break out when a Ridgeline cannot back a boat down the ramp at 4am in the morning of the big tournament and starts holding up the rest of the good old boys in line with their adrenaline running and the caffeine revving their brains. BTW, my Honda service manager is a bass fisherman and understood right off my need to have the 7-pin connector fixed lol .

What is your dealers name & location?

TIA

tlaudio, I just sent you PM.

In my experience, "running a wire to the battery" is generally done in a less than professional manner, especially the attachment to the battery itself. I've actually seen stripped wire wrapped around the post on a side-mount battery between the regular connector and the battery.

A much more elegant solution than what they used for you is what they did for Webwader. Everything's there back near the hitch that you need.

Take power from the B+/charge lead (dedicated 20 amp circuit, on when ignition on) fuse at 7.5amps (like the "real" towing backup circuit) and into a relay's contacts then on to the center pin of the conductor.

Tap into the backup light circuit and use that to power the coil of the relay.

No big long ugly run of exposed wire under the vehicle, no crappy attachment to the battery.

In my experience, "running a wire to the battery" is generally done in a less than professional manner, especially the attachment to the battery itself. I've actually seen stripped wire wrapped around the post on a side-mount battery between the regular connector and the battery.

A much more elegant solution than what they used for you is what they did for Webwader. Everything's there back near the hitch that you need.

Take power from the B+/charge lead (dedicated 20 amp circuit, on when ignition on) fuse at 7.5amps (like the "real" towing backup circuit) and into a relay's contacts then on to the center pin of the conductor.

Tap into the backup light circuit and use that to power the coil of the relay.

No big long ugly run of exposed wire under the vehicle, no crappy attachment to the battery.

Great idea!

Thank you for your help!

Does anyone have any info the backup voltage from the 7-pin adapter to release surge brake system on trailer for 06 rtl.

Does anyone have any info the backup voltage from the 7-pin adapter to release surge brake system on trailer for 06 rtl.

Center pin should be +12 volts constant while the truck is in reverse...

So i take it this is going to be an issue still on 07's? Great, I am on my way to pick up the new boat and aside from picking up the proper adapter to get the surge brake to function i thought i was good to go. Im a tad miffed that the so called 7 pin plug doesnt support the back up light.

Arg, I may try calling the dealer..who is two hrs in the wrong direction.

p

Nevermind i stoped an picked up a tester and i have power on the center pin. Must have been an update on the harness that i didnt catch in the thread.

The change was made in late '05, ninegrand.

The 7th pin was not functional on Ridgelines built before 8/2005. The issue was resolved on all Ridgelines built after 9/2005.

I too had the same issue. The dealer located the problem with the connection under the dash. The connection with-in the plug had bent and caused it to have no power. They replaced it. It would be a big fluke for there to be that many of us with the same problem, but good luck.

Special thanks to Grimloktt, with his post Here (http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=251301&postcount=33)

I have a 2007 Ridgeline RTL, which came with the towing package from the factory. I just purchased a new bass boat with surge (disc) brakes, which requires the backup/reverse. I was shocked to see that the center pen was not getting any voltage in reverse. Searching on these forums, I was shocked that in 2007, they didn’t fix a problem that has existed since the 2005 models. Grimloktt stated that his 7-way plug had the yellow wire so it looked like it was wired, as did mine. He said that there was a 4 pin plug not connected under the dash. I took the following installation manual with me to reference and follow the installation steps to ensure everything was done properly.

Hitch Install Manual (http://www.handa-accessories.com/ridgeline/hitch.pdf)

Well, long story short, my 4 pin plug was not connected either. I’m surprised that the factory didn’t plug it in. On step 9 on page 4 of the hitch.pdf instructions, it says to remove the blue tape. The Control Unit Harness is bolted next to the steering column (10mm socket). I had to unbolt it in order to see the actual 4 pin wire (taped really high with black tape). The 4 pin plug is taped to the Control Unit with blue tape. After plugging in this connector, my reverse circuit now works. Thanks to all who have contributed to the forum. It really helped me.

Pictures below.
1st picture - shows where the blue tape was
2nd picture - shows the 4 pin plug connected (the one with foam around it)
3rd picture - shows Control Unit bolted above steering column