I was wondering, has anyone performed a second diff oil change? Was it another about 13,000-14,000 miles? Or was it futher apart this time?

I got to thinking while getting mine changed this morning that Honda might call for the first change to be sooner and spaced out the rest further apart...

I thought the 1st was at 15k, then every 30k after that, but someone else posted that their dealer told them every 15k. I hope I'm right, but don't know yet.

Well, I am going with the minder on this. Whle I don't think another 2k would kill the rear diff, I am being cautious on this one. First year truck, who knows what can happen. I prefer not to give my local dealers and doubt about warranty if something happens.


I am hoping though that the after the 1st, the rest of the changes are spaced out futher.

Well, I am going with the minder on this. Whle I don't think another 2k would kill the rear diff, I am being cautious on this one. First year truck, who knows what can happen. I prefer not to give my local dealers and doubt about warranty if something happens.


I am hoping though that the after the 1st, the rest of the changes are spaced out futher.
I didn't mean to imply I'm going by 30k and hoping nothing happens (I just read your post on the other thread), rather I'm hoping the maintenance minder doesn't alert me again until 30k that I need the service. I too, plan to follow the MM for my service schedules.

I was the poster who said every 15K for Diff fluid and this came from my Honda Dealership and also confirmed by another who just had the service done and his Dealership said the same - every 15K. I too am interested in who gets the 2nd service minder about Diff change and at what mileage it comes up at and also if it is indeed tied somehow to when the Oil Monitor is reset. There still is mystery surrounding this tie in between the Oil Monitor and other service minders and since the documentation given us by Honda is terrible when it comes to what service intervals to expect we are left guessing at these answers. I for one am not happy with Honda treating us like some brainless children and not giving us a difinitive service interval chart in our Owners manual. This is the first vehicle I have owned that such a chart was not included in owner's book and I can't for the life of me figure why anyone at Honda thought this was worthwhile to leave out.

Per the owner's manual:
"Replace VTM-4 rear differential fluid: Driving in mountainous areas at very low vehicle speeds or trailer towing results in higher level of mechanical (shear) stress to fluid or frequently fully loaded. This requires differential fluid changes more frequently than recommended by the Maintenance Minder. If you regularly drive your vehicle under these conditions, have the differential fluid changed at 7,500 miles (12,000 km), then every 15,000 miles (24,000 km)."

It states nothing about when to change it under normal driving conditions so it must just want you to follow the MM.

I for one am not happy with Honda treating us like some brainless children and not giving us a difinitive service interval chart in our Owners manual.I think the point is that the MM gives a better indication of when this stuff needs to be changed than a hard and fast schedule because everyone drives differently and in different conditions. As a result, the MM should be more accurate on an individual basis than a specified, generic, service interval.

I will agree though that it would be nice to have an interval chart in order to have some idea what is coming up soon.

Per the owner's manual:
"Replace VTM-4 rear differential fluid: Driving in mountainous areas at very low vehicle speeds or trailer towing results in higher level of mechanical (shear) stress to fluid or frequently fully loaded. This requires differential fluid changes more frequently than recommended by the Maintenance Minder. If you regularly drive your vehicle under these conditions, have the differential fluid changed at 7,500 miles (12,000 km), then every 15,000 miles (24,000 km)."

I remain open minded and your quote from the manual is somewhat hinting that Honda believes there is a 1/2 time break in and change period for the 1st Diff fluid service. If you "translate" this to mean that normal driving is at ~ 15K for first change, than double that for all subsequent changes would be at 30K each subsequent. Why can't they just come out and say this for regular usage drivers. How many owner's did they think were going to use the Ridgeline like a RAM 3500.

Dealers always quote the servere duty as what you should follow (so they'll get more of your money), so that would reconcile my 30k guideline with your dealer's recommendation of 15k. Greedy Bastids! :mad:

I didn't mean to imply I'm going by 30k and hoping nothing happens (I just read your post on the other thread), rather I'm hoping the maintenance minder doesn't alert me again until 30k that I need the service. I too, plan to follow the MM for my service schedules.

Oh yeah, I agree with you fully. I am hoping it is further apart after the first change.

I was the poster who said every 15K for Diff fluid and this came from my Honda Dealership and also confirmed by another who just had the service done and his Dealership said the same - every 15K. I too am interested in who gets the 2nd service minder about Diff change and at what mileage it comes up at and also if it is indeed tied somehow to when the Oil Monitor is reset. There still is mystery surrounding this tie in between the Oil Monitor and other service minders and since the documentation given us by Honda is terrible when it comes to what service intervals to expect we are left guessing at these answers. I for one am not happy with Honda treating us like some brainless children and not giving us a difinitive service interval chart in our Owners manual. This is the first vehicle I have owned that such a chart was not included in owner's book and I can't for the life of me figure why anyone at Honda thought this was worthwhile to leave out.

The system is not just an oil change monitor. It infact tells you when everything is supposed to be changed, with a few exception. The system takes into account a lot of variable and driving conditions and calculates when you need to chagne things. This is a MUCH superior system than hard schedule as those do not take into account driving conditions other than "normal" vs "severe". Beacuse the system does calculations based on these variables, surely honda cannot print a schedule on a piece of paper, as it does not apply to everyone. I might drive 99% freeway while another owner 99% city. The change requirements for these two owners are different.

My question relates to whether honda purposely made the first change sooner to flush out the gunk in the diff, or if it is just supposed to be this way always. And this is why I am asking. It seems that most that have had to do the B6 service have been around 12,000-15,000 range. Thus if someone does the second one around 45,000, it would give an indication that the second change period is infact longer.

I agree that the 2nd Diff change question is the real question in this thread that cannot be answered by us guessing. And maybe the monitor system is the expert at when changes need to be made. I am involved in various types of artificial intelligence programming projects at work and once you get past the first few levels of guessing what comes next, the answers become much more difficult to rely upon. My problem with this Maintenance System is ultimately that Honda does not publish its basis for the 2nd and beyond level answer criteria and it is frustrating to just sit around and let the vehicle "remind" me when to change a replaceable fluid or whatever. It has just become the "principal of the thing" to me that I cannot get a straight answer or a range of answers from my Owner's manual.

I am at 17,000 miles and have not had the MM tell me to change yet. I follow it for oil change schedule. I remember Gary Flint stating in his interview with the ROC, that changing oil and resetting MM earlier than recommended would increase service times for all MM items.

My first "B6" code occurred last week and I am scheduled to have the service done this Friday. I will be almost exactly 14,000 miles when I have this done, and >10% on the MM. I changed the oil the first time at 7K and >10% as well. I am also interested in when the next change will happen. I'll make sure I ask at the dealership, but am not holding my breath - they told me I needed to get the oil changed every 3K. The vast majority of my driving is highway (probably 80%).

-ridgeln

From the Honda OwnerLink Web site regarding the VTM fluid change (MM Code 6):

"Replace VTM-4 rear differential fluid: Driving in mountainous areas at very low vehicle speeds or trailer towing results in higher level of mechanical (shear) stress to fluid or frequently fully loaded. This requires differential fluid changes more frequently than recommended by the Maintenance Minder. If you regularly drive your vehicle under these conditions, have the differential fluid changed at 7,500 miles (12,000 km), then every 15,000 miles (24,000 km)."

Sounds to me like this is one-half the MM recommendation - if so, then "normal" use will result in 15K for the first, then 30K for all the rest.

-ridgeln

The truth is WHAT is in the rear diff. Domestics come with full sys fluid and don't require change till 100K
The rear calls for a vtm-4 and NOT some 90w oil. (which lasts longer)

I plan on the break in change then depending my towing useage, change it sooner.

heat is the #1 killer in drivetrain fluids...............

I just had my first service and asked so many questions about service intervals, TSBs, etc.. that the service manager just started printing out the computer screens that they work on and gave them to me. Unfortunately for all of us involved in speculating answers in this thread, the service managers have no magic information about VTM4 change intervals that we don't already "know" about by reading the manual. They too are relying on the owner's Maintenance Minder to guide them in when to change the VTM4, and if the service writer is competent, they will inquire about your driving style to help make some additional maintenance recommendations outside the maintenance minder schedule. My dealer did not know the answer to when the 2nd Maintenance minder was "supposed" to come on for code B6, but he did an "expert" guess at around 45K (if that came on at 15K).

I am finally seeing b6 on my dash at 11,700Mi. But my question is this. I do all my own maintenance on my vehicles, but have never had a 4x4 to deal with before. Is this something i want to do myself, or is it worth taking in? If so, is it a pricey service?

I have over 19k on mine and I've never seen this "B6" code you're talking about. Where might I see it? I am now in need of an oil change, but I don't see any indication that my vtm4 fluid needs changing. Help me find out, thanks! :eek:

There is a slim, remote possibility that you have not received a B6 because your Oil monitor driven intervals are very long. The B6 is an oil change recommendation with additional services to be performed at that time. Like all service messages, an oil change is always involved - in a type A only oil is recommended (many of us will do a filter at that time anyway because we feel it is helpful, but Honda does not really have that same feeling about filters every time) and in type B the filter is mandated. The additional service numbers after the A or B are all "scheduled" around how your oil seems to be wanting to be changed (and Honda is trying to make the service streemlined by doing more than one thing when you are in the shop - although I feel this is benefitting them more than us). Say if you had your first oil change (probably an A1 - oil plus tire rotation) at 10,000 miles (this is why I say slim/remote chance this happens), the maintenance scheduler may think the B6 shouldn't come until 20,000. You are saying you need an oil change now, is this because the maintenance minder is giving you a code in the display window, or because you just feel about ready by the mileage on the truck? It is also possible your dealer saw the B6 and just did an oil change the last time but did not do the VTM fluid. When he reset your maintenance window, the B6 would have disappeared and hopefully this is not what happened to you.

I don't remember exactly when I had my past oil changes, but they were at about 9k (I know, that was waaaay to long to go, but the story to explain it is even longer!), and one other one before this one which seems to be too soon now that I think about it. Let's see. I only get the oil changed when the MM tells me to. If it was reset at about 9k then I should've been reminded again at about 16.5k, all things being 'normal.' Maybe my last oil change was actually supposed to be a "b" service and the idiots didn't notice it and just changed the oil because that's what I asked for! I can't remember if it was a "b" code the last time or not. This time the code is "A1" so I need an oil change. Doesn't seem right to need another one so soon. Does any of this make sense? Not to me! I think I need to get a base line established. Get the oil and vtm4 fluid changed now, reset the MM, and keep an eye on it.

I am finally seeing b6 on my dash at 11,700Mi. But my question is this. I do all my own maintenance on my vehicles, but have never had a 4x4 to deal with before. Is this something i want to do myself, or is it worth taking in? If so, is it a pricey service?

Many ROC members have performed this maintenance, including myself.
The trickiest part is "pumping the oil into the differential. I used a fluid transfer pump (~$5-$10 at an auto parts store), but next time I will probably use a large syringe for better control and cleanup.

Note: you will need 2 washers (different sizes) and I could only find the VTM-4 fluid at the Honda dealer.

I looked online to see what my local Honda dealer charges for VTM-4 fluid change...$129.95 now on "special" for $116.95! What a ripoff. I'll be doing it myself. I have a pump but will probably get a new, clean one. How much fluid do I need? I can get it tomorrow if the parts department is open.

I looked online to see what my local Honda dealer charges for VTM-4 fluid change...$129.95 now on "special" for $116.95! What a ripoff. I'll be doing it myself. I have a pump but will probably get a new, clean one. How much fluid do I need? I can get it tomorrow if the parts department is open.

You need 1-gallon. Check this out...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TWO-Gallons-Honda-Acura-VTM-4-Differential-Fluid_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33731QQitemZ80318 69962QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Thanks, I found that ebay guy selling one gallon for five bucks plus ten for shipping. Comes out the same for the first two gallons, then he gives a break for extra two gallon quantities. If we ordered 10 gallons, it would cost a total of $130.00 which is (obviously) $13.00 per gallon -- not too shabby! Then we'd have to distribute them to the members who need them. Guess it would only work regionally where we could group together and pick up/drop off the orders to each other. Just a thought. I don't need two gallons, and don't really think I'd want to store a gallon for another 30k miles since it took me 10 months to go the first 19k, it'd take me almost a year and a half before I'd need the second gallon.

I noticed that there are several south Florida members, and quite a few southern California members. Seems like those two regions could possibly put something together. PM me if you're interested in a south Florida group purchase. Anybody interested in coordinating one for another region?

EDIT: I hope I'm not violating any forum rules by posting this here. It just kind of happened!

what's a good syntetic differ oil do you guys/gals proposed on using? Is everyone here sticking with Honda's OEM differ oil or going with a different brand?

Didn't want to leave this thread hangin'
:)
I got my diff oil changed at the dealership the other day for $53.35 -- not too bad! I now don't plan to buy any oil as stated above.;)

what's a good syntetic differ oil do you guys/gals proposed on using? Is everyone here sticking with Honda's OEM differ oil or going with a different brand?

To the best of my knowledge there is no aftermarket replacement for Honda VTM-4 fluid. I know little about this fluid and it may be synthetic to start with.

Then of course you could call Amsoil and I'm SURE they will come up with one of their products that they will tell you replaces VTM-4. Amsoil will tell you they have a replacement for anything... even if they've never heard of it before, and unfortunately there are enough gullable people out there that use the stuff.

Stick with Honda VTM-4 fluid on this one.

-Joe

Since the rear diff isn't a "normal" diff but has clutch packs as well, I would stick with the Honda fluid.

-W

A very good point. Another good reason to use Honda oil products in this situation especially if you are still under warranty. How much VTM-4 fluid is needed/required for a change?

Rear Differential Fluid - Use Honda VTM-4 Fluid 2.64L or 2.79 US qt. Torque the drain plug to 35 lbf-ft and reinstall with a new washer. Proper fluid level is even with the bottom of the drain opening. Both the drain and fill plugs use a 3/8 drive ratchet as a "special" tool. VTM-4 Fluid (P/N 0822-9003)

TL

A very good point. Another good reason to use Honda oil products in this situation especially if you are still under warranty. How much VTM-4 fluid is needed/required for a change?

I believe one gallon plus 2 lock washers (one for the fill plug and one for the drain plug), for a total of about $25.00 at the dealership. Of course, you'll also need a pump (about $10) and some time to do it. I have the pump, but figured I'd let them do it since it was only another $25 bucks or so (I already have a pump).

My Ridgeline was real noisy before the change, now it's as quiet as a church mouse.

Proper fluid level is even with the bottom of the drain opening.
TL
Please note that this in only applicable if you've turned your truck over for easier access - otherwise you'll want to fill to the bottom of the fill hole! Seriously though, thanks for the info. Any torque spec for the fill plug and part #'s for the washers?

Also want to reiterate that others have suggested/recommended not reusing a pump, syringe, tubing, or anything that's been used for other fluids due to the risk of even the slightest contamination - I don't personally know for a fact that this can cause problems but to me it wouldn't be worth the risk.

I have to get that service manual from HandA ordered before the month's over . . . http://www.handa-accessories.com/roc.html

Hope I didn't mislead anybody with my guess at 1 gallon...I jumped to the conclusion that we needed one 'bottle' and I thought the 'bottle' held a gallon. Either way, filling it until it leaks out the fill hole is really the only way to do it no matter how much someone says to put in.

The crush washers, again I apologize for my inaccuracies above where I referred to them as 'lock' washers, are easy to get at the local dealership -- if they're good guys at the counter, they'll probably just toss you a couple for nothing!

I wonder what I was on when I posted that last post! :o

Here's a pic to help with location;

Here's a pic to help with location;

There are a lot of bolts there. Which ones are what? The top two atop each other are 3/4" rather than 3/8" so I know they are not the drain and intake. I can't tell which ones to unscrew.

The fill (top) and drain (bottom) bolts (they're really cap screws) are square socket head bolts, not hex head bolts like the case bolts. A 3/8" square socket wrench or socket extension will fit inside the bolt head.

From the manual:

Rear Differential Fluid Inspection and Replacement.

1. With the vehicle on level ground, inspect the differential fluide the the ignition switch OFF.

2. Remove the oil filler Plug (A) and sealing washer (B), then check the condition of the fluid, and make sure the fluid is at the proper level (C).

*filled to the bottom part of the filler nut*

3. The fluid level must be up to the fill hole. If it is below the hole, add the recommended fluid until it runs out, then reinstall the oil filler plug with a NEW sealing washer.

4. If the differential fluid is dirty, remove the drain plug (D) and sealing washer (B) then drain the fluid.

5. Clean the drain plug, then reinstall with a NEW washer, and refill the differential with the recommended fluid to the proper level.

Fluid Capacity 2.64 L (2.79 US qt.) at fluid change

Recommended fluid: (P.N 0822-9003)

6. Reinstall the oil filer plug with a NEW washer


Tighten (4.8 kgf.m, 35 lbf-ft)

My truck is at 23K miles, should I change oil in the diff ???

Thanks guys. I went under there (should have done that first I guess) and it was obvious once I eyeballed the layout. I just finished the drain and fill and it was a piece of cake - once I finally got those darn bolts out. I had new washers and tightened them snug but I guarantee they are not as tight as the factory had them. There is no reason to have them on that tight. I had a cheap pump from Harbor Freight that I bought for about six bucks and it worked like a charm. I waited until I had 20,000 miles and the fluid looked great. The magnetic drain bolt had a few shavings but nothing out of the ordinary. All in all not bad for an hour's work and I also rotated the tires since I had all fours up on stands. Plus, I probably saved around a hundred bucks on dealer labor as the fluid and washers were under $30.

To ProHonda: Yes. I think if you drive normal you can make it to 23,000 miles but I would go no further. Usually, this service falls on the maintenance minder at B6, which comes to most of us around 12,000-15,000 miles. The manual says change the diff fluid at 7,500 miles if you drive under certain conditions (hills and mountains, eg). If you drive under those conditions listed in the manual you are way over due. I live in Texas and it is pretty flat around here and the only thing I trailer or haul are my golf bags. I put no stress on it at all with my driving habits and conditions so I was confident in going to 20,000 miles with the factory fill. I go with the OLM EVERY time, however, when it comes to oil change intervals.

As I said before, I don't know if you can tell anything from just looking but my fluid had 20,000 miles on it and it looked clean with the same color as the new stuff. But if I were you I would consider a change pretty soon.

TY Shortspark


WELL never got a B message telling me to change it.

Stuff is cheap at the dealer to buy, I will change it out myself.

I will send this crud to Blackstone and see what the change inteval should be............

TY Shortspark


WELL never got a B message telling me to change it.

Stuff is cheap at the dealer to buy, I will change it out myself.

I will send this crud to Blackstone and see what the change inteval should be............

You have 23,000 miles and never saw a B6? I suppose if you reset the maintenance minder more often than when service is due that might happen but I'm not sure of that. Anyway, let us know what Blackstone says in their report. I use them for my used oil analysis and they are very good. Basically, I learned that going by the OLM with regular dino oil is a good indicator for oil change intervals. An analysis every now and then is money well spent.