Q1000
12-23-2005, 04:51 PM
This is out of a thread I found on CRSX. This is what I posted in reply to it. I just figured that there are more educated people on here that know more about the ridge in detail then me, and could better reply to this.
Originally Posted by Q1000
- No truck should have a unibody design. Why not?
- No truck should have an independant rear suspension. Why Not?
- Still the smallest bed in length and width, with no cover available. Do Your Home Work Retrax, A.R.E., Leer and OEM make caps and covers for it
- One configuration, when its competition offers many combos of 4wd/2wd, reg/extended/double cab, bed lengths, and engine choices. That makes it not a Truck???
- No 2wd, 4hi, 4lo transfer case. So?? Has AWD, VSA, VTM-4
- No center locking differential.^
- No front locking differential.^^
- No V8 So? Only Dodge offers a 8 in its midsized truck. Does that mean the others are not trucks either?
- Towing capacity 4000 lbs LESS than competition Wrong, Its not a full sized truck, its right on par with its competition actually at 5000lbs
- GCWR 4500-lbs LESS than competition Again not a full sized truck
So your right, it doesn't compare to a Ram or F150.
I see I'm going to have to go into retard-explanation mode for people who understand nothing about trucks. Remember, we're talking about trucks... not cars. So you can't apply the same principles.
First, don't say the Ridgeline doesn't compete with the fulll size trucks, because it's far closer to them in size than the little ones.
Unibody - inherently weaker than a body on frame design. Trucks need to be stiff as hell, and most have solid I-beam like members going down the length of them to improve on linear strength. It is necessary to be strong for towing, and not rattle apart when on rough roads for long periods of time. Unibody allows for too much flex, but not enough "give," if you get my meaning. No other truck of any kind in the world offers unibody contruction, because it's a bad design for heavy loading. Honda is not trying to make the ultimate work truck, and they know no person who needs his truck to do truck stuff will actually buy one, so they don't need to address it.
Small Bed - Bravo! you found aftermarket caps. I didn't think they existed, but good job. Have they done anything about having the smallest bed? Because that's the important part.
Independant Rear Suspension - Two reasons: strength and articulation. Solid axles are preferred for towing because the stress is on the leaf springs... which are stonger than the control arms of an independant suspension. Also, you really have to watch your trailer tounge weight, because the more you compress an independant suspension, the more camber change you get at the wheels. Solid axles will always be perpendicular. As for articulation.... well, that's a given. Solid axles have the inherent advantage there.
Configuration - It doens't make it not a truck, but it certainly makes it a less appealing truck. The majority of trucks are sold with a regular or extended cab, because that allows a greater bed size (which the Ridgeline lacks in anyway). Trim levels, configurations, and drive systems allow people to get the kind of truck they need without spending a lot of money. Do you think the construction worker who hauls a ton of crap around in the back of their truck cares if it drives like a car, or do you think he'd rather have the room to do it with? Not everyone needs 4wd. Not everyone needs a backseat. And the competition offers people what they need for under $20k.
Transfer Case and Lockers - I seriously cannot believe someone can possibly make that argument. Have you any idea how important it is for a truck to be able to lock their wheels together MECHANICALLY? I don't even know where to start. All those acronyms that you posted don't lock the wheels together and reduce the gear ratio for hard pulls (no V8 option hurts too). Try pulling a boat out of the water on a slippery ramp or sand, and you'll appreciate in about 5 seconds the importance of it. And the Honda systems don't address the concerns well enough to be superior to the way the competition does.
V8/Tow Rating/GCWR - the Ridgeline's size DOES put it against the full-size trucks, and I think the few comparisions that Honda has held (against the F150 and Silverado) proves it.
All the things the Ridgeline can do are great if you don't need your truck to do real truck-like things. If I were to ever get a truck, it would probably be more inline with the Ridgeline than the F150 because I have no use for a truck, and I would be concerned with car-like amenities. But you can't judge Truck of the Year by those standards. It would be like picking the GTO as Sports Car of the Year because it's the fastest (per dollar) and that's the only real quality people take advantage of in a sports car. You have to look at what the ideal sports car is capable of doing, what it's designed for, and judge the competitors against that. How can you do that with trucks, and pick the Ridgeline over the Ram?
Originally Posted by Q1000
- No truck should have a unibody design. Why not?
- No truck should have an independant rear suspension. Why Not?
- Still the smallest bed in length and width, with no cover available. Do Your Home Work Retrax, A.R.E., Leer and OEM make caps and covers for it
- One configuration, when its competition offers many combos of 4wd/2wd, reg/extended/double cab, bed lengths, and engine choices. That makes it not a Truck???
- No 2wd, 4hi, 4lo transfer case. So?? Has AWD, VSA, VTM-4
- No center locking differential.^
- No front locking differential.^^
- No V8 So? Only Dodge offers a 8 in its midsized truck. Does that mean the others are not trucks either?
- Towing capacity 4000 lbs LESS than competition Wrong, Its not a full sized truck, its right on par with its competition actually at 5000lbs
- GCWR 4500-lbs LESS than competition Again not a full sized truck
So your right, it doesn't compare to a Ram or F150.
I see I'm going to have to go into retard-explanation mode for people who understand nothing about trucks. Remember, we're talking about trucks... not cars. So you can't apply the same principles.
First, don't say the Ridgeline doesn't compete with the fulll size trucks, because it's far closer to them in size than the little ones.
Unibody - inherently weaker than a body on frame design. Trucks need to be stiff as hell, and most have solid I-beam like members going down the length of them to improve on linear strength. It is necessary to be strong for towing, and not rattle apart when on rough roads for long periods of time. Unibody allows for too much flex, but not enough "give," if you get my meaning. No other truck of any kind in the world offers unibody contruction, because it's a bad design for heavy loading. Honda is not trying to make the ultimate work truck, and they know no person who needs his truck to do truck stuff will actually buy one, so they don't need to address it.
Small Bed - Bravo! you found aftermarket caps. I didn't think they existed, but good job. Have they done anything about having the smallest bed? Because that's the important part.
Independant Rear Suspension - Two reasons: strength and articulation. Solid axles are preferred for towing because the stress is on the leaf springs... which are stonger than the control arms of an independant suspension. Also, you really have to watch your trailer tounge weight, because the more you compress an independant suspension, the more camber change you get at the wheels. Solid axles will always be perpendicular. As for articulation.... well, that's a given. Solid axles have the inherent advantage there.
Configuration - It doens't make it not a truck, but it certainly makes it a less appealing truck. The majority of trucks are sold with a regular or extended cab, because that allows a greater bed size (which the Ridgeline lacks in anyway). Trim levels, configurations, and drive systems allow people to get the kind of truck they need without spending a lot of money. Do you think the construction worker who hauls a ton of crap around in the back of their truck cares if it drives like a car, or do you think he'd rather have the room to do it with? Not everyone needs 4wd. Not everyone needs a backseat. And the competition offers people what they need for under $20k.
Transfer Case and Lockers - I seriously cannot believe someone can possibly make that argument. Have you any idea how important it is for a truck to be able to lock their wheels together MECHANICALLY? I don't even know where to start. All those acronyms that you posted don't lock the wheels together and reduce the gear ratio for hard pulls (no V8 option hurts too). Try pulling a boat out of the water on a slippery ramp or sand, and you'll appreciate in about 5 seconds the importance of it. And the Honda systems don't address the concerns well enough to be superior to the way the competition does.
V8/Tow Rating/GCWR - the Ridgeline's size DOES put it against the full-size trucks, and I think the few comparisions that Honda has held (against the F150 and Silverado) proves it.
All the things the Ridgeline can do are great if you don't need your truck to do real truck-like things. If I were to ever get a truck, it would probably be more inline with the Ridgeline than the F150 because I have no use for a truck, and I would be concerned with car-like amenities. But you can't judge Truck of the Year by those standards. It would be like picking the GTO as Sports Car of the Year because it's the fastest (per dollar) and that's the only real quality people take advantage of in a sports car. You have to look at what the ideal sports car is capable of doing, what it's designed for, and judge the competitors against that. How can you do that with trucks, and pick the Ridgeline over the Ram?