Beacause of misuse, foglights may soon be regulated.

mtrotman
01-31-2006, 05:46 AM
Below you will find a summary of the discussions regarding fog lights. The entire article can be found HERE (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html).

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

49 CFR Part 571

[Docket No. 01-8885; Notice 01]
RIN 2127-AH81
Glare from Headlamps and other Front Mounted Lamps
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108;
Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment

2.4 - Glare from Fog Lamps, Driving Lamps, and Auxiliary Low Beam Headlamps

Fog lamps, driving lamps, and auxiliary low beam headlamps are lamps used in addition to the normally required headlamps. These lamps have been identified in state laws for decades as being allowed to be used under certain conditions of visibility. Generally, as defined in SAE standards, fog lamps have a wide even beam, less intense than a low beam, and intended to be mounted low to shine out under blankets of fog hovering near the ground, and in other conditions of reduced visibility such as rain, snow and dust. Properly aimed, fog lamps can be used to reduce the back scatter glare that often results from water droplets, snowflakes and dust particles illuminated by headlamps. The fog lamp with its downward aimed beam can reduce that veiling glare and permit seeing, albeit at much shorter distance, the roadway and important targets. Speeds, of course, have to be reduced under those conditions.

Driving lamps are lamps not intended for general driving, but are intended to supplement the upper beam headlamps. In essence, they are auxiliary upper beam headlamps. As such, they should never be used under conditions that do not permit the use of upper beam headlamps. Their beam intensity and aim are described in SAE standards and often referenced in state motor vehicle law.

The Auxiliary Low Beam Headlamp, is just that, a lamp similar in beam pattern and performance to a lower beam headlamp. It is intended to supplement the lower beam headlamp, more typically for turnpike driving, where the roadway has widely separated opposing lanes.

More and more passenger cars and LTVs are being equipped with auxiliary lamps these days. As an OEM option, the lamps, usually fog lamps, offer different styling cues than the normal model vehicle to help differentiate it in the market. Also, the public may be interested in "better" lighting, because the number of both OEM and aftermarket installations is increasing markedly. Because of fog lamps' limited performance, they by design will not markedly improve seeing under normal conditions.

These auxiliary lamps are now becoming a source of complaint for glare. Often described as another set of headlamps, sometimes mounted lower, the public reports that these lamps seem to be used all the time at night. In fact, research has now documented that the public is right. Sivak et. al. reported that fog lamps were in fact used much more often than was appropriate for the conditions. In fact, most of the auxiliary lamps in the census were on regardless of the weather or visibility conditions, and most vehicles that had them installed had them in use (see Sivak, M.; Flannagan, M. J.; Traube, E. C.; Hashimoto, H.; Kojima, S. 1997, "Fog lamps: Frequency of Installation and Nature of Use," No. UMTRI-96-31, available as Docket NHTSA-1998-8885-1).

This documented misuse of fog lamps in particular helps substantiate the complaints that NHTSA has been receiving. NHTSA has had complaints about fog lamp use for a while, but never so many as recently. As part of another rulemaking (63 FR 68233, December 12, 1998), NHTSA asked whether it should regulate fog lamps in general, because it was petitioned to regulate the geometric visibility of fog lamps as installed on motor vehicles. The response by commenters to this question was unanimous: yes, please regulate them. NHTSA's authority to regulate their safety will have the consequence of having a common national standard for them. Some of the commenters suggested waiting until the SAE and other international organizations achieved a harmonized, but updated version of a fog lamp standard. As a result of that request, NHTSA has been waiting several years for this to occur. However, there appears to be significant disagreement within both the SAE's Lighting Committee and the Groupe de Travail Brusselles, 1958 , (GTB) as to what constitutes the current state of industry performance for fog lamps. For the foreseeable future, NHTSA has no expectation that a harmonized fog lamp performance consensus standard will be forthcoming from SAE or GTB. Because of the significant increase in complaints, NHTSA plans to propose action independently of outdated industry standards for fog, auxiliary and driving lamps to regulate these at the federal level.

ridged
01-31-2006, 08:08 AM
Another step closer to living in a country where everything is regulated instead of one where common sense and courtesy prevail. I imagine that our founding fathers would freak out if they could see what the federal gov't. has become. :(

BannedUser
01-31-2006, 08:59 AM
Another step closer to living in a country where everything is regulated instead of one where common sense and courtesy prevail. I imagine that our founding fathers would freak out if they could see what the federal gov't. has become. :(
I told Todd just last night.
You will get people to be responsible behind the wheel when I get my world peace. :(

bigtars@hotmail.com
01-31-2006, 12:36 PM
EXCELLANT!!!!!!!! mtrotman FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!

PAP
01-31-2006, 01:58 PM
When foglights are outlawed only outlaws will have foglights...

Having said that, we would have a lot less problems with glare if auto manufacturers were required to place a decent lens system for aming the lights. There is such a night and day difference between a nice lighting system and a crappy one.

The RL I would say is only middle of the road. I'm not really impressed with it but it's not terrible.

It's stupid however not to be able to run JUST the foglights. At least with my system they won't turn on in parking lights so if you truly do run into bad fog and need them you still get all the back glare from the normal lamps.

scottIN
01-31-2006, 04:44 PM
3-Series drivers everywhere must be weeping...

...how can they look cool without turning on their fogs during the day?:D

MoeD
02-01-2006, 11:25 AM
Had to put in my .02 in on this one. I have light sensitive eyes and have had no problems with the OEM fog lights on vehicles. Unless they are out of alignment. One of my pet peeves is those damn rear fog lights, those things I believe are more irritating than anything else. Not to mention blinding at night to me.:mad:
I wonder if people even know they have them on.

tlaudio
02-01-2006, 12:09 PM
IMHO - Headlights are the biggest issue! There are way too many out there that are grossly mis-aligned.

I agree w/ MoeD - Fog lights are not an issue to me. If properly aimed, they provide excellent extreme right & left lighting - a lot more than forward.....

TL

mayfielh
02-01-2006, 12:15 PM
I agree and disagree with regulating the use of the fogs.

I personally have driven several hundred thousand miles in my 17 years driving and I have never had any issues with properly pointed headlights or fog lights. Glare is glare, I would be surprised if the problems people are experience are from the fogs and not the headlights.

I usually drive with my fogs on because I like the extra illumination it gives me up close to my bumper. In my opinion they complete the beam from bumper to X # of feet.

Now I agree 100% that improperly pointed lights should be regulated and made a stoppable offense (it may already be). But for the bulk of us that are installed and running within factory specs this just seems like a grey area that we should not have to worry about. Can I use them in the rain or only when its foggy? What if its foggy and raining? I came from a foggy section and now its not am I expected to reach down and immediatley turn off my fogs? Can I get fog sensing lights that turn on and off as needed? Maybe we should just outlaw them altogether to make sure there's no room interpretation.

cdepuydt
02-01-2006, 12:16 PM
Driving in the US should be more like it is in Germany....where it is a privilege to drive. It costs anywhere from $1200-$1500 for a drivers license and people take driving VERY seriously. They don't eat, drink, put on their makeup, or anything like that. When German engineers first started designing cars for the US, they couldn't grasp the concept of a cup-holder in a vehicle....because they know how much concentration you need on the Autobaun and that is no place to be drinking a slurpy or a cup of coffee.

Even with the "no speed limit" stretches on the Autobaun, their death rate per 1000 drivers is less than it is in the US.

OK....maybe the $1500 license is a bit excessive....but I wish more people on the road would take driving more seriously and realize they are driving 2-ton death machine...if not driven properly. There should be waaaay more tickets for unattentive driving and the penalty should be license suspension, not $100....or whatever the fine is now.....

ridged
02-01-2006, 12:59 PM
It seems I read somewhere in tribal documents that one of the primary complaints against the settlers was the founding fathers using their foglights during the day.
My point is that our federal government is constantly sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. The Constitution is hardly even used as a point of reference, let alone the foundation, for new legislation and the Supreme Court's interpretation of it. :(

Our government entities should take a very minimalist approach when considering their roles in our day-to-day lives, and they should be as unobtrusive as the ambient lights in our Ridgelines - providing a useful service when needed but not noticeable otherwise.

Marcus
02-01-2006, 01:38 PM
Seems like it should be a state regulated issue and not a Federal one.
I remember back in the 60's & 70's when you took your vehicle in for the state inspection here in Texas, part of the process was checking the alignment of the headlights - low & high beams. For some reason, probably cost of the equipment, that inspection check was dropped. It is needed now more than ever.
As for the fog lamps, I'm one that keeps tham on all the time because I feel safer. I can see better and I feel I can be seen better.

BillB
02-01-2006, 03:31 PM
TSB0000001 - Excessive Indian whooping noise during attack and heard mainly from front opening of covered wagon A pillar. Fix A - suggest wearing many feathered optional headdress and hiding woman in back wagon trunk.