I've been a Honda nut for 10 years. My first car was a honda and i've owned about 5 other hondas thus far.

During my span of car ownership, I always neglected to follow the "rules" of proper break-in. I would just drive it off the lot like I've had it for years. Obivously I wouldn't beat the hell out of it initially, but I drove the car without a care in my mind about babying the car the first 600-100 miles.

My first accord was the 96 Accord EX. Great car. My car was uncommonly fast. It had great acceleration and pickup for a 4-banger. A lot of my friends with the same car always noted how my car always felt faster and sportier. I do admit, after driving their car, mine did feel like it had more punch. I never broke in this car, I drove it like I drive normally. The occasional pedal to the metal to merge into traffic/freeways etc.

Fast forward to my 6th Honda... the Honda Ridgeline. I bought the car with 9 miles on it. Brand spankin new off the the truck. I MADE sure that the car was not driven by some highschool Honda techs on the initial check and I made it clear that on my test drive, I would drive the demo model and not the car I ended up purchasing. (I am anal like that).

The demo model was a base RL with no options. Did not matter to me because all I wanted to test was the driveability and overall power of the car. To be honest, the car was sluggish with very little pickup. I was disappointed. I started having second thought about purchasing the car. I weighed the pros and cons of this car, and ultimately purchased the new RTL model that literally came off the truck an hour prior.

I am so glad that I did. Once purchased, I pondered the thought of breaking the car in according to what the manual says. 600 miles, no hard acceleration , etc. I decided what the heck. Its a new car, the most expensive car I have bought to date, and I really want to take care of this car. So I did. The first 20-25 miles I babied it. I barely applied any pressure to the gas pedal and I drove happily along.

Heres the kicker: I've got about 600 miles on the odometer as of today. I can say in all honestly, the pickup and acceleration is AMAZING. It feels more and more faster each day I drive it. I have no real frame of reference, but I have to say my RL is faster and has more pickup than it should. I always think back to that day where I test drove the base RL and amazed about the night and day difference. It was like 2 different trucks.

Some members note that the car is sluggish after going around corners. I cannot relate at all. I have to really watch my pedal pressure around a corner or I get a lot of understeer. It has no sluggish characteristics whatsoever.

Some members note that the car downshifts a lot, trying to find the right gear on acceleration. I very rarely experience that. The power seems to be there when I need it, and accelerates when I need it as well.

My question is:

Is there a correlation between break-in procedure and overall power? Some experts might say that properly seating the piston rings on the inital break in crucial for a tight seal and to gain every horsepower. Maybe unknowingly I did so. Who knows? I dont mind :D

Any input from other members on break in vs. power?

Sorry for the long thread.

It has been my experience with Honda/Acura that with routine(read partial lead-foot) driving, these cars seem to come to life somewhere around 3500-6000 miles. I have yet to not experience this phonomenon. I have driven a lot of different vehicles due to 30 years as a service manager and have not experienced this with other marques. The Ridge is no exception. Curious.

While it should be perfectly fine to drive your new vehicles as normal, it would indeed be highly recommended that this exclude towing. Extremely hard full power starts would also NOT be something I would do to a new vehicle. I think some people believe that if you drive a new car 'like you stole it' (I detest that analogy), that the car will 'somehow' know that this is at the level it must perform at.....so then magically it will be faster and operate better than a 'babied' car. In my opinion this is foolish thinking and baseless. Proper break-in (per manual or similar), and easy throttle use afterward will provide you with far more trouble free miles, on average, than a person that drives their car like a speed demon. It's a simple fact that hard driving puts more force on engine parts and thus creates more heat/friction. Heat/Friction always equals wear.....and wear, over time, equals the length of time an engine has before problems occur. This isn't some new radical thought, it's just a fact of mechanics.

May not happen with Hondas because they probably go factory>train>truck>lot, but here's what I've seen. When I lived in Charleston, all the BMWs for the east coast came in there at the port. There was a huge lot where we use to watch them unload. The guys driving them off the RORO hauled ass. Pedal to the floor, car sideways through the lot, slide it into a parking spot, jump out and go get the next one. I'd guess if they were parking at the far end of the lot, they were hitting 60-70 mph. You could just hear the engines scream. And those guys could drive!
So, even though I'm sure you weren't supposed to floor a BMW with 2 or 3 miles on it, it happens. Doubt it truly hurt them.
That doesn't actually answer your question, I just like to tell the story. :)

If I was their boss and I saw them treating property that way, I'd fire them on the spot. They sound like young punk kids (or very immature adults).
Typical of our culture these days though....too bad.:o

I don't believe that the way you break-in an engine or transmission has very much to do with the overall power. Even after saying that I will say that I'm a firm believer in proper engine, transmission, and brake break-in.

The amount of power the engine produces is more a matter of physics than break-in, but improper break-in could conceivably cause lower cylinder pressures. The cylinder pressure drop would need to be significant for you to feel in the seat of your pants. Even an old worn out engine with bad rings and valves puts out high percentages of its original torque until the engine is on its last leg.

Improper break-in can cause excessive oil use, diminished engine and transmission life, bad brakes, etc. I don't think low power would be in that list unless there were a severe problem.

-Joe

I would hazard to guess that if there is any correlation between break-in and power, it is temporary. Disregarding the break-in procedure may cause the mating parts to wear in faster and therefore develop final HP at a faster pace, but doing that may also result in higher oil comsumption and decreased engine life. Manufacturers have recommended break-in intervals for the simple reason that it is best way to ensure proper seating of all the parts. However, a few full throttle applications required by driving conditions during this period will probably do no harm in the long run.

Just drive it like you stole (own it) it after 1000K miles.

Its a fact driving your car hard does no harm as long as these rules are followed:

Never Idle for long periods
never exceed 2500 rpms when the engine is cold
No jack rabbit starts ever. (slam throttle open at a light)
Drive real easy for 20 miles or 20 minutes or more, then you may tap into the upper rpm range.
Best thing for long oil life, long drives over 30 miutes, city is a oil killer.
Better to change early then late. need to know for sure?? SEND TO LAB !

last one, maintenance is the main key here.

Info is from a test driver/mechanic for Chry on the 300 program.

Its a fact driving your car hard does no harm as long as these rules are followed

Not so my friend....driving a car PERIOD makes your car wear out. So does NOT driving it. Time is the enemy and hard driving is it's partner.....even if the suggestions you've pointed out (good ones) are followed. How you've determined that hard driving 'does no harm' is beyond my comprehension. No, no immediate results will be evident if you're speed racer, but in time it WILL be highly evident. Hard driving produces forces inside the engine that will cause it to wear out sooner than one driven conservatively (given the same care of said vehicles). You do believe this don't you? I mean you must know that engines wear out depending on many variables and that hard driving is very near the top of the list, right? Take two identical cars, break them in the same way, change the oil using the same OCI's, drive one as I would....easy on throttle, no racing or high speed maximum excellerations....and then drive the other one hard, racing the engine onto on-ramps at full throttle, heavy towing, fast starts from stoplights, passing frequently at high speed.....and I'll promise you that the babied engine will last far longer and give much more trouble free years of service than the hard driven one.
:cool: It's just common sense!

I stand by my statements, I drive them hard. All my rides are used, so what is the point of babying it ?? God know how the last clown drove it ??
This data is from a man with a long family mechanic life that can fix anything that can break.

The test:

1978 Chev Blazer K5 4X4 (bought new)

Lasted 500K miles, engine refresh every 100K

This truck ran the freeway 60-70, pulled everything in site, wash driven harder then I have ever seen somebody drive.

Why did it last ??

Maintained by a mechanic.

True story.
The driver was my dad.

So you baby your rides, if your are afraid. Its OK !!
I would be afraid if i knew NOTHING about mechanics and had to rely on the dealer to save your ride.

There are parts that react to heat much differently when new than when a few thousand miles old. Take the engine block for example... the block will have hot spots when new that will not exist after the engine is broken-in. Piston rings are another example... much higher friction on a new engine causes heat that is not normal after break-in.

To push a brand new engine hard is foolish. It may or may not cause long term damage, but the fact is that certain components are not in a condition that could be considered normal.

How long does it take to break-in an engine or transmission? For the items I've found important I would say 500 miles is reasonable. Some items as little as 20 average miles, but why push it?

Your brakes are another issue. A single hard braking incident on brand new brakes can glaze the pads. The compound gets as hard as a rock and just won't work properly.

It doesn't take long to properly break-in all components. Stomping on either pedal is not the way to do it. That doesn't mean you have to "baby it", but reasonable driving will pay off in spades.

-Joe

Great points CSIMO !

Sometimes you have to read behind the lines. I am not saying hurt the engine.

Warmed up and ruining the engine to 5700 rpm's is NOT going to hurt it one bit.
Engines are built to run and some cars REQUIRE you to spin the hell out of it or its a dog. (S2000)

In the shop I see WAY to many cars babied to death in the form of SLUDGE !

I do admit this is the lowest mile ride I have owned, truck came with 45 HARD test miles on her :mad:

Will have 5K miles on her before she start pulling loads tho.

I do agree with not "driving it like you stole it" for the first 100 or so miles.

I always wonder how the car was driven those first 7-10 miles as it is considered new. Who knows.. they could be beating on them like crazy

:D :p Nice try Pro...correlating a well cared for and easy driven vehicle to ones 'fear' of something. Lol...I'm not fearful of my Ridge, I just enjoy it and want it to last as long as possible. You kind of make my point for me with this statement:This data is from a man with a long family mechanic life that can fix anything that can break.

Besides Pro, it's not like I drive like a granny, I just don't push everything to the limit. Getting from point 'a' to 'b' in record time, isn't worth the wear and tear or possible ticket. The older I get the more I've come to realize this. Maybe it comes with some sort of maturity...?
In the shop I see WAY to many cars babied to death in the form of SLUDGE !
This isn't what generally causes sludge build up. I've never had sludge in any of my vehicles....EVER. And from your viewpoint I must be one of those that cause it. You keep conveying this idea that driving a vehicle HARD is better than driving it in a regular fashion. If you think I'm causing sludge from not punching the gas pedal all the time, or not bringing the rev's up towards redline.....you've got an odd idea of vehicle care. And since when on God's green earth have auto mechanics been experts at vehicle longevity? I would have to say that 99% of the mechanics I've known (certified and well trained), most have driven either junky cars or rod-out a new car and have it ruined in a couple short years. This is not meant to discredit you or other mechanics, I'm just not agreeing with the tone of your argument. After all, why do most folks know that buying a used rental car isn't the best idea??:rolleyes:

Ummm, just one VERY IMPORTANT thing, byoo79, the Ridgeline is a TRUCK!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT A CAR! O.k., I feel better now;)

I am not a mechanic, however I heard one time (might be wrong here) that the newer cars/trucks on board chips have a driver memory? it learns the way its driven and adjusts accordingly to maintain proper firing, timing etc..
This may be why the one on the lot drove different? it was babied, therefore drove slower than normal....
Once again...not fact, just heard it, or read it somewhere???
Anyone else hear this?

I am not a mechanic, however I heard one time (might be wrong here) that the newer cars/trucks on board chips have a driver memory? it learns the way its driven and adjusts accordingly to maintain proper firing, timing etc..
This may be why the one on the lot drove different? it was babied, therefore drove slower than normal....
Once again...not fact, just heard it, or read it somewhere???
Anyone else hear this?

Many transmissions on the market today are adaptive... they use fuzzy logic to determine how the driver likes the shift points.

I know of nothing in the engine that would be adaptive in the sense of driver patterns. Intake air is regulated by barometric pressure to account for altitude, and timing is adaptive to prevent detonation, etc.

So I think a Ridgeline that is "babied" will perform the same as one that is driven "like you stole it".

-Joe

I agree with ProHonda. My brother, a certified Honda Technician/Service Manager/General Manager says break-in period is important as is sensibility, but babying a Honda will do you no good, in fact it's worse. My brother has told me countless stories of customers bringing their Honda in for service because of low power, hesitation, hard-starts, irregular idling...and the list goes on. On average the vehicles were less than 2 years old and under 40,000km (24,000 miles) Way too early to consider tune-ups. When my brother would ask them how they drove their Honda's, all of them drove them carefully at all times (as if he was accusing them of abusing the vehicle). He'd then proceed to tell them that if they wanted to save their money and time, drive the car for another week, but drive it like you hate it (tough love). As long as the car was warmed up, hit the gas pedal and let it run through the gears until you hit a safe speed, and do this each time you get onto a highway. Basically, drive it like you hate it for a week. If you still have the problem, bring it back and we'll look at it. Most of the time they would come back to see him, just to say thanks. Moral of the story, these Honda engines thrive on high RPM's. The CPU gets to use maximum settings to deliver your demands. Give it plenty of ranges, blow out the carbons, push the fuel through the injectors and the coolant through engine, etc. You get the picture.

I've got 30,000km on my RL, and I drive it the way I want to....sensibly, but I have fun along the way. I like pushing it occassionally, and to tell you the truth, I think the truck loves it! It just keeps getting better and better. The fastest I've had it up to was 180km/hour (110mph) and it wanted more...I was too chicken to push it any further, but I was impressed, very impressed. It's a Honda, not a Hyundai. Drive it, enjoy it, but give it a treat and boot it once in awhile. You'll both benefit from it.

Again...who cares? Are you going to keep this car until it has 100,000 miles or so? That is probably the time it will start burning "some" oil since you didn't give it the proper break in period.
By the time my Ridgeline gets to 100,000 miles (with another owner, not me), I would have owned another three Hondas!
Drive it like you stole it!

I would be afraid if i knew NOTHING about mechanics and had to rely on the dealer to save your ride.
Be afraid...be very afraid.:eek:

Wow....you guys must be right then. By driving my Ridge like I've driven all my other long lasting high-mileage vehicles....I'm actually hurting it!!:eek: Boy, I think I'll head out to the garage right now (maybe I should stop babying the truck and park it ouside too), crank her up and after some warm up time see how many zero to sixty times I can get in tonight! Yeah, then I will do some burnouts in a parking lot to really make my engine 'happy'....you know it does REALLY tell me it likes it! Maybe I can load up some firewood in the back and go find a super steep hill and see how fast she'll go!!! All this 'hate' will surely turn my Ridge into one fast truck!
Thanks for all the advice fellas.....oh, and remind me to NEVER by a used car from one of you.....it will be way too fast and reliable!:p

My brother has told me countless stories of customers bringing their Honda in for service because of low power, hesitation, hard-starts, irregular idling...and the list goes on.


So then how come in another post you admit that your Ridge has the slight hesitation? Did you 'baby' her too much??:D

Read this thread and I must reply!!

I've owned American Junkers for the most of my early life. I have never had one go reliably over 200,000 miles. Around 150,000 they always starting dying and falling apart, hard on the pedal maybe!! They burned oil, rattled on every bump, by the 1980's they became almost impossible to work on as a home mechanic. I was always driving a car from the previous decade, the better ones were the 72' 318 Plymouth Satelite, the 350 rockets in Cutlass and Regal and 282??v6 nova. By 1991 it was time to get a more reliable car.

Enter the 1st 1987 Honda Accord automatic with 30,000. Entering the freeway it was always pedal to the metal and let the car shift when its ready. When I needed the power the 4 cyl gave it to me, passing was never a problem. I did use SFR supplement with oil changes, did this help I don't know. NEVER had an on the road break down with the car, just kept with the maintenence schedule, oil changes, replace timing belts, tires etc. I just sold the car last year with 287,000 miles!! Never burned a drop of oil, level was always the same between oil changes. The only problem was the drivers door was ready to fall off due to the rusted column!! That is the car that sold me on HONDA'S and have been driving them ever since!!

Quite a few here say they never take there Ridge above 3000 RPM'S. I ask How do they do it?? Most acceleration from a start takes me into the 4000 RPM range and a few merging with traffic in the 5000 range. The Ridge never seems sluggish to me. I know others have posted on this sluggish issue, and the curiosity was How?? Where is it?? So I tested it. Starting off and letting off on the gas, gassing and letting up, hesitant on the gas pedal was the only way I could duplicate it. I always drive the Ridge with a steady gas pedal and never had any hesitation issues or sluggish issues. But then again I never get 22mph!!

:)

I would be stunned to have it proven that a breakin proceedure diffences resulted substaintially more power than the engine spec. I would not be surprised if a poor breakin proceedure resulted in an engine with either decreased power or durability.

Some members note that the car is sluggish after going around corners. I cannot relate at all. I have to really watch my pedal pressure around a corner or I get a lot of understeer. It has no sluggish characteristics whatsoever.

Some members note that the car downshifts a lot, trying to find the right gear on acceleration. I very rarely experience that. The power seems to be there when I need it, and accelerates when I need it as well. I have found that if I baby it there does seem to be some delay getting to the higher RPMs. As another responder suggested, the Honda V-Tec engines thrive on higher RPMs. I'm sure the dynomometer torque curves would show this. So if you are a bit rougher than some on the pedel as you describe, you are probably in the higher torque/RPM regions more often and don't experience the hesitation or shifting. When towing my boat, I notice the transmission "searches" for the right gear if I'm trying to do 60-65, but is smooth as silk at 72 MPH and a higher RPM.

I suspect the increased power you are sensing has more to do with your driving style than the method of break-in.

Steve,
Very good post and I believe right on the money! I tested this today as a matter of fact. I drove my Ridge like a granny this morning....very very slowly. A few times when I started from a stop it had a very slight hesitation....but ONLY when I really started VERY slowly, with barely any gas pedal. Next stop I just started normally or perhaps a tad fast and heavy on the redal......never any hesitation. I can only conclude that the Ridge will behave differently with each drivers style but can be either quick on the draw or slow and lumbering....depending on driving style, not break-in procedure.

what do y'all think of this?
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

this seems to be "the" way of choice to break-in four stroke bike engines.

what do y'all think of this?
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

this seems to be "the" way of choice to break-in four stroke bike engines.

What do I think?

#1 Anybody can put up a web site and say anything they want. Doesn't make it true.

#2 I think this is just another kid that thinks he knows more than the people that designed the engine. Ignorance for the most part.

#3 If I read another "I've been doing this for years without any problems" I'm going to puke.

-Joe

But it must be true, it's on the internet.;)

what do y'all think of this?
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

this seems to be "the" way of choice to break-in four stroke bike engines.


I think that it is nonsense

I don't think the site is total garbage...I think he's made some very good points about ring seating as an example. I just feel that he's overboard on the idea that being hard on a new engine is the "end-all" for proper break-in. Maybe he's talking more about super-high rev motorcycle engines?

So then how come in another post you admit that your Ridge has the slight hesitation? Did you 'baby' her too much??:D

Notice the wording used was "had" a slight hesitation when it was new, before the break-in period. After that, no problem. One thing I noticed, however, 'he' (my RL has balls), doesn't take to well to being patronized. My 1988 Accord, before I traded it in, had 420,000km (you do the calculation to miles) on it and I drove it like I hated it and it still was performing excellently when I traded it in. Just because you drive it they way you want, doesn't allow you to neglect it either. The key is proper service and maintenance.

Actually sir, the word "had" doesn't occur in the post you speak of. I do however, from closer examination and a bit of deciphering, understand that you were trying to say that you no longer suffer the hesitation. Thank you for your kind response though. (Although I will defer the kilometers to miles calculation for those still stuck in the 1970's metric debacle).
I will have to partially disagree that the key to an engines longevity is proper service and maintenance. Although very important, you've neglected proper driving habits as being equally vital.

Incidentally, there's an editorial about that website in the latest
MT (or is it Road & Track?) magazine.
(I originally discovered the link from a motorcycle website).

There is a lot more than the engine that needs "run-in" time on this truck. The 4 wheel drive system and running gear has ball and roller bearings, solenoids, and electric clutches, all which perform better after a period of use. :p