Honda Accord, Ridgeline to receive diesel power [1.5.7]

[FL_Ridge]

Originally Posted by jhedges

I agree. To me there are more negatives about diesel then positive.

Loud
they smell
more $$
somewhat limited where you can purchase diesel fuel
very cold natured

I'm curious what the benefits of a diesel in a Ridge would be also.

What's your basis? Domestic Diesel engines? You're probably right.

However, I grew up with at least one Diesel vehicle in my family since I was a kid.

Loud? More so than a gasoline engine. But not obnoxious.

Smelly? Not really.

More money? Yes. Repaid in longevity. My parents have a 27 year old Diesel that they bought brand new. Still looks new. How many 27 year old cars can you say that about? Repaid in economy. At 27 years old the car still gets 31 mpg on the highway.

Hard to find Diesel? Not really, much of America's economy runs on Diesel. Sometimes you have to go an extra block, but most stations have at least one Diesel pump.

Cold natured? Well, Diesels prefer a bit of warmth. The fuel thickens at lower temperatures, however these issues aren't as common with modern Diesels.

[FL_Ridge]

Originally Posted by Raplon

It all depends on the cost. In Europe gasoline costs 4X of disel fuel. In Israel disel cars are heavily taxed, so, nobody has them. In USA disel is more expensive than even Super (93). Untill it costs the same as regular grade gasoline, there is no economical advantage. There is no way you would get 800 miles per tank. 1-2 miles extra per galon, maybe. My friend's Disel Suburban still gets 15-16 miles per galon and not 30. Also, disel engine is more expensive to maintain and we really lack mechanics who know how to fix them. I mean really know how to fix disels. To me it is a huge disadvantage. There are people that just like disels in general. I once new a guy who would only have disel. He had a collection of 4 disel cars that looked like junk. Everyone thought he was crazy.

There is an economic advantage. Diesel here isn't much more than gasoline right now. A Jetta with a Diesel can get close to 50 mpg.

How is that not an advantage over a gasoline vehicle?

[gonzo's rt]

Diesel engines can be built to be quiet and without the diesel smell like we are used to here. I saw several Honda, Mercedes and yes, even Ford diesel cars in Europe last summer, could not believe how quiet they were.
We are used to hearing big Dodge and Ford diesels that are so loud you can hear them coming a mille away...believe me, there are other options out there. In addition to lasting longer, they are more economical.

[BEACHDRIVER]

I agree with the issues mentioned on total cost to run a diesel. In the Ridgeline, we have the fortune to have a vehicle that runs regular gas. In our area diesel is at best 25% more than regular gas. Therefore, at a 25% inrease in MPG, we would be at breakeven. I also understand that diesels require a larger quantity of oil at oil change and that the changes should be at shorter intervals than gasoline engines again adding to the total cost to run. I have been awaiting a diesel engine in the US for the Accord for years. However, I am not sure it will make economic sense unless something changes.

[csimo]

It's unfortunate that many people have the perception that modern automotive diesel engines are loud, noisy, vibrate, high maintenance, sluggish and expensive. The truth is just the opposite.

Outside of North America the rest of the world has discovered the benefits of diesel power. In Europe most vehicle buyers prefer diesel to petrol engines.

I've driven many cars that have comparible gasoline and diesel options. In nearly every case I prefer the driving experience of the car with a diesel. The flat torque curve of a diesel engine is really much better suited to normal driving styles than the peak torque style of a gasoline engine.

Diesel powered vehicles normally get 20 - 30% better fuel mileage than their gasoline counterparts. Diesel fuel has traditionally cost less than gasoline, but the oil companies have changed this in recent years in their attempt to prevent diesel engine development.

In my area diesel fuel costs about 10% more than gasoline. This would result in a 10 - 20% bottom line increase in efficiency. Taxes are a big part of the cost difference. The US average tax per gallon is 45.5 cents per gallon for gasoline, but diesel is taxed at an average of 52.5 cents per gallon. This gives gasoline an unfair pricing advantage.

Diesel engines require much less maintenance than gasoline engines (maintenance costs per mile driven). Trucks, locomotives, and ships wouldn't be using diesel engines if this wasn't true. They can make gasoline engines just as big if it made sense to do so.

Diesel engines are less complex. No ignition system to worry about.

Vehicles with diesel engines do cost more up front. It costs more to build a diesel engine. This is often more than offset by the higher resale price of the vehicle. Vehicles with diesel engines hold their value much better than their gasoline counterparts.

Diesel engines last longer. Even small diesel engines usually have a 300,000 mile design life. Some of the little VW TDI engines go for a million miles or more.

I've owned several diesel powered vehicles. When I got my first VW TDI I was worried that it wouldn't start when the weather got cold. We had a good cold blast that winter and I intentionally left the vehicle outside for two days and tried to get it started at -11F. It started right up. I've never had a diesel fail to start.

I've driven to the top of Pike's Peak about a dozen times. Three times in diesel powered vehicles. Anyone who's driven a gasoline engine up that, or similar mountains knows the problems they have with altitude. The little 90 horsepower VW TDI was like a race car going up the mountain! I could have passed nearly everyone on the road if I wanted to. Now heading down the mountain is a completely different story and brings out one of the down sides of diesel... no engine braking unless you have a jake brake or similar device. A diesel engine will run away on you since they have no throttle plate to pull a vacuum against.

I've driven diesel's all over Europe. Once in Germany I drove about 200 miles as fast as it would go (112MPH) and after my calculations I still got 30MPG. I've driven thru many of the countries formerly part of the Soviet Union. No speed limits, and really no cops to even care one way or the other (except one in the Czech Republic but that's a different story).

I'm elated that there will be several new diesel engine options in the USA for the 2008 model year. The Ridgeline is due to follow in 2009.5. I'll try and wait.

[jhedges]

Right now Diesel $2.45 and Regular $2.00 in Indiana. That's more the 10%

[csimo]

As of today the average US price for regular unleaded is $2.257 per gallon, and diesel is $2.621... that's 13.88% after tax.
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If you remove the $0.07 US gasoline tax advantage you end up at an 11.52% difference in price.

In my area 10% is a good number.

Keep in mind that diesel fuel prices have been artificially inflated for several years. Diesel fuel costs less to produce, it's safer to transport, and has a much longer shelf life when compared to gasoline.

Either way the cost difference more than offset with the increased efficiency of diesel fuel.

Most of the negative thoughts about diesel in the US are due to the terrible diesel engines GM produced in the 1980's. There are a few events in history that stifled product development. The 80's GM diesels did that for North American diesel engine development (much as Chernobyl and Three Mile Island did for nuclear energy in the USA). It's unfortunate that progress was blocked by such events, but we can't change history. I'm just happy that much of the rest of the world was more progressive.

[geotech]

Originally Posted by csimo

Most of the negative thoughts about diesel in the US are due to the terrible diesel engines GM produced in the 1980's. There are a few events in history that stifled product development. The 80's GM diesels did that for North American diesel engine development (much as Chernobyl and Three Mile Island did for nuclear energy in the USA). It's unfortunate that progress was blocked by such events, but we can't change history. I'm just happy that much of the rest of the world was more progressive.

An excellent point. Not only that, but at first GM merely coupled them with the original automatic trannys. The higher torque diesels really ate them up. This also lead to a negative perception about diesels. Today, out here in farm country, diesels are a way of life.

[jhedges]

I'm basing "some" of my diesel impressions from the current diesel Dodge Ram Trucks that after sitting at a stop light and they take off I can barely hear my self think from my teeth rattling out of my head. LOL

I can't wait to get a diesel powered Ridge, and I mash the gas down to the floor, and I barely move. Yehaw!

[csimo]

Originally Posted by geotech

An excellent point. Not only that, but at first GM merely coupled them with the original automatic trannys. The higher torque diesels really ate them up. This also lead to a negative perception about diesels. Today, out here in farm country, diesels are a way of life.

Unfortunately I know more about the GM diesel engine "issues" than I care to admit. The entire project was thrown together piecemeal.

There were obvious problems from the start. In GM's defense they did improve things quite a bit before abandoning the project, and owners were taken care of.

Dark days in the auto industry.