EBC Brakes: FIRST set of brake pads in the USA

[shovelhd]

A complete rotor and pad replacement with stock parts looks like it's about $500, so $600 for these is on my radar screen. The only issue would be the availability of those yellow pads. What do I gain or lose by using the green pads?

[G2Turbo]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

A complete rotor and pad replacement with stock parts looks like it's about $500, so $600 for these is on my radar screen. The only issue would be the availability of those yellow pads. What do I gain or lose by using the green pads?

For the money it's very respectable relative to the performance and durability gains.

I did post detailed info about the GreenStuff pads earlier that included my personal experience from another vehicle.

[shovelhd]

Found it. So it looks like the Yellow Stuff are full race pads and the Green Stuff are for your daily driver. They even make a version for 4x4 trucks. Good. Thanks for the info.

[G2Turbo]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

Found it. So it looks like the Yellow Stuff are full race pads and the Green Stuff are for your daily driver. They even make a version for 4x4 trucks. Good. Thanks for the info.

That's what I thought at first too. Yellow pads, for a light vehicle are okay for race and street use. EBC has other pads that are more aggressive than Yellow Stuff, and would not be a good choice for street use, even for a heavy truck. Green pads would probably be fine, too.

According to EBC' President the Yellowpads are the best choice for our trucks.
Bbased on my driving so far, I agree.

[shovelhd]

OK, so how do we get them?

[G2Turbo]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

OK, so how do we get them?

At this point in time, and as previously mentioned, probably thru myself. No retailer has them- it will likely be awhile before EBC supplies the market.

If anyone wants these pads I can pass the request on directly to EBC. After that it will be logistics, such as who to "buy" them from. Firstly having a decent size order to provide EBC will likely help them to make a batch of pads.

I am also starting up a discussion with EBC to possibly become a reseller. This would allow me to directly help people on this forum.

Whichever way it goes I'm willing to help.

[Cochise111]

Originally Posted by G2Turbo

Of course I'm aware of what's on-line, as most people are-- just about everything. There's that side of the coin, then there is the practical reality.

That link is geared more towards racing and high performance. As mentioned only the most exotic cars use two piece rotors. Their criteria is narrow focused, and does not relate well to normal daily driven street cars using different pad compounds and rotors types. If anyone wants to take that as gospel for a normal street car then so be it. There will always be a difference between theoretical and practical effects- how something is used makes all the difference. Do not take this wrong: I respect Stop Tech and would in a moment mount them to any vehicle I own.

Next:

I've serviced many a fixed Honda rotor, and with your experience, ought to know they are NOT "irremovable". The shop owner I worked for years also thought the rotors did not come off until I showed him, how to (easily) remove the hub and remove the 4 bolts to free the rotor to be machined. I noticed you mentioned machining the rotors......

An interesting point you mention related to "bearing run-out". I don't recall ever seeing a TSB that stated this phenomenon, no matter the marque/brand. I'm not stating that it hasnt' been done. And previously mentioned that it couldn't have some influence, if a bearing was loose enough.

What gets me that an OEM would make this statement about "run out", to redirect the blame to another component. To me it sounds like a ploy, as you propose, to more or less state: "yes, we are aware of brake pedal pulsation complaints/problems, but it is not because of warped rotors".

Funny this. Well, yes, both Lexus and Toyota are wrong. Same company so there's really no difference. Throw Honda in there too. Feel free to show us any TSB or Recall or Campaign information to prove differently.

The reason I can say this is because of personal experience. Good 'ol real world stuff: My 2003 Toyota Tundra SR5 4x4 v8 TRD Access Cab had the warped rotor syndrome. It was under warranty, what did they do? They removed the rotors and machined them. Keep in mind the warranty is 3/36. Do you REALLY think, if loose bearings were the culprit, they wouldn't say anything? Do you also really think bearings on a low mileage new truck with barely 20K would become so loose so soon? Would they replace the bearings and tell me only the rotors were resurfaced? Would my service paperwork NOT have the actual work performed? Hmmm.

Next Case: Our 2006 Ridgeline. At 21K miles the brake pedal pulsates when stopping. Rotors are machined at Honda Dealership, as visibly apparent by looking at them, problem is gone. They slide right off, unlike the old design. Did Honda also replace my wheel bearings w/o notification? Doubtful, they wouldn't get the warranty labor credits. I also know the Service Manager a bit, and even interviewed with him once. His character is infallible and I would send any of my customers to know to him if needed.

Even more on the Ridge-- At 22.5K miles the rotors are warping again-- under normal no towing, easy driving highway miles, too. Ooops, I mean the brake pedal is pulsating again. Luckily the fancy brake parts finally arrived. Off come the old, on go the new. I even checked the hub bearings for looseness. Just like new. See where I'm going with this?

I've only driven on the new front rotors and pads for a day so far. Symptom? Gone. Just like that: changed rotors and pads. Voila.

Okay, so there's a trend. Is it only me? Does your vast experience become so easily swayed by what an OEM may say? Is it possible they are CYA'ing themselves to avoid admitting to a problem? Ever see TSB's on domestics for fuel injector problems? It's actually funny how they word them to say there's a perceived problem, and here's how to "fix" it, but otherwise deny the problem. Not everything in print is the honest truth.

If you want to say that adjusting bearings on your customer's vehicles fixes their brake pedal ossicilations, then great. If it works, wonderful. I'm not saying that whatever you do/have done doesn't work. I wasn't there. There are many variables to contend with. On old vehicles I'd probably agree with you a bit. However I'd say for the majority of brake problems, very, very few have been the cause of ONLY loose bearings. None that I know of, sorry.

Briefly: When a caliper squeezes the brake rotor, it runs true at that point, no matter how loose the bearing is. Seen it, tested it. The ONLY runout is perpendicular to the hub, or axially (up and down, not side to side). This vertical motion does NOT cause caliper piston kick back, like a warped rotor. It's easily verified: measure the thickness at various points with a caliper. Also: machine ONE side of the rotor, THEN the other. There is a drastic difference, easily seen in the pattern of the rotor. Visible evidence, measured evidence, real world verified by a test drive. I always test drive vehicles after repairs, like any good mechanic.

Your experience (for any tech) should allow you to reach conclusions based on actual experience and using powers of deduction, along with available technical information. Using this information, a real cause and effect answer should become obvious.

I don't mean to hammer on you, because this is more for those that are following along, wondering what the heck makes sense.

This is all I have time to say, so thanks for joining in.

Mighty Auto Parts --> Gimme a Brake

Just another opinion on whether heat causes "warped" rotors. As an aside, I've installed many slotted/cross-drilled rotors along with "high performance pads." Almost, without fail, the pedal oscillation/steering wheel shake returned. The only times it didn't return were in the cases where the vehicle was sold and I could no longer verify the "repair". I even attempted the high performance "fix" on my own vehicle only to have the vibration return after a couple of months. Granted, my 4Runner's rotors are very undersized, but when I resurfaced the rotors while installed on the vehicle the vibration was cured and hasn't returned. I was also very easy on my brakes. My brother in law now owns the 4Runner and still drives the vehicle in somewhat of a rough environment, and he has yet to feel rotor vibration.

[Cochise111]

I had to add one more post to this thread. I've never been one to issue opinions lightly. If I weren't now a stay-at-home-dad, I'd refute every one of the comments directed at me by the original poster to this thread. Perhaps he has something to gain in this thread, but, if one does the research, rotors do not warp at all. The pulsation felt, which is attributed to rotor "warp" in many cases, is due to deposits left on the rotor by inferior brake pads. Almost every manufacturer now recognizes that fact. Where is asbestos when we need it?