Honda Ridgeline Stuck on Hill

[hiPSI]

Here is an explanation I wrote several months ago about another guy who had problems going up a hill.
His original post:
Below is a poor image of the driveway up to our mountain cabin. This represents only a porion (maybe 25%) of the driveway. The slope is fairly steep at the top, but certainly as you can see, not radical. Bottom line - the Ridgeline struggled to get to the top. At the top speed was down to 2-3 mph while rpm was as high as 3000 to maybe 3500. Traction was ok, no wheel slippage. I did the drive up with every combination of VSA and differential lock but the performance was always the same. Miserable. I fear that this is an example of limited torque or some computer function gone awry. The truck had a hard time on this hill without a load (2 adults). How bad will it be with a full load of whatever? This level of performance is unacceptable for me and unless there is some mechanical or electronic fault, will force me to trade at a substantial loss. Does anyone have any insight or advice?


My reply:
After reading this thread, I think the below explanation could help you understand how the ridgeline works and how it applies to your driveway. I wrote this several months ago in response to another question but it applies to your situation also. Hope this helps ease your mind on your decision to purchase this truck. In the explanation, slick also means covered with gravels.

The Ridgeline boasts VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) and VTM-4 (Variable Torque Management).
Both work very well under most ordinary circumstances, but the VSA has some "quirks" that take getting used to.
First, a short explanation on VSA and how it works:
VSA (vehicle stability assist) is automatically turned on whenever the truck is started. There is a switch located on the dash in front of your left knee that can be pushed whenever you want to deactivate the VSA. Why would you ever want to deactivate a great safety feature such as VSA? Read on.
The VSA in simple terms works by "measuring" each wheel RPM and applying braking to the wheel that is determined to be slipping at the time. It will also reduce throttle if the VSA determines this is the best way to bring your truck under control.
Example: You are driving down the interstate at 65 mph in the rain and you go through a puddle and you hydroplane. The VSA will "sense" the rotation of the wheels are different and apply braking necessary to get all four wheels back spinning together, allowing you to continue to steer. I am simplifying this a lot, but the VSA works in conjunction with the anti lock brakes and the engine management system to determine all of this in a split second. It works very well in these conditions and will undoubtably save a lot of damage and lives.
The same goes for snowy or muddy roads.
Now, knowing how the VSA somewhat works, imagine going up a steep or really muddy dirt road or a slick snowy hill. You have to creep because it is so steep or slick. What will happen? The same thing that has happened to me several times. The VSA will sense the wheel slip and apply braking force to the spinning wheel and eventually (really just a split second but this is logic working) back off the throttle thinking it has done it's job. Remember though, you are trying to get up a slick or steep hill! What happens when you are going up a slick hill and the brakes are applied and the throttle gets deactivated? You stop or slow down when you want to go! If you know how the truck works, you have turned off the VSA before starting this journey to the top. If you don't know, you stay stuck or creep along. If you remember, you push the VSA button, spin a little and go on to the top. I now turn off VSA when I drive on slick hilly roads. I leave it on when driving on snow covered interstates. The VSA will also come on (even though you turned it off) if one of the TPMS (tire pressure monitor system) determines you have a low tire. This is good, unless you have aired down on purpose to drive in the sand! You must then pull the VSA fuse.
So, it has it's good and bad points. Now that I understand it, I love it. I turn it off when needed and most of the time I just let it do it's thing. For someone who does not understand it's operation, it could be not so good.

The VTM-4 works very well. In normal mode, the all wheel drive works just like it should...transferring torque merrily back and forth. When the VTM-4 button is pushed, you can "pseudo-lock" all four wheels into pulling up to a speed of 18 mph. It can actually transmit up to 70% of the output torque to the rear wheels, which is handy when pulling a boat out of the water on a slime covered boat ramp.[/


His reply before going out and trying to do it correctly:
Thanks, hiPSI. I'm hoping you are right and I am going to find out this weekend but... a couple of things - I tried going up with VSA turned off after initially having difficulty with it on. Both times, though, I was in 2nd gear with VTM-4 engaged. Each time the behavior of the truck was identical! It would gradually slow down from 10-12 mph to 2-3 mph while the engine rpm would continue unchanged (or actually climb), Meanwhile the accelerator pedal was floored and the truck seemed mired in mud. At no time was there any slippage and the engine never chocked down like an underpowered vehicle, unable to do the climb would. It just seemed to be working against itself! And his was with VSA switched OFF. Very puzzling.

His final reply after actually testing it using the correct method:
And the verdict is...
I just got in from the cabin and I have the results from the great hillclimb trial. As it turns out the one thing you DO NOT want to do is try to climb a hill in second gear/VTM4 lock/VSA off. It is apparent last weekend that perhaps I "outsmarted" myself and the truck.
The results:
- the RL in D, no VTM lock, VSA on - climbed the hill, no problem
- first gear, VTM-4 lock (or not), VSA on or off - no problem
- second gear, VTM lock or not, VSA on or off - great difficulty

Also a couple of other observations - when starting on the steepest part of the hill and in "D" or "1" with VTM locked or unlocked, the RL grabbed the hill and pulled on up with little difficulty or slippage. If I let off the accelerator, the truck would begin to roll backwards but application of throttle sent the truck back up the hill with minimal slip in the gravel (but some with VSA on or off). If I had the RL in gear 2 and stopped on the hill and let off the throttle, it would sit there and not roll back at all. If I then gave it the gas, the engine would rev up to 2500 rpm and the truck would barely move up the hill. Locked in 2, the truck is completely robbed of torque.
The results indicate that in almost any situation but locked in second gear, the RL was clearly "up to the task". The next test will be towing up the hill. I have a question for those technically savvy - why did the truck not rollback on the hill when in second but not any other gear?
Bottom line - the Ridgeline gets a reprieve and gets to serve another day. Thanks for all the insight and response. Keep on truckin'.

This truck will climb a wall if you do it right. It just requires you understand how the truck works before deciding it is the truck's fault. The first time I ever operated a road grader (engineering test) I completely and utterly screwed things up and got hopelessly stuck. I knew it could grade a road...I had seen it with an experienced operator but I sure could not do it until somebody explainde it to me the correct way to do it. Good luck.
I just posted excerpts so you would not have to read 6 pages of comments. If you want to read the entire thread I pulled this from search for Crayn in June of this year. Last item...do not try it in 2nd gear!!! use first or Drive! I can guarantee you that if your truck has nothing wrong with it mechanically, it will climb a hill as steep as your courage will let you if you use the correct method of turning the vsa off, VTM-4 on and putting it in 1st gear.

[speed_racer]

Thank you for the reply(s). However, I am not clear whether or not those who have successfully climbed and descended steep hills did so in both reverse and forward. Could you please clarify that for me. And, if was in reverse was it from a standing start? Was anything blocking the wheels at all? When in reverse, even a small bump or rock behind one of the wheels seems to make a difference from a standing start.

There have been sitatuations where I was facing downhill on a dirt road with no place to turn around. Last month I stopped in a section that was not so steep I could get moving in reverse. So I began backing up the road say maybe 1000 ft. long with no problem. Then I got to the steep section. And here I am with the vehicle's acelerator to the floor, twisted around with my ass off the seat so I could see the road better out of the back window all-the-while negotiating this narrow, curvey roads between rocks and trees. At the top, I knew there was a place to turn around where the road kind-of leveled out. Well, imagine my surprise when I arrived at the top and took off at full speed in reverse and headed (tailed?) straight for a large rock formation barely 50 feet away! Fortunatly, I was able to respond quick enough to get my foot to the brake. It's kind-of funny now but at the time the incident did scare me enough to start pressing further for answers.

In fact, I have reguarly stopped on hills and tried to back up them just to see if I could find out anything further. Sometimes I had an observer and sometimes not. But I can reguarly find sections of road that I can not climb in reverse (that is none of the wheels are turning).

The Owner's manual states that: "you can activate the VTM-4 by pressing the VTM-4 LOCK button while in first (1), second (2), or reverse (R) gear below 18 mph (30 km/h)." Apparantly, from reading the above post, you would not want to activate VTM-4 in second. However, if the key to driving forward up a hill is: 1st gear, VTM-4 on, and VSA off, I will try that later this month when I head back out to Colorado.

[hiPSI]

Yes you can do it in reverse the same way, from a standing start or while moving. Turn VSA off. Turn VTM-4 on. Back up until you can turn around. This truck is a little different than the traditional truck when it comes to four wheel drive operation. Read my explanation and it is easy to see why people (me included) got frustrated when it would not work intutively. Once I got it figured out (thanks Kodiak) I have no problems going places I went with my previous trucks (Dodge Dakota, Chevy 1500, Isuzu Trooper to name a few). Good luck and report back.

[hiPSI]

One more thing...you will spin (both forward and reverse) when you do it correctly so be careful.

[LadyRidge]

I only went forward.

[Webwader]

But, as far as I can tell, when engaged when the shift lever is in the proper position, the VTM-4 switch transfers more power to the rear wheels.

It also acts as a differential lock.

[CJMDWYER]

Odd you should mention the backing over a rock deal. I was doing some paver work in my backyard and wanted to make the trip around back as short as possible. I decided to back over my side yard toward my back gate. I backed up toward my yard until I met resistance (THE CURB) and then gave it more gas. Guess what? I popped right up over the curb with no spinning of the tires and not much effort at all. Also keep in mind I had a few hundered pounds of pavers in the bed. I have taken my 05 Odyssey camping up above Payson AZ before and have backed out of stickier spots than that. Must just be how you use what you've got or something.

[speed_racer]

I am trying to envision your situation. If I assume: 1) that by "curb" you mean the curb on the street, and; 2) that the street is paved, then backing over the curb would imply that you were backing somewhat crossways across a paved street? Would that mean that you were not on a hill in reverse, but on relatively flat pavement before you hit the "bump" (i.e. curb)? If so, then I can think of two things that might distinguish my situation from yours, that is:1) the dirt road, and; 2) the hill. I have not had any trouble on relatively flat pavement or dirt. Thanks for your input though. I am not trying to be difficult, just somewhat analytical. Please keep your experiences coming. -SR

[kbird]

For what it's worth..I've been on slopes of similar greater grade in conditions ranging from slick ice to muddy gravel to rutted with all of the above. Both forwards and backwards I've never needed to lock the 4. Crossing ruts on a rocky stream bed (rocks about 4 inches in diameter or so) I did have to turn of VSA but then it crawled over them like a tank with nary a hint of spin. At various times I've been loaded and unloaded and there doesn't seem to be much difference.

My bet is on a failed ABS sensor or permamanent tranny damage due to foreign particles...probably from a poor dealer fluid change.

[CJMDWYER]

I was trying to duplicate the 2X4 behind the rear wheel effect. I know in my 02 Ram that I had, I backed up the same curb and it spun the tires a bit before it actually went up the curb. Maybe it was the 20" wheels and low profile tires, who knows. I just know that the RL just climbed right up the curb in reverse. Now my 05 Ody has been backed up a hill steeper than that as I stated earlier. I had zero trouble backing out of a campsite with it. The 05 Ody is another great vehicle................