Front Brake Chatter - Severe

[cassan]

I have one of the first Ridgelines delivered (VIN ends 01630) and it just reached 40,000 miles.

For about the last 15,000 miles I have experienced increasingly severe front brake chatter during moderate to hard braking. I brought this to the attention of my dealer when I first noticed it. They checked the front brakes, said the pads looked GREAT but would be happy to machine the rotors and replace the pads at my cost. They assured me there was no real problem and I declined the quite expensive brake job.

At my most recent service visit this past week, I made a pretty big deal about the brakes to my service advisor. The chattering had become so bad that it was hard to hold onto the steering wheel during moderate braking. They checked again and this time confirmed that the front rotors were warped but also noted that the front pads were still pristine. In fact, the front pads (with 40,000 miles on them) were still at 9mm...i.e. they hadn't worn at all!

It seems pretty obvious to me that since the front pads haven't worn AT ALL, I either have rotors which are too soft, pads which are too hard, or there is a design issue with the front brakes (and no, I don't ride the brakes or trail brake at all).

The dealer contacted the factory and the factory said this was my problem and that once again I should pay for a brake job. I do have an extended warranty too

Anyone else having issues with the front brakes? In my mind, this is a pretty big safety issue and you would think Honda would at least take it a little more seriously and want to investigate given that there probably aren't too many Ridges out there with 40K on them yet?

-San Diego

[RIDGELINERNR]

I am starting to have some frt brakes issues myself. I have 16000 miles on my vehicle. I can feel that the rotors are starting to warp. Question? Do you drive in heavy traffic alot of the time on your comute to work?
I live in Minneapolis MN and the traffic here at times is nuts. I would think that the rotors would hold up better now days with the technology honda has. I have not checked with the dealer as of yet about this issue in fear of what you stated previously. I had a Ford F-150's in the past and they were notorius for this problem. The dealers always say that it is not their deal and is your responsibilility, The problem with the rotors IMO is that they do not disipate the heat properly when driving in heavy traffic with all the start and stop that is taking place. It is really frustrating when you have a new vehicle like this. I know I am going to check into what replacement cost of the parts are for the rotors. I would like to find an aftermarket rotor that are vented better so I do not have to do this repair every 20000 miles.

[25 Year Honda Owner]

I had a mid 80's Accord that had rotors that would warp every time you had to get on the brakes hard. Rotors were resurfaced several times. Since Honda went to the ABS, warped rotors seem to be a thing of the past.

[ridged]

I once read that many/most of the rotors that are installed on new vehicles are not properly cured before they are installed. Then, when the vehicles are put into service, the heat that's generated when applying the brakes is curing the rotors and, most likely, leading to warpage. This generally means that the rotors will need to be turned/machined back to a true condition. The problem is, in large part, a result of today's hurried/JIT manufacturing process.

[djeaux]

Just a sidenote here, but I have had "chatter" issues with several Honda automobiles. Interestingly, they seemed to begin right after the first oil change/service. (Because of where we live, we cannot have this level of service done at a dealership.) As best I can ascertain, the mechanics were being a tad "enthusiastic" with the tire rotations, torquing the lug nuts too hard & probably unevenly. In these cases, I had to have the rotors resurfaced or replaced.

On two occaisions, we had serious "chatter" after our friendly local mechanic (FLM) had replaced brake pads. Y'all know the tale: "We were doing the rotation & I noticed the pads were worn, so we replaced 'em & you owe me another $2,415,697.26." In both instances, FLM had not properly reinstalled the brake pad clips. Evidently, Honda's brake pads aren't like most GM products!

(To the credit of the Honda dealer who helped my daughter -- and NOT the dealer where I bought the car -- they replaced the rotor <I>under warranty</I> even though the car had 38K miles on it when she took it in. THAT's the definition of "good will warranty service" in my book!)

Moral of story: Read any independent the riot act about torquing lug nuts & make absolutely certain that brake pads are replaced by someone who realizes that a Honda is not a Buick.

[kermit777]

this may happen if the lug nuts are torqued improperly.

From http://www.automedia.com/Replacement...cr20050201rr/1

"Another cause of warped rotors is improper wheel nut torque. Over-tightening of wheel nuts can cause undue stress and warping of brake rotors. The best solution is to use a torque wrench. This is an especially important consideration with aluminum or performance alloy wheels. Proper torque values are also crucial when refastening slider pins, caliper mounts and associated brake hardware. A service manual is the best place to find the correct information on brake and rotor replacement procedures. When working on your brakes remember that "good enough" simply isn't. Taking the time to do it right is the best and safest route to take. "

[RIDGELINERNR]

After I got to work, I went into my estimating software and found the list price & part# for the frt rotors,

Rt & lt side frt rotors parts #'s are the same,
Part #45251sjca50
$118.42 per side
Really not to bad as far as price goes, just disappointed that a Honda would do this.
I am not a big fan of getting the rotors turned or resurfaced when the cost of the parts are fairly reasonable, in the past haveing the rotors turned on my F150, it increased the brakeing pressure you had to apply to the brake pedal and stopping distance was greatly reduced. The tolerances for abs brakes does not leave much room for less rotor width from the way they have been designed. Hope this info helps.
Has anyone found aftermarket rotors available yet?

[cassan]

Originally Posted by RIDGELINERNR

I am starting to have some frt brakes issues myself. I have 16000 miles on my vehicle. I can feel that the rotors are starting to warp. Question? Do you drive in heavy traffic alot of the time on your comute to work?

I do hit traffic from time to time, but for the most part it's not stop and go. I do come down a pretty long, steep grade but braking is rare as it's usually full speed down the hill.

If the pads showed that they were wearing along with the rotors I'd fork out the $ for a brake job, but with no pad wear at all, it seems to me that there must be something wrong that isn't a function of "normal wear" and it is Honda's responsibility to address this?

[schwejo]

my 2 cents, I'm fully on board with taking responsibility for normal wear and tear and for problems I may have caused, but in my opinion this wouldn't be one of them.

The Ridgeline is advertised as having abundant stopping power (not that you can better what the tires can do) but the brake system is advertised to be well if not overly designed. I'd say unless there are obvious signs of overheating like discolored metal from riding the brakes on a long down hill, that this is definitely a warranty repair. Sure, you can cook any rotor on a long downhill if you try, but it also needs to perform under normal conditions using proper driving techniques and be reasonably resistant to overheating. If thats not the case, certainly don't accept the dealers first denial of a warranty claim. If available, try another dealer and then don't hesitate to call the AHM number in the manual. Dealer experiences seem to vary widely thats for sure. This is kind of funny, (not the issue, but the dealers reply) because usually if there is any clear sign of warranty work the dealers are more than happy because I'm told they bill AHM at a higher rate than they do consumers. Really Really hope I'm not perpetuating a myth, but I was told that this is common knowledge. I'm only relating this because when I had my struts replaced to fix the boing issue, at first AHM didn't want to replace both struts because the issue was obvious on the left and negligible on the right. From my perspective I didn't want to have to come back a month later and have them do the same job on the other side all over again. I don't know how it all transpired in the end, but it did take a little insistence on my part and my mechanic making the determination that both needed to be replaced and getting the necessary approval from AHM. Seems like this is a process (maybe not at the dealer level) where if you accept the first answer you may not get the best service.

[LadyRidge]

No chatter here.....clean as a whistle......46,500 miles.