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Finally eD sq-10 behind the seat install completed *pics and box comparison shots*

138K views 395 replies 70 participants last post by  mike4100 
#1 ·
Finally did it. I designed the Box on eD's site. After reading over ChrisM's therad over and over I knew I couldnt re dup this box. I totally understand what chris meant by having to router out the back of the box If u look at the back of the stock box there is a slanted router'd out section for a cross brace. What I did to counteract that was flush mouunt the sub. Which worked out perfectly. after getting the seat back in I have a good 2-maybe 3 inches of clearence between the back of the seat and the sub even at full blast and full gain the sub doesnt hit the back of the seat. Its not a god awakening boom. but its light years better then the stock system.

its .34 cubic feet and I placed about 1.5 lbs of pillow stuffing in there to help it a tad. I dont work for eD they didnt pay me to do this. I figure if u gusy wanna replace the stock sub with something bigger and keep the underneath of ur back seat free for what u bought the truck for ( storage) then here u go



 
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#252 ·
I erased to link to SonicElectronix where I have access. Sorry about that! I've been looking at a lot of things in the last few days and asking opinons of all the members, everybody has been great. I made a decision last night and I got an Alpine amp from one of the forum members.
The link was to the combo that Sonic had, Kenwood amp with a box pioneer sub and installation kit.
 
#253 ·
At some point that combo would have been a good deal, but you can basically get the components (box, sub and amp) separate for about the same combo price now, the sub was on sale not long ago, and the 8 gauge wiring kit was CCA wire not OFC wire. I still think that box has potential once the feet are shaved just hard to know if it is a bit too long or too thick too fit. Also the box is 5/8 thick not 3/4 inch. But I guess some members have built their box with 3/4 inch in the front and 1/2 on the back from what I read.

Thanks for the update and keep us informed about your box when it is ready.
 
#254 ·
Ah, you bought laserguy's T220? I almost did, but went with something else. I think you'll be happy with what you decided.
 
#261 · (Edited)
I love this place you can find answers to all the questions. That's why I try to buy components that has already been tried and proven that it works or it doesn't. A good example: everybody says/said that there was a significant difference the moment the tweeters are swaped for better quality, I had my heart set for the JBL GTO18T but got the tweeter that go with Pioneer TS-A1604C component speaker, it's smaller in size but my knowledge is very limited so I don't know what makes one better than the other.
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On the other hand I will get the subwoofer http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18211_Pioneer-TS-SW2501S4.html to match the my Alpine Amp, the owner's manual says to use #8 wire and also use a 25 amp fuse as close as possible to the + post of the battery. I think Laserguy mentioned using #10 with a 40 amp fuse. I work in maintenance and I have access to anything from #14 to #4 (THHN commercial wire) , I guess I could use #8 wire with a Scosche fuse holder (Walmart has them too) with a 40 amp fuse or smaller if needed. I think these amp wiring kits are overated especially the high current wires, I work with 460 volts 3 phase, and the way I see it as long as the wire has the right minimum overcurrent protection based on the wire, it should be ok, unfourtunatly the NEC does not cover automotive. I think I will use #8 thhn with a 40 amp fuse.
I've included some tech drawings of two of the speakers suggested for the box that would go behind the seat.
 

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#262 ·
I used a 60am inline fuse with my Alpine M500 Ian posted a page or two back. That amp has dual 30A fuses so the 60 is equal to the amp ones.

I just double checked the model number of that pioneer and it is actually the same thing I have. It will fit in the box and within the given dimensions. It is real tight and needs to be centered dead on or you'll encounter fitment issues when you get it put in the box.
 
#263 ·
Wire Gauge Recommended
Maximum Fuse Size
00 awg 400 amps
0 awg 325 amps
1 awg 250 amps
2 awg 200 amps
4 awg 125 amps
6 awg 80 amps
8 awg 50 amps
10 awg 30 amps
12 awg 20 amps
14 awg 15 amps
16 awg 7.5 amps
These are the recommended maximum fuse ratings for the corresponding wire size. Using a smaller fuse than what's recommended here will be perfectly safe.

The fuses on the amps mean nothing manufacturers put fuses for protection of the amp, it has nothing to do with the power wire and the heat it actually generates.

The chart above shows the max fuse rating for a given wire gauge, it is okay to use a smaller fuse, I have a 100 amp fuse for my 4 gauge wire, my amp has 2 thirty amp fuses.
 
#264 ·
I have always known it to be a rule of thumb to match the amplifier's total fuse rating with the inline fuse rating. My amp is very small and has a 25 amp fuse. I put a 30 amp AGU fuse inline because I couldn't find a 25 amp AGU. As far as the gauge of wire, if the amp calls for 8 gauge, use at least that. There's no harm in using bigger wire, but don't use anything smaller.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#265 ·
Yeah that rule has been used in the past.

I have no idea, at some point it is a choice as long as the fuse is not rated higher than that chart and it is not lower than one gauge smaller max rating or lower than one step below on the chart it should be okay. In other words the minimum fuse amp rating would be the highest of the immediate lower gauge wire than the one being used.

Example 4 gauge- 125 max minimum 80 amps

8 gauge 50 amps max. 30 amps minimum

That is just how I would do it and not go by the amplifier fuses
 
#266 ·
So my 60 is a tad to big for the wire. Oh well, i'm sure ill get around to changing it at some point.
 
#267 ·
Maybe, yeah if you want to feel better. I searched on many sites and all kits with 8 gauge wire come with 50-40 amp fuses. That tells us something. The old way is not quite the right way. I was lucky to steal a Tsunami 4 gauge wiring kit for $19 a couple of years ago on amazon, it came with a 60 amp manl fuse, but it was probably an old stock, all new 4 gauge kits come with 80 amp fuses.


Let's not get off topic too much guys, this thread is about the box.

What is the update with the Box Sparky? the amp should arrive tomorrow afternoon.
 
#268 ·
Maybe, yeah if you want to feel better. I searched on many sites and all kits with 8 gauge wire come with 50-40 amp fuses. That tells us something. The old way is not quite the right way. I was lucky to steal a Tsunami 4 gauge wiring kit for $19 a couple of years ago on amazon, it came with a 60 amp manl fuse, but it was probably an old stock, all new 4 gauge kits come with 80 amp fuses.
I got to find a thread regarding wiring and post some of my findings ( for some it might be old news bur for me it's news!)
Let's not get off topic too much guys, this thread is about the box.
I got some great impute from JadedSoulX regarding my box, he gave me some good advice regarding the height of the box, unfortunately I started gluing before I got his message, but lucky for me the box it is at 11.5 inches high and 19.5 inches wide. I’ve been looking high and wide (pardon the pun) for a the most shallow 10“ sub I could find and within budget ($100.00). The MB Quart RLP 254 is a hair under 3 inch, and then you got the Clarion WF2510 which is at 2 ¾ top mounted depth, but someone (don’t remember who) said in a previous post that this sub was not very reliable, then I move on to the Pioneer TS-SW2501S4 that comes in at 3” and the other Pioneer Shallow-Mount TS-SW251 at 3 1/8 and then there is the Tang Band http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=445841&postcount=54, this is essentially the same sub. I think that this one is made on the same assembly line in China and it uses the same exact basket. Moving on and then you have the Earthquake Sound SWS-10X at 2 11/16 but a little outside my budget. There was a post regarding the companies that produce speakers it was in three categories : Very good, good , and don’t even bother! I tried to find it, but ….does anybody remember where it is.


What is the update with the Box Sparky? the amp should arrive tomorrow afternoon.
It had arrived in Portland , it should be in my hands before I go to work (I hope)this afternoon.
 
#274 · (Edited)
Finally the subwoofer has been delivered, and I will constinue the build of the box. Based on first hand fitting without the front face the height should be more than 11 1/2 more like 11 3/4 high. Will post pictures later.

According to Pioneer I am supposed to mount the speaker offset to the center, any reason why? I seems that everybody that has installed this type of speaker was put it in dead center, (I'm I the only that read the mounting instructions):confused:


Speaking of posting pictures, I noticed there is two types of pictures that are posted, the one you upload as attachement,that's easy but you can not click and expand! How do you past the one that you click and expand?
 
#290 · (Edited)
The joints of the box in the first picture were sealed with some Acrylic latex culking with silicone.
The innercircle was attached the outer circle and also selaed the joints, now I'm ready to attached the face piece there's a couple of places that need to be sanded to eliminate a couple of gaps. My ques tion how do I seal the joints of the cover once it's on? My guess would be to some on my fingers and apply it the joints inside the box, but what about the outside of the box, what can I do about that ?
 

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#278 ·
I used 16 gauge for mine. Works just fine. I used to use 12 gauge back in the day, but there is no detectable difference between the two. Plus, 16 gauge is less expensive and easier to work with. If we were talking a very high-power system with multiple 12's or 15's, I'd suggest using 12 gauge. For this application, 16 is more than enough.
 
#287 ·
DC is very different from AC. YES, he is in essence correct.

However, Distance from source is what makes the Gauge(Size) of wire important for DC flow. DC over distance from source is (somewhat) proportional to size of wire needed.

If, you run a wire a "small" distance, a "small" wire is needed to carry the "power". Where as a thicker wire is required to carry the same "power" over a longer distance. (For DC)

This is why AC is used in household electricity. It requires a smaller wire to carry the same amount of electricity over a longer distance vs DC.

DC loses a lot of it's "power" over distance depending on the size of the wire. So the further your AMP is from the source or destination of the "power" it is receiving or sending, the thicker the wire needs to be to maintain the same amount of "power".

For instance, (Assuming the sub is in the rear seat of the truck) if you installed an amp in the trunk of the RL, you would want to run "Very thick" wire to the amp from the battery, and a "Medium Thick" wire from the amp to the sub. If you install the amp in the engine compartment, you would need to run a thin(ish) wire to the amp, and a thick(er) wire to the sub.

So, in this specific instance if the Amp, and the sub are both in the "Back seat area" you will run a "Thick" wire from the battery to the amp, and a "Thin" wire to the sub because it is very close to the amp, where as the Battery is "FAR" from the Amp vs the Sub.
No wonder Edison and his DC system failed big time over George A/C system.
 
#288 ·
Sorry, Did i expose my geek there? I think i might have.
We all have an inner-geek here. Some larger than others. I think I may be in the higher percentile... :act027:
 
#291 · (Edited)
Sparky, I would think you would need to take the driver out and run a liberal bead of sealant from the inside... If anything the pressure from within would be pushing "out", so any sealant would probably be most effective on the inside of the box.. From there, you could probably pack/push more sealant from the outside in as well, although ideally you wouldn't want to have any "gaps" to fill per-say.. I am no expert on box building, but that would make sense to me. I suppose epoxy would work also and could be sanded afterwards? Or, I just read that gorilla wood glue will expand to fill gaps?

Now that I think of it.. When you built the main "box", did you use wood glue AND screws?? Hopefully, and if so, the wood glue used in that first assembly step should have made it fairly airtight, anything you do afterwards is a bonus and adds to the original glue (which does the majority of the sealing/holding together)

Question for you, what are your outside dimensions for Top and Bottom? I know that 4" top depth fits, and 5.5 bottom depth fits - did you stick with these? or go bigger?? I'm interested to know the max outside dimensions top and bottom that will fit. I'm planning on a pioneer TS-SW1041D sub in similar enclosure.
 
#293 ·
Now that I think of it.. When you built the main "box", did you use wood glue AND screws?? Hopefully, and if so, the wood glue used in that first assembly step should have made it fairly airtight, anything you do afterwards is a bonus and adds to the original glue (which does the majority of the sealing/holding together)

Question for you, what are your outside dimensions for Top and Bottom? I know that 4" top depth fits, and 5.5 bottom depth fits - did you stick with these? or go bigger?? I'm interested to know the max outside dimensions top and bottom that will fit. I'm planning on a pioneer TS-SW1041D sub in similar enclosure.
Answers : from top to bottom 11 1/2 inches high and yes I used 4" at the top and 5 1/2 at the bottom. I did use wood glue (Titebond III, it has a longer assembly time and came highly recommended) and crown staples no screws
Your TS SW1041D is the exact same dimension than the one I used.
If you notice the second picture there is a gap between the inner ring and outer ring (same for the second picture). This will filled in by glue once I assemble the front. But those gap were cause to the fact the sub is 11 1/8 OD and my front is 11 1/2 high , I started buiolding the box before having the sub that's why there's a gap of 3/16 on top and bottom
In the nexr couple of days I will soon start building another box for a fellow forum dweller and that one will a tad taller, taking it to 11 3/4 inches high still keaping the same top and bottom mesurements.
 

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#292 ·
If you use a liberal amount of wood glue, using Liquid Nails sealant isn't necessary. That being said, I still use it just to make absolutely certain there are no air gaps. The best way is as you described - put some on your finger, reach through the driver opening and seal it up as best you can. You can use a flashlight and a mirror to ensure good coverage. However, like I said, if you use enough wood glue, you shouldn't have any issue. Also, make sure you use a gasket for the driver and for the terminal cup to ensure they are sealed. The terminal cup is typically the weak point in a sealed enclosure because it has the greatest tendency to have air gaps. The foam backing that comes on the driver and terminal cup (if any) usually isn't very good. I like using weather stripping you get from a hardware store. The material used in them is much more dense and is specifically designed to keep air from passing through it.
 
#294 ·
I went shopping to get the wire (and another terminal cup for the next box)to make the connections between the terminal cup in the speaker. I know that the wires that go on the terminal cup have to be soldered but I wasn't sure about the wires that are connected to the sub were to be soldered o just using crimp on connectors, stereo dude says there's always a chance that they will pull out....because of vibration.

Weather stripping is next on the list.....of items to get



Thanks to all of you for the imput,
 
#295 · (Edited)
It is always a good idea to solder, and heat shrink driver terminals. I prefer to solder wire to the terminals and leave a few inches, then decide if I use a bullet connector but still shrink tube it. In the case of connections inside the box, just good solder is good, no need to shrink tube since it is inside and there is no exposure to air coming from the outside, although it is cheap.

Can you imagine just using spade terminals with all the air pressure from the sub inside the box, ha ha. Forget the road vibration. Solder for sure. :act035:
 
#296 ·
It is always a good idea to solder, and heat shrink driver terminals. I prefer to solder wire to the terminals and leave a few inches, then decide if I use a bullet connector but still shrink tube it. In the case of connections inside the box, just good solder is good, no need to shrink tube since it is inside and there is no exposure to air coming from inside, although it is cheap.

Can you imagine just using spade terminals with all the air pressure from the sub inside the box, ha ha. Forget the road vibration. Solder for sure. :act035:
See, it's good to post what "one" is about to do! I wouls never think of putting shrink tube I have several dozen feet, of different sizes, I think it will be one piece of wire no "butt or bullet splices. The wire in the enclosure will be long enough but short that it will not dangle like a guitar string that is too loose...
 
#298 ·
I'm like you laserguy I like to built thing that will last and sometimes like you said overkill. I"ll figure out a way to leave some slack in there.
I also read somewhere from one of the members that he stuffed the enclosure and then removed it, and found there was difference in sound...can that be possible?;act028:
 
#299 ·
I'm glad you ask those questions, I'm like you. Every detail counts, many times things I do are not necessary. Just feels like something is missing, call it overkill or being a perfectionist, that is how we do it. I'm learning as I read, it is hard for me to just do it having the big picture but without covering all the small details that are part of the final project. Im sure many others do as much if not more, just simply choose not to get into details that may not mean much to many.

Good point, the poly fill helps inside the boxes and that can also keep the wires from moving.

Ian and Hofffam will know more about the benefits of using poly fill
 
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