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VTM-4 Fluid Change

170K views 269 replies 106 participants last post by  smufguy 
#1 ·
VTM-4 Fluid Change

I hope these pictures help if you decide to change your VTM-4 fluid. I purchased the VTM-4 Fluid and two crush washers from the dealer; they are not available from Auto Zone. You will also need the following items; a 3/8" socket and extender, 6' of 5/8" x 1/2" plastic tubing and a funnel.

Fluid Tire Auto part


Step 1 Loosen the top plug first and then remove the bottom drain plug.
Step 2 Drain the fluid.

Auto part Vehicle Headlamp Car Automotive lighting


Step 3 Open the trunk hatch and remove the drain plug. Push the tubing through the drain plug. Now feed the plastic tube into the top plug. Close and tighten the bottom drain plug and crush ring.

Trunk Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Auto part


The view from underneath shows the path of the tube and if run correctly the tube will not pull out.

Auto part Automotive exterior Vehicle Bumper Car


Step 4 Pour the fluid into the funnel and fill until the fluid seeps out of the top plug. (See below)
Step 5 Re-install the top plug and crush ring.


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#218 ·
Well - Went back up there today just to refresh my memory on the BG stuff and attached the warranty they claim. From what I'm told, Honda recommends the BG products.

Just a little history-I've been good friends with the manager for 20 + years and have known the Service Manager for about that same amount of time. Have purchased a number of vehicles from them and have always serviced my own vehicles.

All that being said - While up there today and speaking with the service manager, they're still recommending the BG products and service. Since I haven't had any issues whatsoever since the last Rear-Diff service 27k miles ago, and to keep the warranty in-force on the rear-diff, I opted to have them service it again. While on the lift I said the heck with it and let them do the transfer case, also bringing it under the same BG backed warranty. For the price they were going to charge me to do both($175.00) I figured it would keep me from having to crawl under it in this cold weather. While there I decided to pick up a case of the trans fluid(ATF-DW1) @ 12 for $84.00 which I thought was a pretty good price. They also didn't charge me for the 27 point check and the mechanic let me know that my rear brakes pads were down to 3mm with no damage to the rotors yet. Stopped by a local parts store and pick up a set of rear pads so I can replace them next week.

In reviewing the receipt it looks like they used the same lube in both the Rear-Diff & Transfer case and only used the additive in the rear-diff. Anyway, I just wanted to share the info.

Best Regards,
Richard



 
#220 ·
Just trying to research and found this.

BG Ultraguard HD
[BG 752] $23.99
BG Ultraguard HD


BG Ultra Guard II is the first "true" multi-purpose gear oil available in the automotive market. It is a synthetic (polyalphaolefin) gear oil blended to SAE 75W-140 viscosity. This is the H.D. version of the Ultra Guard 70W/90 but for more severe applications such as race differentials. BG Ultra Guard provides thermal stability, optimum drive line efficiency, quieter operation, protection against wear, pitting and corrosion, seal compatibility and improved seal performance, improved fuel efficiency, reduced maintenance, long drain life, extended component life, application versatility. BG Ultra Guard II is covered by the BG Best Guarantee Program.

Not for use in manual transmissions
 
#222 · (Edited)
You are on your own. No fluid intended for a 70-90 gear box is going into my VTM diff.

I have not seen a chart from BG showing VTM4 equivalents they recommend. Has anyone?
Even Amsoil does not have an equivalent fluid for VTM4.

Wolfshead Lubricants recommends their syn ATF to replace Z1 & VTM4. If you know what ATF looks like, and what synthetic gear oil looks like, would you be putting it in your VTM? I don't think so.

One thing for sure, we have several transmission problem threads, but very few on the VTM. I bet that could change quick!
The fact that in general the VTM is very reliable, is a great reason not to use a different fluid than what's recommended.
 
#223 · (Edited)
Tell me why I would want to pay more for a product that does not have Honda approval, regardless what his shop says.

Seems to me there is no upside but the downside could be huge... about $4400 huge for a new rear diff because I'll bet Honda won't cover it if it fails inside the warranty period with a record of 3rd party fluids being used.

Sorry, RNG. Not to pick on you, but I fail to see any benefit, cost or otherwise in using anything other than the VTM-4 fluid in the rear diff. On the other hand, seems the downside is significant.

I'd like to see Honda's official position on warranty coverage with 3rd party fluids. I think I already know what they will say. Remember, your dealer is not Honda, although they do represent them. Honda still sets warranty terms and conditions.

If it turns out that the BG product is approved for the VTM-4 system, it will be the first product I've ever heard of that has that approval.

Btw, that is not a Honda warranty. I'd say it's probably like any of those 3rd party warranties as offered by Amsoil or K&N etc. Bet you'd have fun chasing that in court.
 
#226 ·
#224 ·
Wise words! The description given on the previous page is marketing hype without an ounce of verifiable proof.

Universal lubricants are better than running on low level fluids when the original is not accessible, otherwise I'd rather have the genuine article. and erase all doubt. :)
 
#225 ·
Greetings - Hey, I don't feel I'm getting picked on at all. I'm just sharing my experience. My concern when I came here was that VTM4 is/was recommended and that my first service Honda used the BG products. When I brought it in for the first service 27k miles ago I entrusted the dealership to protect my investment. In doing so they recommended the BG warranty. After giving it a thorough read it looked like a good product. With that information, plus the fact that I've known the GM and service manager for many years and that this dealership has been in this town for at least 20 years, and their service dept has received numerous awards/kudos, I felt they would take care of my investment.

I'm not a Honda tech, just a guy that's worked on his own vehicles since I was a kid in the 60's(and now almost 60). I rely on those smarter than me, folks like yourselves, that know more about this stuff than I. Had I known, I would have preferred the VTM4 at the first service but here I am. 27k miles down the road and all is still well. Granted, I'm by no means driving in the "sever" category, but 6 months ago I was chained to 24" oak tree that we cut down trying to pull it off the stump for nearly an hour. Dirt road, 1st gear with VTM locked. Never did get it off the stump, but that truck never spun a tire and never made a sound like that rear diff was gonna have a problem.

Today while at the honda service dept I asked a lot of questions about the BG stuff and they're still recommending it. I decided to stick with the BG since I had already crossed that threshold. I guess I'll be the sacrificial lamb on this one.

I'm not recommending anyone do what I did. At this point, what's done is done. Only time will tell if it was a mistake. Just wanted to share.

This board is a wonderful resource for Ridgeline owners and I've resolved a couple of issues(tailgate latch and rear seat pulleys) with information provided by it's users. Many thanks for the assist.

Best regards to all.

Richard
 
#228 · (Edited)
Here you go, it had to be somewhere!!!

http://www.kansasbg.com/Complete_Set_of_Spec_and_Tech/0792.pdf

I don't like that last statement.. what is 'excessive' use?


No foul, RNG. Good luck with your truck. We can be an obstinate crowd especially us seniors, or early morning/no caffeine, etc..ask for a list of excuses, I've got plenty...but let us know how you fare with the fluids they used.
There are those who don't even give their cars regular maintenance, no one can put that on you. Would be interesting to see if other dealers use the same, maybe only if it is out of warranty.
 
#230 ·
SpeedLever -

First service on the rear-diff was done at 26k miles back in 2009. This is interesting because if I'm not mistaken my RL was still under the Honda warranty at that time. Looking at the BG warranty document it appears(to me) that the rear-diff falls under "PLAN 1" since the initial service was performed between 0-36k miles.

Since my RL now has 56k miles on it, within 30k of the last service, having them use BG in the rear-diff keeps it under BG's warranty(Plan 1 w/$4000.00 limit).

Having them service the transfer case w/BG @ 56k(between 36k-75k) brings it under BG Plan 2 but only after 500 miles. I guess this covers BG in the event your having problems before the service, sort of like a "grace" period for them.

If you notice in "Plan 2" it clearly states to be serviced by a "professional Technician" as well as a little further down in the document.

The only thing that irks me at this point is that I'm tied to the honda service dept at this point to keep the extended BG warranty in force. I'm not too concerned about the transfer case but I believe it would be difficult to flush the BG stuff completely from the rear-diff. The upside, (if there is one) is that BG warranty's the rear-diff in the event of a failure. But then we don't know they'll respond if I have a problem.

This has been an interesting discussion. I'll be sure to report back periodically with how it's performing. I appreciate the comments from all those who chimed in.

Gotta jump on those brake pads this morning. Garage floor is gonna be cold. Ya'll take care.

Wishing all of you a Happy Thanksgiving, a Merry Christmas, and a safe and prosperous New Year.

Best Regards to All.

Richard
 
#231 ·
Thanks for the clarification. Earlier (post 212) you mentioned that the rear diff was done at 33k miles. So I assumed that was the 2nd service since the first one should have been done by 15k miles.

The rear diff should be under the Honda 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranty, not the 3 year/36k mile warranty.

Out of curiosity, do you go by the MM callouts for your service or do you have your own schedule that you use?

Good luck with the brake pad job. It should be a simple job, especially if you don't have any warped rotor issues... just a pad swap only. Which brings to mind another question: have you replaced your brake fluid yet? This would be a good time to do so if you haven't. That's a 3 year item.
 
#232 ·
Sorry about the 33k in the first post. I was going by memory and at my age that's a bad thing. Should have looked at the document before I asked the question. I didn't know about the 5/60k on the rear-diff but it does make me wonder why my dealership would have me go BG so early into my warranty.

I don't use the MM at all. I'm old school mechanic that still changes oil in all vehicles between 3-4k and never longer than 4 months. Transmission about every 30k so I'll get that done this week. I'll do the brake and PS fluid next weekend. I've got a mity-vac that I've had for years and use to do my other vehicles. I'm a firm believer that fluids are the life-blood of a vehicle. Keep em fresh and they'll run forever.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.


Regards,
Richard
 
#233 · (Edited)
I bought a MV this year and used it for my PS fluids, brake jobs, tranny fluids and oil change. I was underwhelmed by the MV on the brakes as I got so much air leakage around the threads on the bleeder screw that fluid extraction was not as robust as I desired. It still got the job done, but not like I anticipated. I haven't wrapped my bleeder screw threads in teflon tape yet. Maybe next time.

I was also not favorably impressed by the MV doing the oil and tranny fluid extraction as too much was left in the sump. I have a Fumoto Valve installed for oil drain purposes and will use that. Since the mag plug has to come out with a tranny fluid change anyway, there's not much reason to use the MV on the tranny fluid that I can see.

Have you had better luck with the MV doing the brake fluid?

For the PS fluid, the MV is super. I have a thread about that here somewhere.
http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=574000&postcount=13

Regarding the old school stuff... understood. If you haven't seen it, here are maintenance schedules that approximate the Maintenance Minder. I was a reluctant convert to the MM system, but am using it comfortably now.
http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=376449&postcount=11

Here's the normal service schedule:


One of the differences between the MM and the schedule is:
1) rear diff changes at 15k, 30k, and then every 30k on the schedule. The MM calls for it on the oil change prior to 15k, then every 30k.

I'm also a believer in frequent fluid changes and try to do the tranny every other oil change. The PS fluid is not even a service item, but I've learned it is wise to routinely change that too and plan to do that every 5 years/60k miles or so. Same for the coolant, even though it's a 10 year/120k mile item.
 
#235 ·
SpeedLever - Sounds like you and I went to the same school. With regard to the MV, it's perfect for pulling fluid from the reservoir and mediocre at best at the bleeder. Like most, my experience has been too much air seepage at the bleeder. I've replaced the brake fluid in many vehicles to include motorcycles(harley/honda/suzuki etc). I do the bulk of the work with the MV, and ALWAYS finish with PUMP/HOLD/LOOSEN. Been doing it that way for 40+ years and never had a problem. Every now and then a sticky proportioning valve will act up but is easily overcome.

That Fumoto Valve looks like the cats-meow, gonna have to pick one up. Appreciate you sharing the MM schedule. You know, I've tried to follow the one for the oil changes but "old school" kicks in and I go ahead and change it. Oh well, maybe one day when I'm feeling my oats I'll let it go until MM tells me to change it. (Maybe) <<GRIN>>.

Anyway - Just finished the rear pads on the RL. Plenty of material left on the old ones, rotors are perfect. It took an hour from start to finish, including setup/cleanup/test drive. About what I expected from past experience with disc brakes.

Gotta get that brake fluid changed ASAP. Looking dark. I've always used Valvoline synthetic when changing brake/PS fluid. What's your take on Synthetic Brake/PS fluid in the RL?

Thanks,
Richard
 
#238 ·
My mechanic who also drives an RL, swears by BG lubricants, especially transmission and gear boxes. He, as well as customers have noticed improvements in shift quality over Z1 in numerous Hondas. He has little experience with DW1 to say which is better. He would not change out the fluid until it's needed as BG fluids are expensive. and maybe not until the factory warranty is up, but that's a personal decision.
He has used it in his Toyota Tundra and Audi Q5.
Not enough miles on the RL to change it out at this point, but he plans to use them there also.
 
#239 ·
Maybe we need a thread on BG lubes.

Or not. At least not until Honda offers up a statement as to warranty coverage using BG lubes in lieu of VTM-4 fluid or DW-1 tranny fluid.

I wouldn't mind learning more about them and why they would be used instead of the Honda product. But no way would I consider them without Honda defining the warranty issue. I do not care to dive into the legal cesspool of 3rd party warranty coverages.
 
#242 ·
FWIW, there is no Honda oil. At some point in the past, it was re-branded Mobil non-synthetic oil.
http://www.piloteers.org/forums/348560-post8.html

For routine changes in the shop, I'm sure the dealers buy in bulk whatever meets the spec when they're buying.
 
#243 ·
BG is over-priced as are several other exotic brands of motor oil and most brand name motor oils are good enough, some even overkill for likely 99% of the cars/trucks out there.

Grearbox lubes on the other hand are not quite as common, there is a fair amount of variation between automakers, and they are not serviced as often. I guess some case could be made for superior lubes, but most of our knowledge of them is based on hype. Not to say there is not some truth in what they say, but without conclusive and extensive test results not many folks are going to spend more hard-earned dollars to find out.
 
#245 ·
I don't remember the WalMart pricing on the 5 qt jugs of Mobil1 0w-20. But somewhere here I posted some pics of prices in the $25 range for Mobil 1 5w-20 5 quart jugs. That's $5/qt. But the individual qt bottles are higher.
 
#246 ·
Depends on the 'grade' as well as the viscosity with regards to M1. Walmart has the more expensive extended performance M1 (gold label) for only $2 more the regular M1 5 20 the last time I bought. Pretty good against most chain auto parts stores that run easily run $30-34.
 
#247 ·
Yes. Now that WM has M1EP 5w-20 in 5 qt containers, that is what I buy. I think they're about $3 more than straight M1... ~$28 instead of $25.

I'll have to check the price on 0w-20 next time I pass that way.
 
#248 ·
Did my first VTM-4 fluid change today. Well, not the first the truck has had...just the first one I did myself. I can only say one thing...I don't know WTF I didn't do this myself every since I have owned the truck...it is sooo easy. I usually had my dealership do it and they charged waaaaaaaaaaay too much for a 20 minute job.

The hardest part of this job was breaking the fill/drain plugs free. Once I got them opened, the rest of the job...getting the fluid in...and putting the fill plug back in...8-10 minutes...tops. It took more time to put the old fluid in a jug for recycling and put my tools away than to do this fluid change.

Never again...will I have the dealership do this change for me and charge me...what...?....$75 freaking dollars...or whatever it is they charge!
 
#250 ·
I haven't kept up with this thread, but if someone used 75w140 fluid in the VTM-4 unit the VTM-4 unit is ruined would have to be replaced to regain functionality. 75w140 is about as far away from VTM-4 fluid as pancake syrup is from motor oil.

The problem with such things is there's no direct indication that the unit no longer functions. He's just driving a front wheel drive only Ridgeline.
 
#252 ·
1. Gallon on VTM4 (less will be used)
2. Small handpump from Wallyworld and teflon extension piece
3. Wrench and extension (no gorilla had tightened my bolts)

My last Diff change was done at Honda.... they unfortuately had a gorilla tightening my bolts. My wife held the wrench and i gave it a swift kick with my foot to break the seal. LOL
 
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