VTM-4 Fluid Change

[laserguy]

Mmmm, should we start using BG now then for the VTM? I already have a Honda gallon for my next one but maybe others may lik the BG idea

[rollinhonda]

You are on your own. No fluid intended for a 70-90 gear box is going into my VTM diff.

I have not seen a chart from BG showing VTM4 equivalents they recommend. Has anyone?
Even Amsoil does not have an equivalent fluid for VTM4.

Wolfshead Lubricants recommends their syn ATF to replace Z1 & VTM4. If you know what ATF looks like, and what synthetic gear oil looks like, would you be putting it in your VTM? I don't think so.

One thing for sure, we have several transmission problem threads, but very few on the VTM. I bet that could change quick!
The fact that in general the VTM is very reliable, is a great reason not to use a different fluid than what's recommended.

[speedlever]

Tell me why I would want to pay more for a product that does not have Honda approval, regardless what his shop says.

Seems to me there is no upside but the downside could be huge... about $4400 huge for a new rear diff because I'll bet Honda won't cover it if it fails inside the warranty period with a record of 3rd party fluids being used.

Sorry, RNG. Not to pick on you, but I fail to see any benefit, cost or otherwise in using anything other than the VTM-4 fluid in the rear diff. On the other hand, seems the downside is significant.

I'd like to see Honda's official position on warranty coverage with 3rd party fluids. I think I already know what they will say. Remember, your dealer is not Honda, although they do represent them. Honda still sets warranty terms and conditions.

If it turns out that the BG product is approved for the VTM-4 system, it will be the first product I've ever heard of that has that approval.

Btw, that is not a Honda warranty. I'd say it's probably like any of those 3rd party warranties as offered by Amsoil or K&N etc. Bet you'd have fun chasing that in court.

[rollinhonda]

Wise words! The description given on the previous page is marketing hype without an ounce of verifiable proof.

Universal lubricants are better than running on low level fluids when the original is not accessible, otherwise I'd rather have the genuine article. and erase all doubt.

[RNG]

Greetings - Hey, I don't feel I'm getting picked on at all. I'm just sharing my experience. My concern when I came here was that VTM4 is/was recommended and that my first service Honda used the BG products. When I brought it in for the first service 27k miles ago I entrusted the dealership to protect my investment. In doing so they recommended the BG warranty. After giving it a thorough read it looked like a good product. With that information, plus the fact that I've known the GM and service manager for many years and that this dealership has been in this town for at least 20 years, and their service dept has received numerous awards/kudos, I felt they would take care of my investment.

I'm not a Honda tech, just a guy that's worked on his own vehicles since I was a kid in the 60's(and now almost 60). I rely on those smarter than me, folks like yourselves, that know more about this stuff than I. Had I known, I would have preferred the VTM4 at the first service but here I am. 27k miles down the road and all is still well. Granted, I'm by no means driving in the "sever" category, but 6 months ago I was chained to 24" oak tree that we cut down trying to pull it off the stump for nearly an hour. Dirt road, 1st gear with VTM locked. Never did get it off the stump, but that truck never spun a tire and never made a sound like that rear diff was gonna have a problem.

Today while at the honda service dept I asked a lot of questions about the BG stuff and they're still recommending it. I decided to stick with the BG since I had already crossed that threshold. I guess I'll be the sacrificial lamb on this one.

I'm not recommending anyone do what I did. At this point, what's done is done. Only time will tell if it was a mistake. Just wanted to share.

This board is a wonderful resource for Ridgeline owners and I've resolved a couple of issues(tailgate latch and rear seat pulleys) with information provided by it's users. Many thanks for the assist.

Best regards to all.

Richard

[rollinhonda]

Originally Posted by speedlever

If it turns out that the BG product is approved for the VTM-4 system, it will be the first product I've ever heard of that has that approval.

you can add this one: 2nd paragraph

http://www.wolfshead.com/specsheets/...lsynthetic.pdf

[Ourfarm09]

Originally Posted by RNG

I travel to Fort Stewart about once a week and come right past you on 196.

Regards,
Richard

You pass right by my work. The school bus shop on Highway 84. I believe I may have seen you a time or two. I know I have seen a Ridge with SC plates.

[rollinhonda]

Here you go, it had to be somewhere!!!

http://www.kansasbg.com/Complete_Set..._Tech/0792.pdf

I don't like that last statement.. what is 'excessive' use?


No foul, RNG. Good luck with your truck. We can be an obstinate crowd especially us seniors, or early morning/no caffeine, etc..ask for a list of excuses, I've got plenty...but let us know how you fare with the fluids they used.
There are those who don't even give their cars regular maintenance, no one can put that on you. Would be interesting to see if other dealers use the same, maybe only if it is out of warranty.

[speedlever]

Originally Posted by rollinhonda

you can add this one: 2nd paragraph

http://www.wolfshead.com/specsheets/...lsynthetic.pdf

No kidding.

From the 2nd page:


While they can self-approve all they want, what matters is what Honda considers the equivalent of their recommended fluids.

RNG, you're a good sport. You may well have come across a true equivalent fluid to VTM-4 fluid. Shucks, it might even be a better product than VTM-4 fluid. That fact that you've driven it 27k miles without having any strange noises or problems is encouraging.

OTOH, I simply have no means to determine how the BG fluid will perform other than what Honda says to use.

I would still be curious at to what Honda's official position would be on warranty coverage of the rear diff (and transfer assembly... unless the gear oil they added met the spec) in the event a problem occurs. I certainly hope you don't have to put that 3rd party warranty to the test. I suspect your dealer will point you to the BG warranty in that event.

I note that in your case, I think you would be on Plan 2 assuming you had the first service prior to 15k miles with VTM-4 fluid, $2000 is the limit of the coverage... which won't even cover half the parts cost to replace the rear diff.

If I understand correctly, the 33k mile service was your 2nd rear diff service (since the first callout is the OCI just prior to 15k miles). So this 60k mile service should be your 3rd rear diff service. So was the first rear diff service prior to 15k miles and VTM-4 fluid was used?

[RNG]

SpeedLever -

First service on the rear-diff was done at 26k miles back in 2009. This is interesting because if I'm not mistaken my RL was still under the Honda warranty at that time. Looking at the BG warranty document it appears(to me) that the rear-diff falls under "PLAN 1" since the initial service was performed between 0-36k miles.

Since my RL now has 56k miles on it, within 30k of the last service, having them use BG in the rear-diff keeps it under BG's warranty(Plan 1 w/$4000.00 limit).

Having them service the transfer case w/BG @ 56k(between 36k-75k) brings it under BG Plan 2 but only after 500 miles. I guess this covers BG in the event your having problems before the service, sort of like a "grace" period for them.

If you notice in "Plan 2" it clearly states to be serviced by a "professional Technician" as well as a little further down in the document.

The only thing that irks me at this point is that I'm tied to the honda service dept at this point to keep the extended BG warranty in force. I'm not too concerned about the transfer case but I believe it would be difficult to flush the BG stuff completely from the rear-diff. The upside, (if there is one) is that BG warranty's the rear-diff in the event of a failure. But then we don't know they'll respond if I have a problem.

This has been an interesting discussion. I'll be sure to report back periodically with how it's performing. I appreciate the comments from all those who chimed in.

Gotta jump on those brake pads this morning. Garage floor is gonna be cold. Ya'll take care.

Wishing all of you a Happy Thanksgiving, a Merry Christmas, and a safe and prosperous New Year.

Best Regards to All.

Richard