Vote em out!

[MoosePond]

Originally Posted by B43

"Management" still controls the purse strings, and it's not the GOP way to splurge on Education, now is it? Repubs love to cut the Education budget. That way they can cut more teacher jobs, load up the classrooms, and hit those pesky unions where it hurts.

So, tell me again that there's no "exploitation of the worker?" Without any opposition, "management" will exploit as far as they can get away with. It's called Capitalism. Just watch all those laws mysteriously disappear from the books.

But what does the old fart GOP care anyway. He's already out of the workforce.

And Democrats/Liberals/Progressives just love to throw buckets and buckets of money at Education - at over $500 billion per year more than any other country. So, why are so many of our children functionally illiterate or falling behind the children of other major nations in critical areas like math and science? Yes, education is an important component of our future, but putting states and municipalities back in charge and taking the federal government out of the equation is the best and most cost-effective way of guaranteeing that our children get the first class education that we're already paying for.

[B43]

I find it comical that all you Rightwingers complain about is the govt taking away your rights and that everyone should be carrying guns just to protect themselves from the evil overpowering big govt, yet you sit there and defend the govt while they try to take more power away from hard working people.

It's just amazing.

Big corporations = Big govt = Big politician paychecks. If you don't think they're trying to get the upper hand, think again.

(It's not really that amazing. The pawns will believe anything if they think it'll help win an election for their team. Logic doesn't have a part in it.)

[WNY PAT]

http://www.highered.nysed.gov/tcert/...edmasters.html

Here's an even better link, Moose. According to her it's been a requirement for many years in NYS.

[25 Year Honda Owner]

Originally Posted by MoosePond

And Democrats/Liberals/Progressives just love to throw buckets and buckets of money at Education - at over $500 billion per year more than any other country. So, why are so many of our children functionally illiterate or falling behind the children of other major nations in critical areas like math and science? Yes, education is an important component of our future, but putting states and municipalities back in charge and taking the federal government out of the equation is the best and most cost-effective way of guaranteeing that our children get the first class education that we're already paying for.

Professionals should not be unionized. Unions should be for skilled trades and construction workers. Assembly workers maybe, but not to the extent of the UAW.

[MoosePond]

Originally Posted by WNY PAT

Well then I guess your "neighbors" are lying. From NYS Office if Teaching Initiatives:

I suppose that it's possible that they only have "provisional" certificates as they're all quite young (well under 30) but I know from discussions that I've had with them that none of them yet has a masters, although one of them is working on his.

[MoosePond]

Originally Posted by B43

I find it comical that all you Rightwingers complain about is the govt taking away your rights and that everyone should be carrying guns just to protect themselves from the evil overpowering big govt, yet you sit there and defend the govt while they try to take more power away from hard working people.

It's just amazing.

Big unions = Big govt = Big politician paychecks. If you don't think they're trying to get the upper hand, think again.

(It's not really that amazing. The pawns will believe anything if they think it'll help win an election for their team. Logic doesn't have a part in it.)

corrected your equation

And exactly how do you equate right to work laws with taking "more power away from hard working people"? No one is denying them the right to join a union or to contribute their hard-earned wages to supporting their chosen union. What right to work laws do accomplish is restore power to those who choose not to join a union. Forcing someone to join anything is about as un-American as I can imagine. What if the powers that be decided that it would be in the best interests of all Americans if we were forced to join a certain health club, or religious organization, or fraternal organization?

[WNY PAT]

Moose - so then anyone with more than 2-3 years teaching experience has a masters degree then, correct? So anyone who "is" a teacher (for a career) must have a masters. Don't want to argue or have this be contentious, but for the education level teachers have ( a masters degree here in NYS) I don't think compensation packages are so out if line. That's my opinion anyway...

[cdepuydt]

Originally Posted by B43

But we believe the quote is fiction, and instead have an alternative explanation.

There it is in a nutshell. They "believe" the quote is fiction. They have not 1 shred of solid proof to back up their belief that the quote was fiction. None. Squat. Zero. Nada.

So, after all the gyrations you went through, all the cutting and pasting, and all the hoops you jumped through...you're back to exactly the same place you started. You cannot prove that Shanker did not say that. A lot of wasted energy, if you ask me.

Doesn't change the fact that a newspaper reported that he said it. Again, I don't see anywhere where Shanker ever denied saying it. Nowhere. Not one place did he ever...in spoken or written word...did he ever deny saying it. Maybe there's a plausible explaination for that....hmmm...let's think about that for a moment...OK, yeah, I know....maybe he actually said it!

Anyway, like I said above, it doesn't change the fact that teachers think so much of the students that they can "sick out", not show up for work, and go and protest. If it was really about the kids, they'd keep their opinions to themselves, go and do what they get paid for...you know, their jobs...and then after the school day, or during the weekend....they could go and protest...not during the school day.

They did the exact same thing here in WI. The teachers union called for a sick-out so the teachers could go downtown and protest...in direct violation of their contracts...for 4 days.

IMHO every single one of the teachers that walked off the job should have gotten a pink slip at the end of the school year. Hell, we all know the real UE rate is around %16...there's gotta be a lot of teachers looking for work. They could have filled all those positions in no time.

[cdepuydt]

Originally Posted by MoosePond

Forcing someone to join anything is about as un-American as I can imagine. What if the powers that be decided that it would be in the best interests of all Americans if we were forced to join a certain health club, or religious organization, or fraternal organization?

...or be forced to buy health insurance! Yeah, what kind of country would this be...!?!? I mean...oh, right...never mind.

[MoosePond]

Originally Posted by cdepuydt

IMHO every single one of the teachers that walked off the job should have gotten a pink slip at the end of the school year. Hell, we all know the real UE rate is around %16...there's gotta be a lot of teachers looking for work. They could have filled all those positions in no time.

Therin lies one of my biggest problems with labor unions for public employees. If the UAW goes on strike or stages a sickout the worst that happens is that some cars don't get built. If it's cops or firemen, the public for whom they work is at risk. If it's teachers, kids don't get educated and their parents have to scramble. Public sector employees should not have the option of not performing the duties for which the taxpayers have hired them. They should be fairly compensated in line with the requirements of the jobs they perform on behalf of taxpayers.