9th Generation Civic (2012+)

[csimo]

Originally Posted by csimo

I've gotta give some insight on what I'm going to call the Civic fiasco. The new design will come out as a 2012 model, but is over a year late already. Why?

The Civic redesign project was started under the administration of Takeo Fukui. The design was essentially completed when Fukui retired. From what I saw of the project it looked good, very good. The car was slightly larger than the current Civic.

Takanobu Ito replaced Fukui. Shortly after taking power Ito took exception to the Civic redesign. He essentially scrapped the whole project and decided the new Civic should be smaller and lighter than the current model.

Cars don't get designed and engineered overnight. The new Civic was put on a very fast track. The result is the car that will be released next year.

I think most will agree that Honda has lagged the rest of the industry in nearly every category. In my opinion this new Civic was thrown together under a very tight schedule. That usually results in problems, and I suspect the new Civic will have more than most expect from Honda.

So the new Civic is not innovative, and behind the competition before the first one is built.

I'm not trying to blow my own horn, but I knew about the Civic problems long before it reached the market. I posted the above in 2010.

The good news is that Honda learned a lesson from what I called the "Civic fiasco" and has been working hard to fix the problems. Unfortunately they're still confined to the current generation product which is inferior to what the designers and engineers wanted to do with the Civic (that Ito scuttled).

In the mean time the competition has gotten MUCH better. Better powertrains, better suspensions, and much more. Other than Honda's reputation there's little reason to consider the Civic.

[k757]

csimo-
I, and many others, listen intently to your projections/insights/predictions.

THANKS!

[hofffam]

Originally Posted by csimo

I'm not trying to blow my own horn, but I knew about the Civic problems long before it reached the market. I posted the above in 2010.

The good news is that Honda learned a lesson from what I called the "Civic fiasco" and has been working hard to fix the problems. Unfortunately they're still confined to the current generation product which is inferior to what the designers and engineers wanted to do with the Civic (that Ito scuttled).

In the mean time the competition has gotten MUCH better. Better powertrains, better suspensions, and much more. Other than Honda's reputation there's little reason to consider the Civic.

The early reviews of the 2013 Civic are very solid. The powertrain is unchanged, but everything else is better.

The new Accord is getting VERY good reviews. CR says the 4 cylinder CVT can get 40 MPG on the highway. Very impressive.

Can anyone explain why the Fit is so thirsty? It seems Honda could squeeze the Accord 4 cylinder into the Fit, change the gear ratios, and produce a pocket rocket with 45 MPG.

[DopplerDon]

Originally Posted by csimo

I'm not trying to blow my own horn, but I knew about the Civic problems long before it reached the market. I posted the above in 2010.

The good news is that Honda learned a lesson from what I called the "Civic fiasco" and has been working hard to fix the problems. Unfortunately they're still confined to the current generation product which is inferior to what the designers and engineers wanted to do with the Civic (that Ito scuttled).

In the mean time the competition has gotten MUCH better. Better powertrains, better suspensions, and much more. Other than Honda's reputation there's little reason to consider the Civic.

You should "blow your horn"! What you provide is very good insight as to what is going on. I am hoping that you can post some more positive information rearding your assesments of the next gen RL. I just have to ask.... any new info, or changed opionion of what we can expect?? (I know you would have already commented, but I do have to ask)

[IanRTL]

Originally Posted by hofffam

The early reviews of the 2013 Civic are very solid. The powertrain is unchanged, but everything else is better.

The new Accord is getting VERY good reviews. CR says the 4 cylinder CVT can get 40 MPG on the highway. Very impressive.

Can anyone explain why the Fit is so thirsty? It seems Honda could squeeze the Accord 4 cylinder into the Fit, change the gear ratios, and produce a pocket rocket with 45 MPG.

Size-wise, the 2.4 isn't all that much larger than the 1.5. It would be fun to see a 185hp Fit! Unfortunately, I'm sure everything else from the transmission, axles, brakes and suspension would all need to be upgraded, too. The Fit is such a solid vehicle with a good chassis that it would probably blow a Mini out of the water with the 2.4 EarthDreams and a solid tranny. It could be called the Fit Si. Too bad Honda got out of the "sporty" side of automobiles with the death of the S2000. The Civic Si is always middle of the road in comparison tests with similar vehicles. The Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ, Focus ST, Subaru WRX and Golf GTI are better - just to name a few.

[k757]

Originally Posted by IanRTL

Size-wise, the 2.4 isn't all that much larger than the 1.5. It would be fun to see a 185hp Fit! Unfortunately, I'm sure everything else from the transmission, axles, brakes and suspension would all need to be upgraded, too. The Fit is such a solid vehicle with a good chassis that it would probably blow a Mini out of the water with the 2.4 EarthDreams and a solid tranny. It could be called the Fit Si. Too bad Honda got out of the "sporty" side of automobiles with the death of the S2000. The Civic Si is always middle of the road in comparison tests with similar vehicles. The Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ, Focus ST, Subaru WRX and Golf GTI are better - just to name a few.

just as easy would be the 2.0 8thGen Si engine and all of the 140hp, 1.8L LX engines. why not? cause lately Honda takes their time to compete in the market.

A couple of Fits that I "race" with around the Tail of the Dragon and north GA mtns can compete with the WRX. Their upgraded handling is that good and not much has been done to the engines. Sure, on the long uphills, they fall behind, but are FAR better than most people would expect.

[IanRTL]

Originally Posted by k757

just as easy would be the 2.0 8thGen Si engine and all of the 140hp, 1.8L LX engines. why not? cause lately Honda takes their time to compete in the market.

A couple of Fits that I "race" with around the Tail of the Dragon and north GA mtns can compete with the WRX. Their upgraded handling is that good and not much has been done to the engines. Sure, on the long uphills, they fall behind, but are FAR better than most people would expect.

Agreed. The Fit is remarkably tight and solid. It has great steering feel and is very communicative. What it's lacking is power. I still can't believe that Honda doesn't have a turbocharged engine in its lineup. So many other manufacturers are getting huge power numbers and efficiency, to boot, but Honda just doesn't keep up. They tried and basically failed with the RDX 2.3 liter turbo and just gave it up. If Hyundai can get 200hp out of a 1.6 liter DI engine, Honda certainly could get at least 180 from the 1.5.

[chiph]

Originally Posted by csimo

I'm not trying to blow my own horn, but I knew about the Civic problems long before it reached the market. I posted the above in 2010.

I just leased a 2012 Civic (got a good deal ... wonder why? and everything the critics have been saying about it is correct.

The interior looks like something that Hyundai did in the 2000's. It came with a set of Firestone Affinity tires which are now stacked in the garage, being replaced with Michelin Defenders (that don't squirm in the corners). The 1.8 liter sounds coarse and if the A/C is on and you're under 3500 rpm, there is a lack of power.

About the only things I really like are the fuel economy and the iPod/iMid integration.

Chip H.

[hofffam]

Originally Posted by IanRTL

Size-wise, the 2.4 isn't all that much larger than the 1.5. It would be fun to see a 185hp Fit! Unfortunately, I'm sure everything else from the transmission, axles, brakes and suspension would all need to be upgraded, too. The Fit is such a solid vehicle with a good chassis that it would probably blow a Mini out of the water with the 2.4 EarthDreams and a solid tranny. It could be called the Fit Si. Too bad Honda got out of the "sporty" side of automobiles with the death of the S2000. The Civic Si is always middle of the road in comparison tests with similar vehicles. The Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ, Focus ST, Subaru WRX and Golf GTI are better - just to name a few.

Yeah I know the 2.4 wouldn't be a drop in replacement for Honda. But the 2.4, in the 3400 lb Accord gets better mileage than the Fit with a 1.5. That Accord powertrain, with a gearing adjustment would make the Fit a rocket WITH better mileage.

The 1.5 must be a thirsty engine.

[Nutbread]

Originally Posted by csimo

I'm not trying to blow my own horn, but I knew about the Civic problems long before it reached the market. I posted the above in 2010.

The good news is that Honda learned a lesson from what I called the "Civic fiasco" and has been working hard to fix the problems. Unfortunately they're still confined to the current generation product which is inferior to what the designers and engineers wanted to do with the Civic (that Ito scuttled).

In the mean time the competition has gotten MUCH better. Better powertrains, better suspensions, and much more. Other than Honda's reputation there's little reason to consider the Civic.

Toot away man. There is nothing in this Automotive News article from yesterday that you didn't tell us about more than two years ago.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...-to-redo-civic