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Catastrophic fail today

22K views 142 replies 40 participants last post by  mtb 
#1 ·
While driving down the interstate today, I noticed my temp gauge maxed out. When I pulled off and looked under the truck, there was coolant and transmission fluid everywhere. I had her towed to the nearest dealership, and it turns out my radiator failed. I had no idea the transmission fluid ran through the radiator, but it's possible after a flush, it might be OK. Funny thing is, I'm at 99933 miles, and my extended warranty is up at 100k. The warranty company wants to send a rep to check it out before they do any work, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed he doesn't find a reason to deny a claim. This is my first, outta of 5, Hondas that have had a major issue. Is this a known problem that if the radiator fails the transmission my be affected?
 
#2 · (Edited)
This is a known issue. Just last week, I replaced my radiator out of preventative maintenance. The transmission cooler/engine coolant line corrodes due to dissimilar metals, and the steel washer forcibly pulls the fitting out of the threads, causing this failure.

Whether or not your transmission has been damaged, it really depends on how much coolant is inside of the transmission. Ethylene glycol found in engine coolant creates a hydrophobic barrier around the bearings in the transmission which effectively prevents the bearings from being properly lubricated. Your best bet is a transmission rebuild, or better yet, complete replacement.

You'll find plenty of other posts regarding this exact issue on these forums. Just do a quick search.

Have your radiator replaced with a Koyo radiator, or at least something not the same as OEM. As far as I know, Honda hasn't modified the design of the fitting since 2006. Something with brass fittings would be ideal. Also, please file a complaint with the NHTSA, stating your current mileage and be sure to note how this could be a potential safety issue.

When you have some down time, I strongly advise writing Honda (good old snail mail) a letter that includes documentation of your failure, total repair cost, and photos. Best case scenario, Honda reimburses you the cost of repair. Send three letters to the addresses below (originally posted by csimo).

Honda Automobile Customer Service
1919 Torrance Boulevard
Mail Stop: 500 - 2N - 7A
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

Honda North America, Inc.
ATTN: Tetsuo Iwamura
700 Van Ness Av.
Torrance, CA 90501

Honda R&D Americas, Inc.
21001 State Route 739
Raymond, OH 43067-9705


All that being said, you should really pursue your warranty. This is NOT going to be a cheap fix (sorry). Even once your radiator has been replaced and transmission flushed, there is a good chance your transmission will eventually fail due to the reasons I discussed above. Pursue transmission replacement or have it rebuilt.

Make sure you find all available service records including oil changes and routine maintenance. Most extended warranty companies will ask you to produce proof that you have not neglected your vehicle.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, I'll be writing letters as soon as I get the estimate. Maybe I can work with the dealership to get a aftermarket radiator.
 
#4 ·
Known problem with the tranny cooler fittings. Several members have unfortunately experienced the strawberry milkshake. I also replaced my radiator this past July as preventative maintenance. This issue isn't just limited to Honda. If I were you, I would absolutely fight for a transmission replacement. No matter what, the transmission's life has now been greatly diminished. Use that warranty for everything you can. If they come back and say they aren't going to replace the tranny, fight as high up as necessary until they do. This is a huge problem that is caused by honda's misuse of proper materials. That steel Belleville washer will rust, expand and cause the fitting to fail. It's not a matter of if, but when. It's a wart on an otherwise incredibly well-engineered vehicle.


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#5 ·
It probably doesn't help living in New England with all the salt on the road. I deal with corrosion everyday at work, and dis-similar metals are the root of most failures I see on Coast Guard Cutters. They already lead on I might need a rebuild so I'll definitely push for it, Thanks for all the feedback.
 
#6 ·
Known problem as everyone says. Preventative maintenance ie replacing radiator before it fails is the only solution.

Now don't forget to drain and refill the tranny at least three times. You need to get all the coolant out of it otherwise you're looking at a new tranny to.
 
#7 ·
Given your description of the failure, I would have no confidence that your transmission can be saved. Sure, they can flush it, and it may seem ok for a short while. But as stated above, I'll bet the tranny life has been severely impacted.

Furthermore, I would have concerns about the heads if the engine ran as hot as you indicated.
 
#8 ·
Sorry to hear about your truck, the salt in MA does a good job at corroding the crap out of vehicles. I replaced my radiator the first month I had my truck due to corroded washers.

Suggestion: New Radiator (aftermarket), 4X Drain and Fill, and Get a extended aftermarket warranty for after 100K. Sorry to say but it will never be the same. Even with a rebuilt tranny, the heads may have warped or even some micro cracks in the block, which will expand overtime.

Or Fix it and trade it. There should be a redesigned 2014 RL I've heard in late 2013

Good luck!!!
 
#10 ·
I'd get it repaired and trade it for a 2013 asap. I'm not convinced there will be a 'new' Ridgeline, my gut tells me Honda has decided to concentrate on other vehicles and get out of the truck market.
 
#13 ·
So, I'm gathering all RL's will experience this at some point?

I guess it's something I need to have the service department keep a eye on, especially as I get closer to 100k miles? I'm going to be a real jerk about it come 119k as my warranty is done at 120k.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Personally, I plan to have the radiator replaced when we do the timing belt. The Pilot is 7+ years old with 90k miles. It will be due a timing belt sometime in the next couple of years.

This is an issue that affects other makes besides Honda.

Edit: depending on environmental conditions where your vehicle lives, replacement at the TB change may be too late. Consider how many miles you drive too. If only a few miles/year, you may need to change sooner than the TB is due.
 
#15 ·
If this is pretty much a guaranteed gotcha, could we put a Sticky on this sub-forum w/ one entry showing the pic(s) of the problem area and a decent blurb that those of us not car savvy can walk into the service department with and not sound foolish? I'm sure there are others like me that are much more at home w/ a PC or spinning a circular saw but lost when it comes to wrenching.
 
#19 ·
I really want to believe that there will be a new Ridgleine. Even if a 2014 Ridgeline exist on the drawing board or even in testing somewhere, it may or may not make it to the production line. The automobile business is very complicated and dynamic.

Toyota built a $1.3-Billion manufacturing plant 50-miles from here in 2007 and then closed it just before it produced a single Prius. It sat idle for years before it was announced that it would open to build Highlanders, then sat idle for another year before it finally opened and started building Corollas.

I don't consider the Ridgeline to be confirmed until a pre-production Ridgeline turns up at a car show and Honda commits to tooling up for production and putting them in show rooms.
 
#20 ·
Good news today, my warranty will cover the repairs, even though their Rep took a hundred pics of my truck. I will end have keeping it cause it's paid for, but I'll definitely buy another warranty. I think the transmission is shot anyway because it wouldn't even go into gear anymore. I have a bad feeling it's going to be in the shop a while.
 
#23 ·
Good! they should take of it. As other member mentioned, make sure they take out all the tranny fluid out either by 4 drains and fills or a safe method while disconnecting the lines and adding fluid while old fluid comes out, they will be able to see the fluid color coming out while new one goes in. Chances are, not much went inside the tranny, but just to have a trouble free shifting tranny in the future, all the fluid has to come out completely. And sure demand aftermarket radiator with brass or SS fittings and washers, if you live in a salty area or this issue will happen again if they give you a Honda Radiator.
 
#24 ·
Based on that MDX video posted earlier, it appears the failure occurs inside the connection. So the failure could occur and not even be visible externally.

In this instance, make sure the heads aren't warped from overheating. You will most likely need a rebuilt tranny too. I doubt flushing the fluid will adequately repair the damage.

What are they planning to do for the repair?
 
#26 ·
It doesn't take much movement, a millimeter or two. The higher pressure transmission fluid would blow right past the o ring and fill up radiator.
 
#25 ·
They told me first they'll replace the radiator, but that won't be in until Monday.Then they'll assess the transmission. My best bet is to buy a extended warranty, just in case.
 
#31 ·
I know i've mentioned this in the "big thread" but from some of the responses i've seen here it indicates that even some of the long time members didn't catch my post yet.

There is a way to permanently stop the risk of encountering a SMOD!

Let me take a moment to explain how to prevent the Strawberry Milkshake Of Death.

Who could do this:
Anyone, who does not regularly drive in EXTREMELY cold winter conditions.

(Sorry Canadians! You can do it, but letting your car idle to warm up will not help the ATF warm up if you perform a bypass. However, you can perform a parked warm up of the ATF by slipping it into drive with the brakes on for a while.)

The radiator Pass-through for the ATF line is intended primarily to heat up the ATF to optimal temperature more quickly. It does provide some cooling, but that is not the primary purpose otherwise there would not be a dedicated ATF cooler.

The ATF flow route:

ATF fluid flows from:
Transmission > Radiator > ATF cooler > Transmission

Removing the ATF loop through the radiator does not prevent cooling of the ATF. Note though that many stock ATF coolers have a thermostat so that unless the ATF is above the Optimal temp, it is simply bypassed.

The Fix aka Bypassing the radiator:
While this will not prevent the radiator from failing, it WILL prevent the transmission from being destroyed when it does fail!

All you need to do is change the flow route by moving the ATF lines. If you tow often, i do however recommend adding an auxillary ATF cooler (cheap universal part at any auto-parts store). You may also need longer ATF tubing.

Simply take the ATF line from the trans, and plug it directly into the ATF cooler. Then loop the extra tube on the radiator back into the radiator.

The flow will go from above to this
Transmission > (Aux ATF cooler) > ATF Cooler > Transmission

Radiator > Radiator

Notice that you now have 2 distinct loops, and the ATF fluid never enters the radiator. This way there will NEVER be a chance for engine coolant and ATF to mix.

Xterra, Frontier and many other vehicle owners who have the same radiator/ATF cooler design have been doing this for years with no problems resulting from it.

Radiators can and will still need replaced, but you won't have to worry about your ($5,000)transmission dying because of a ($200)radiator failure.
Without an external or aux T cooler, would this be just as simple as remove both hoses lines connected to the radiator, get an aluminum tube long enough to clamp each of the hoses ( in and out lines of the radiator) bypassing the cooler. Then maybe seal the fittings although it may not be necessary because there is no cooling fluid running through it?
 
#29 · (Edited)
Tribble, while that may be a viable fix, it cannot be implemented until the factory/extended warranty period has expired. Unless you wish to risk loss of warranty coverage.

So it's somewhat of a catch-22. In addition, some (many?) will be reluctant to deviate from the original design, regardless how poorly implemented it may be.
 
#32 ·
I can't even get my hand down from the top to take a picture of the driver side fitting. So maybe if you remove the splash panel you can get to them from below. I don't see it being a 15 minute job on the RL. Then again, I'm pretty slow when I do maintenance stuff. ;)
 
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