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08 RTL - Accident Insurance, DV and Warranty Questions

4K views 32 replies 13 participants last post by  RustyH 
#1 ·
I'll get right to the point.

08 RTL
38000 miles

My wife and 8 month old son in an intersection accident. Other driver 16 yo trying to beat the light. Other insurance company has accepted liability, wife had right of way. Pictures attached. Airbags did not deploy.

Back in January I went to the local Honda dealership and purchased the 5 yr 100k bumper to bumper genuine honda gold warranty. As we planned to keep the vehicle for another 5 to 7 years.

Repair shop is up to $15K in damages and still not finished inspecting. I don't know yet if the frame was bent. They said if it was they would get a used frame that has been repaired. They did confirm we will need an engine cradle.

As you can see the attached pictures the other driver also had some pretty good damage to his fathers 2008 Lexus 340.

1st Question - This is the second accident for our poor ridgeline. First was a drunk 17 yo driver 55mph impact at stop light from behind. As you can see the ridgeline did it's job on protecting my family (which is why I got the RTL for her). Is there any impact on my Honda direct extended warranty?

I'm concerned with getting the vehicle repaired and then having an issue. Taking it into Honda, saying XYZ is the issue, and them saying I need to go back to the insurance company or the repair shop to handle. IE they won't fix because it's an expensive part. I keep thinking of something like, the vehicle had a noise, AC issue, etc. I plan to call Honda and ask the extended warranty department if there are any issues with a repaired vehicle per the terms of the contract. But thought I'd post here first. Obviously if the extended warranty is useless I'll seek to ask the insurance company to reimbursement me.

2nd Question - I was not successful in seeking a DV claim for the 1st accident. Well now we have a 2nd accident on the truck. This one major compared to the 1st. So if we get it repaired, and all is perfect, and we can use the Honda extended, and if it drives and feels like it is back to normal great. But 9 times out of 10 I read a repair like this that the vehicle is never the same. 1st I'm hoping they total it which would make the numbers easy. If they don't and insist on repair I'm thinking about trading it in. So we get back to the DV issue. If I walk onto a used or new car lot, select a vehicle and say I want to trade the RTL in I would think the insurance company would have to make us whole.

Current 08 RTL's with 40K used in the area are selling for $23 to $24K. KBB shows value in GOOD condition to be $20K. I'm concerned with getting offered way low given the accident. We owe the bank $10K. So to make us whole one would think we need to get the $20K KBB value which allows the dealer to mark up and sell for $23-24K as they are.

Any thoughts or feedback on your experience or this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone !
 

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#2 ·
Sorry about your accident - the Ridgeline is Unibody, not a truck on frame so there is not frame underneath the truck - so they cannot replace the frame - I would find another bodyshop that understands Honda's unibody truck design - It is not like a Silverado or F150.

I would suggest it is time for the insurance to declare it a total loss.

There are pictures from the St. Louis Ridgeline meet that show a cut away view of a Ridgeline. Make sure your agent see them. It looks like a frame but it is all one piece of water formed metal.

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228821&postcount=35

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=228884&postcount=49
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
I thought the RL was considered a hybrid ladder frame unibody construction.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Ridgeline

But that may not change the ability to repair your frame damage.

It is a "hybrid" ladder frame / Unit Body design. However, the manner in which they are attached will preclude any frame straightening. Looking at the damage, it looks as though the front clip will need to be replaced.
 
#6 ·
I'm surprised the air bags didn't deploy in that accident.
 
#9 ·
The sensors read the rate of deceleration to command the airbags to deploy.

If you run into a bridge abutment and stop suddenly, they'll go off. If you run into something soft & squishy and stop gradually, they may not.

Recall that they are a supplemental restraint system - they're there to help save you when the seatbelts won't be enough.

Chip H.
 
#13 ·
Chip is 100% correct.
Modern airbags are not as quick to go off as they were ten years ago.
They deploy based purely on inertia. A sudden jolting stop will sent them off every time. An impact that "gives" they will not go off.
I actually have an airbag module I should take a picture of and post on here for you all to see.
 
#11 ·
Looks like a corner to corner impact crash, and the ridge took worst of it, maybe 9 inches away towards the center it would have been a different story.

I hope they total it to get a good replacement.

Good luck, and I hope our wife and kid were safe without major injuries.
 
#12 ·
The ridgeline is in fact a uni-body, the ladder frame in the picture on page one is welded into the body. There is however a engine cradle also known as a bub frame that is bolted to the bottom side of the body.
Looking at the pictures that could well be bent.

Based on what I am seeing the damage to your ridge' looks worse than it is.
Dont misunderstand me, its a pretty significant hit, but I have seen and fixed much worse.
 
#14 ·
GVNDUDE,
I have been doing collision repair for over fifteen years. Let me know if you need any thing through the repair process I would be more than glad to help.
Post lots of pics too.
 
#15 ·
Everyone

Thank you for your feedback. All your replies help me learning and assessing what I'm dealing with here.

I feel I have a little bit more knowledge on the frame and being able to discuss with the repair shop. We were surprised also the air bags didn't deploy, but we must be thinking of the old days. As the repair shop wasn't surprised. They said the computer processes a lot of data to determine if the air bags should fire, and in this case they didn't. The ridgeline did it's job it protected my family. We'd buy another in a heart beat !

My plans are to call the repair shop today and get copies of the digital photos of the front end disassembled and post so you can review.

We hope they total it also, but as we all know when it comes to repair and insurance it's a process. One I'm hoping will play out today and tomorrow.

Thanks again, more to come.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Glad to hear all were safe. Other ROC members know that the point of impact shown in the pics is one of the strongest points of the RL.
Yes you could have some issues with the warranty, but limited to the area of damage and repairs.
I would get with your own insurance company about DV. Get them to fight the other company for the DV check or you are going to get it from them. And of course a lawyer can help.
 
#17 ·
Update: 08 RTL - Accident Insurance, DV and Warranty Questions

Just got the PDF estimate for the repairs. Looks like they do list repair to the uniframe.

Estimate and photos attached.

Please provide me as much feedback as possible.

Just got off phone with Honda Care asking about the extended warranty. They said so long as the vehicle is repaired with genuine Honda parts the warranty will be ok. But if they have to do frame repair that the warranty is null and void. They of course would refund the remaining time and amount, but no warranty.

It looks like the body shop is doing frame work. Waiting for a call back from them now. Thus is looks like the extended warranty is null.

So any feedback you can provide me to make the argument with the insurance company to write this vehicle off would be appreciated.

Also if I am forced to repair, any feedback that I can use to provide the repair shop would be appreciated to ensure it is inspected and repaired correctly.

I was thinking about paying for a 2nd opinion, thoughts?

I can only upload 6 photos, so I'll post again with the others. Other posts will have PDF of estimate and other photos.

Thanks again everyone
 

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#18 ·
Repair Estimate: 08 RTL - Accident Insurance, DV and Warranty Questions

Here is the repair estimate.
 

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#20 ·
Given the other info in the thread about the welded unibody/ladder frame construction, how can the frame be straightened?

I get the impressions that some are saying a bent frame is a total loss. Not true? Or is it the engine cradle bolted to the frame that needs to be straightened/replaced?
 
#21 ·
I have seen insurance companies come in after a hurricane ( I was in the Keys thirty-five years) and total cars if they just saw that the saltwater reached the computer. I know this is a far different case, but my point is that it seems to me that the damage is at a point that a reasonable insurance company should just consider the vehicle totaled. Just the fact that you are being removed from the manufacturer's protective umbrella does it for me. I'd keep fighting, with a lawyer if necessary. The stakes are certainly high enough. I'm in your area about three years now, and I'm not as familiar with the local body shops as I'd like. I'd at least get another opinion. I feel for your predicament and I think that vehicle needs to be totaled so that you can move on with a fresh start. Keep fighting and don't let them plow you under.
 
#24 ·
Straightening the unibody is quite simple.
Clamp the pinch welds to the frame machine to the frame and use hydraulic rams to pull the frame into spec.
Frame part that are BENT can easily be repaired. Frame parts that are KINKED need to be replaced.
The engine cradle is NOT a part of the unibody and due to its construction for the most part can not be repaired. Unibody frame pulls are incredibly common and done correctly will not compromise the structural integrity of the vehicle.

A vehicle is considered a total loss if the cost to correctly and safely repair the vehicle meets or exceeds a percentage ( usually 60% ) its replacement value.
A flooded car will total easily due to water damage to the computers and wiring.

Warranty. Just about every shop will offer you some sort of warranty on the repair. Most will be life time. My shop is life time on all repairs, and paint. The manufacturer will carry a warranty on the parts.

Aftermarket parts.
I saw on the estimate they wrote for all OEM parts. That is great. After market ( or crash parts ) parts might initially look like OE parts but can often be far from it. Its been my experience that aftermarket parts fit can range from pretty good to simply god awful. After market parts like bumper beams should be avoided. I saw a demonstration once where a guy took a wizz-wheel to an OEM bumper beam and the wizz wheel struggled to cut the beam. Then he took the equivalent after market bean and cut it with the same wizz wheel and it cut through like a hot knife through warm butter.
Clearly not the same quality.
 
#25 ·
Excellent info Kevin. Thanks for that.
 
#28 ·
Car Fax is B.S.

Some years back we did $12,000.00 in repairs on a car. Had the engine out and every thing.
It had two upper rails replaced and one lower.
Three months after the car was completed and delivered ( it looked GREAT by the way ) we looked at Carfax and the car had a clean report.

Plus customers really cant control weather or not it totals.

A repair done correctly, will look identical to prior to the accident and will perform the same way if ever in another collision.
 
#33 · (Edited)
DV is not really a percentage. If your truck was worth $20K before the accident and after complete repairs, to your satisfaction, it is now worth $15K, your DV is $5K. Plain and simple. If the insurance is offering you four grand, get some actual information. Ask the dealership for a trade-in/purchase estimate for your truck, after all the repairs have been ade, then get them to issue another estimate for your truck if the accident had not happened. You may need up to three comparison estimates.

The insurance Company is going to try and force you to take their lowball offer by saying if you don't accept it, they won't pay you anything after repairs are done. Also any litigation, especially if you have to get a lawyer, could eat up to 40-45% of your DV settlement. Plus it cold take a couple of years before you see any money.

It's up to you and how you feel about your loss of value. If you plan on selling the truck right after its repaired, you should fight for every penny. If you plan on keeping he truck until it falls apart, make a counter offer for $7K and settle for $5,500.

My comments are based on personal experience. Check the posts about my accident.

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24736

Good luck.
 
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