Rodent damage to wiring

davidiaz · Mar 28, 2011

My truck just got the check engine and VTM4 light at the same time; the service advisor on the dealer was quick to point the problem to a knock sensor wire that gets chewed by rodents so I asked him if it was a common problem and he said that he has seen a few and the reason was because the knock insulation harness wire was made of soy base.
They did the diagnostic and confirmed that the wire was at fault and wanted to charge 450+ to repair.

I did a quick on line search and saw a few post for Accords and Odysseys but nothing for ridgelines.
Has anyone had the same problem?

I am trying to repair it myself since I have a few tools and it seemed not too challenging on the other cars, but I have to admit that it is turning more difficult than I thought, it is practically impossible to pull the harness without removing the intake manifold

Any suggestions?

davidiaz · Mar 28, 2011

just wanted to add a picture of the chewed sensor wire and the new one with rat deterrent insulation

mevers · Mar 28, 2011

I wonder if the truck were under warranty, would something like that be covered?

Too bad about what you've had to go through on that. Making anything about the vehicle appealing to rodents doesn't seem like a wise thing to do.

dk miller · Mar 28, 2011

$450 ? does it require extensive disassembly to get to it?

larryr · Mar 28, 2011

My friends 2008 Honda Fit had the exact same wire eaten by a mouse - we caught the mouse in the glove box with a mouse trap. It is not a warranty fix, it is an act of nature not covered. The dealer fixed it for the cost of the parts as good will (and they were curious as to what did that). We also caught 4 mice in the garage where the Fit spends the night. The mice also ate most of her Honda manuals or used them as the bathroom, in the glove box. We think they came in the cracked window that is left open to air the car.

davidiaz · Mar 31, 2011

Hi There, thanks for the comments
I did replace the harness wire and as I thought, it demanded a few hours and lots of patience.
First after the obvious battery disconnect, I tried to gain access from the sides under the intake manifold but it was impossible, then I tried removing the power steering pump which actually allowed me to see one end of the harness but it was still too difficult to even remove that end.

I decided to remove the top cover of the intake manifold, I am not sure the name of the part, but you can see in the picture. Once I took that piece I was able to see the other end of the harness, I got greedy because I didn’t want to mess with the injectors rail and connections and decided to remove the harness end connector with pliers and a flat screw driver and after a gentle touch I ended up breaking the knock sensor from its base.

After that major set back I really needed to gain access under the intake manifold pipes to use a long socket or wrench to remove the sensor. I removed the injectors rail using an 8 mm socket removing a couple of hidden screws, then I tried removing those 2 manifolds but mysteriously only the one closer to the end of the truck got loose and I was able to pull it out. That was enough to fit a long 24 mm socket using a universal joint to set the knock sensor loose.

Once I got it out I noticed that there was no way to remove the end harness from the sensor without holding it in your own hands, the fitting is very thigh and the sensor is made out of thin plastic; that explains why it broke.

I use reverse method to install everything back making sure that all the cables and hoses that I previously remove were in place and it all worked out ok. The check engine light and VTM-4 light were gone

Tools I used were standard 10, 12, 14 short and long sockets, pliers, long 24 mm socket with universal joint, 3/8 extensions, flat screw drivers, masking tape to cover the intake holes while you work, o ring picking tool since I actually dropped one nut from the intake
between the base on the engine heads, vacuum to get the rat nest with the chewed cable and a toque meter to tight the manifold screws back

Total time was close to 5 hours since I was trying to be very careful to not mess up anything and ended up paying more.

dk miller · Mar 31, 2011

Good post David, thanks! That puppy really is a chore to replace. The plastic on that sensor probably gets brittle from exposure to engine heat making it likely to break off when separating the connector. Add some more $ to the repair.

FTM1 · Mar 31, 2011

Well I have told this story before a city rat ate some part of the brake system in my 94 EX Accord some years ago. I dorove the car everyday & at that time would take my nephew to school as well as go to work so the car was moved often. I moved it that mourning everything was normal came back parked went to make afternoon pick up as I was off from work & parking brake ABS lights light up like christmas tree. The brakes felt normal it was just warning lights ON. I drove to school for as but slow untill I was comfortable car would stop. Took it in to Honda dealership the next day they called me back & saiid I had some kind of critter living under my hood. They said chicken bones were under the the hood & something had eaten the wires to part of thre brake system. I knew it was some old rat They said it would cost me aout $400.00 but I was a repeat buyer of cars their & they charged me around $275.00. Another neighboor across the street had something with her eletrical wires in a VW eaten by a rat also. It cost a chunck of money toget repaired.

Ourfarm09 · Mar 31, 2011

Wow, all of that from a rat. No wonder they are called pests. Great posts. Glad you took the time to take pictures along the way. Thanks

Sparkland · Mar 31, 2011

Good work - glad you saved a bunch of money. I doubt I would have even attempted it. Nice right-up.

speedlever · Apr 1, 2011

Excellent write up with the pics... and a really nice lookin' RL you have.

BugRunners · Apr 12, 2011

I currently have the same issue as David reported. I took my Ridgeline into the local dealership and they determined the damage was caused by a rodent.
Estimate for repairs: $608.00 for harness and $191.00 for battery terminal harness, that too was obviously damaged. I called my auto insurance agent, and the insurance Adjuster which recommended I take pictures and fax them the repair quote. The Adjuster also commented that they have had a rash of related claims.
Before reading/educating myself somewhat on the issue, I already authorized the repair; however, it would have been better had I known about suggested rodent deterrent material (if such a thing exists)added in with repair for added peace of mind.

schwejo · Apr 12, 2011

Those dirty rats. Here is the part # from Honda. We actually have this problem at work with all sorts of network fiber and electrical wiring. Thankfully its not a regular occurance but it happens often enough. They seem to like the lubricant in some network fiber. We used to have free range cats at work, but they got rid of them because of the fleas, but now we have rats. A couple years ago I had a rat eat a hole in my plastic 3 in 1 oil can and drink the oil. They do what they can to keep ahead of the problem, but only so much you can do with a 60 acre manufacturing facility from the 1800's.

n8man · Jun 9, 2012

I had the check engine light come on and the culprit is the knock sensor. I ordered a knock sensor and pulled the intake manifold and fuel injector rails to replace the sensor and I discovered the pigtail wire to the sensor was broken. No rodent damage involved that I can tell. I went to several auto repair stores and they don't carry the pigtail.

My next stop was the Honda dealer and I was informed that you CAN'T buy the pigtail, 5-6 inches of wire with connectors on either end. They want you to purchase the entire wiring harness to replace this pigtail, $300+.

Since the wire on the pigtail was broken at the base of the sensor terminal, I cannot repair the wire. My next stop is to scour the junk yards for a replacement pigtail.

Does anyone know if the Ridgeline knock sensor pigtail is used on other hondas? I went to one junk yard today and there were no Ridgelines. I feel like I'll have similar success at other junk yards so I want to hopefully expand my search field.

Or does anyone have an extra pigtail they'd be willing to part with?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nathan
2006 Rigeline

speedlever · Jun 10, 2012

I wonder if the Pilot and Odyssey use the same part number? It will be much easier finding one of those in the junkyard than a RL. Be advised that yards in my area charge $50 minimum... which is still a bargain compared to $300.

OTOH, is part #1 what you need? The knock sensor sub-wire?

The knock sensor itself if part number 8 in the drawing below:

(thanks to Bernardi and College Hills Honda for the above images).

n8man · Jun 10, 2012

Speedlever,

Illustration #001, Part # 30531-RCA-A01, IS the part I need. It appears the picture is from an '08 model and my RL is an '06. It doesn't appear that the part is different. So, is the part available from a dealer? Maybe not my dealer, but yours or an auto repair shop? LMK please.

Nathan

ETA: I just checked the honda website eStore and the part number is the same for both the '06 and '08 models.

speedlever · Jun 10, 2012

Nathan,

Using the part number in the depiction, you can shop for it at any online dealer or even your local dealer. It is pretty inexpensive with a list price of just $6 or so. Not really worth buying online as shipping will cost more than your tax on a non-discounted item. I can not imagine any dealer not being willing to order and/or sell you this part.

If you have any trouble with any of your local dealers, you can always get it online from Bernardi, College Hills Honda, Majestic, H&A, etc. Googling the part number comes up with a ton of choices.

n8man · Jun 10, 2012

Thanks Speed!

I am astounded that the dealer didn't want to sell me the part. If I can't get the part from another dealer in my area I will definitely give Bernardi a call.

speedlever · Jun 10, 2012

There must have been a misunderstanding. Try your dealer again, but this time just get them to check price and availability of the specific part number.

FL_Ridge · Dec 11, 2013

Thanks for your write-up. I'm tackling this project right now and have only the injector bases (lower intake manifold that connects to the block) to remove.

I'm having a hard time removing these. From what I can see there are only 4 bolts holding the injector base to the head. Am I missing something? How did you remove the injector base to access the knock sensor?

Thanks!

FL_Ridge · Dec 13, 2013

Okay, this should be a straightforward job for anyone looking to save hundreds of dollars. It isn't that intimidating if you're careful. It also should take that long.

Everything went relatively smooth except for the removal of the front injector base. There are a total of three bolts and two nuts that hold this piece on. By reading other posts and forums, it appears that few people mention the bolt that is somewhat hidden. While not truly hidden, it isn't easily visible like the others.

I also would recommend that you replace the gaskets on reassembly. Since you're saving a ton of money on the repair, splurge for the gaskets. It is good practice.

Had I not fumbled for an hour trying to remove the injector base the entire job would have been approximately 3 hours.

OwnerCS · Dec 21, 2013

When I performed a technical refresh on my VH45DE, I found a varmint had severely damaged the KS wire. It wasn't throwing codes but it was held by a thread. There is a running joke about KS wiring harnesses being made from used Big Mac wrappers.

Here's picture of the varmint chewed KS harness.

When I purchased a new harness, I wrapped it in "cool tape" then covered it in flex automotive conduit, then wrapped the conduit in Extreme Tape. It will need to be a determined varmint to get through new enhanced KS wire.

Here's how the enhanced harness looks installed on a VH45DE.

bmwr75 · Mar 21, 2016

A few days ago my Check Engine light and VTM-4 lights came on. Went to AutoZone to have the code pulled. It was Knock Sensor. Then I Googled and found this thread. Sure enought a rat had tried to build a nest on top of my battery in recent days/weeks and probably chewed on the knock sensor harness.

What happens if this is not fixed (other than idiot lights bothering me every time I drive the truck)?

S.T.U.V · Mar 21, 2016

You are unable to detect knock and you will blow up.

But on a serious note...Your engine can no longer detect if the motor is knocking. Which could effect vtec probably...and it could be running lean and not knowing it...multitude of issues. Can you not drive it for a week or so? Im sure it will be fine but I would keep your foot out of it as much as possible.

laserguy · Aug 18, 2016

Does anyone know, when this stared or if older trucks are also affected.

I remember years ago someone had an issue with mice chewing up the wiring and now it appears than even rabbits like to get in and eat it too.

Related link

https://consumerist.com/2016/01/25/...s-to-fix-vehicles-with-soy-coated-wiring-thats-irresistible-to-hungry-critters/

ridged · Aug 18, 2016

According to the article, it started in 2012.

"Drivers from three states sued Honda last week for breach of warranty, reports Courthouse News, claiming in the federal class action that the soy-based coatings in 2012-2015 model year Honda vehicles attract hungry critters."

Rodent damage to wiring

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