O2 Sensor Preventative Maintenance MPG Question

OwnerCS · Jun 24, 2013

Has anyone replaced their Ridegline's O2 sensors after 100,000 miles of service?

Here's a note about O2 sensor maintenance that yielded an MPG and performance improvement on a different Japanese V6. I believe the OEM O2 sensors may be sourced from the same Japanese company namely NGK/NTK. Also, I have read the Honda NSX comes with sensors sourced from NGK/NTK. NGK/NTK and Honda OEM are plug and play that do not require cable splicing. Also, I am sure I will change my own O2 sensors.

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Last November I bought a 99 Maxima SE 5-speed with 140,000 miles for my 16 yo son to be his first car. When I bought the car it was throwing a CEL code for the downstream O2 sensor. I soon replaced the faulty downstream O2 sensor and started waiting for a sale to pick up two additional upstream sensors. I figured the old sensors were factory OEM and should be replaced at the car's mileage point.

After school was out in May, he started driving the car a good distance each day to his summer job. He had been complaining about poor gas mileage and the cost of premium fuel. I thought the complaints were based a fuel cost comparison with his buddy's 4-cyl Honda. So based on the 4-cyl (regular) to 6-cyl (premium) fuel cost comparison, I didn't pay much attention to the complaint and figured it might be a good thing to slow down the mileage that comes with "going places" during summer school break.

Last week the radiator had to be replaced. So while replacing the radiator, I decided to go ahead and replace the upstream front and rear O2 sensors. By this time I had used some sale coupons to save a few bucks on new NTK sensors. Please note the car was NOT throwing any CEL codes with the old upstream O2 sensors. This was a preventative maintenance operation based on the car's mileage with understanding the original O2 sensors should have been replaced at 100,000 miles. As soon as I finished replacing the O2 sensors and checking out the cooling system from the radiator replacement I took the car for a test drive. I could tell an immediate performance improvement. It seemed to loose some of the jerking that was happening in 1st and 2nd gear. So I put away my tools and called it a day.

Three days later I asked my son how the Max drives with the new O2 sensors. His response: IT HAS MORE POWER and IT USES LESS GAS. So I want to use the money I'm saving on gas to buy a new Front Strut Tower Bar(FSTB). Well that's ok with me.

Since I didn't measure the bad mileage with the old sensors, I can't be scientific and post the mileage in MPG numbers. However, I guess from my son's perspective, the benefit to his pocketbook in fuel cost saving resulted in a new FSTB (~$30) fairly quickly. Yep.. he can get more more FSTB (and other performance accessories) by saving fuel with O2 sensor preventative maintenance.

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O2 Sensor Article Below
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Oxygen Sensors Don't Last Forever
Here's What Happens As They Age

As an oxygen sensor ages, contaminants from normal combustion and oil ash accumulate on the sensing element. This reduces the sensor's ability to respond quickly to changes in the air/fuel mixture. The sensor slows down and becomes "sluggish".

At the same time, the sensor's output voltage may not be as high as it once was, giving the false impression that the air/fuel mixture is leaner than it actually is. The result can be a richer-than-normal air/fuel mixture under various operating conditions that causes fuel consumption and emissions to rise.

The problem may not be noticed right away because the change in performance occurs gradually. But, over time, the situation will get worse, ultimately requiring the sensor to be replaced to restore peak engine performance.

Oxygen Sensor Failures Can Mean
Big $$ In Repairs If Not Replaced
The normal aging process will eventually cause the oxygen sensor to fail. However, the sensor may also fail prematurely if it becomes contaminated with lead from leaded gasoline, phosphorus from excessive oil consumption or silicone from internal coolant leaks or using silicone sprays or gasket sealers on the engine. Environmental factors such as road splash, salt, oil and dirt can also cause a sensor to fail, as can mechanical stress or mishandling.

A dead sensor will prevent the onboard computer from making the necessary air/fuel corrections, causing the air/fuel mixture to run rich in the "open loop" mode of operation, resulting in much higher fuel consumption and emissions.

An additional consequence of any oxygen sensor failure may be damage to the catalytic converter. A rich operating condition causes the converter to run hotter than normal. If the converter gets hot enough, the catalyst substrate inside may actually melt forming a partial or complete blockage. The result can be a drastic drop in highway performance or stalling because of a buildup of backpressure in the exhaust system.

Do YOU Know When It's Time To
Replace YOUR Oxygen Sensor?
Although some cars have an oxygen sensor "reminder" light to alert you when it is time to check the oxygen sensor, most do not. So, unless there's a noticeable driveability problem or a "Check Engine" light on, most people have no way of knowing if their oxygen sensor is functioning properly or not.

The growth of emissions testing nationwide is changing that, along with the introduction of new "enhanced" emissions testing programs that simulate real world driving conditions while emissions are being measured. The latter is proving to be very effective at catching emission problems that formerly escaped detection. Great! So you'll find out your oxygen sensor is bad only when you flunk your emissions test! Nice to know, huh?

According to a study conducted by Sierra Research, Inc., in 1996, oxygen sensor failure is the "single greatest source of excessive emissions for fuel-injected vehicles" and the second most significant cause of high emissions in carbureted engines.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have found that oxygen sensor replacement was required on 42%-58% of all vehicles that were subjected to an emissions check and were found to be emitting high levels of hydrocarbons (HC) or carbon monoxide (CO). Checking the operation of the oxygen sensor and feedback control system, therefore, should always be a priority anytime a vehicle fails an emissions test due to high HC or CO.

Oxygen sensor performance can be checked by reading the sensor's output voltage to make sure it corresponds with the air/fuel mixture (low when lean, high when rich). The voltage signal can also be displayed as a wave form on an oscilloscope to make sure the signal is changing back and forth from rich to lean and is responding quickly enough to changes in the air/fuel ratio.

Don't Wait For Failure
Replace Your Oxygen Sensor as Normal Preventive Maintenance
To minimize the consequences of normal aging, Bosch recommends oxygen sensor replacement for preventive maintenance at the following intervals:

Type of Car
Mileage Replacement Interval Recommended
Unheated oxygen sensors on 1976 to early 1990s vehicles
Every 30,000 - 50,000 miles
Heated (1st generation) oxygen sensors on mid-1980s to mid-1990s vehicles
Every 60,000 miles
Heated (2nd generation) oxygen sensors on mid-1990s and newer vehicles
Every 100,000 miles

Source: http://www.autohausaz.com/html/emissions-oxygen_sensors.html

AlexRTS · Jul 1, 2013

This is very interesting.

However, you should be able to hook up your truck to an OBD-II scan tool with support for live data and monitor the O2 sensors voltage. You should see variance between 0.1 and 0.9 volts. If your truck is a 2008 MY or newer, I believe you are blessed with the CANBUS protocol over the old 9141 protocol which is much, much slower to update data.

speedlever · Jul 2, 2013

Even though required by law (CANBUS for MY2008 and up), I am here to tell you that my 2008 still has the 9141-2 protocol. Honda has blown off my requests for info in this regard.

jeb · Jul 1, 2013

Not a bad article. I believe it. Everything will wear out eventually.

speedlever · Jul 2, 2013

So how does that excuse them from following the requirement for 2008 MY?

jeb · Jul 2, 2013

Well it doesn't. Honda is just stubborn I guess.

OwnerCS · Jul 5, 2013

As a side note, this afternoon I changed the (single) O2 sensor on the 95 F-150 4.9 L inline six cyl that yielded increased low end pulling power with more acceleration pep.

Now I can drive it up a neighborhood hill in 5th gear where it would lug down and start bucking before the change. No mileage testing yet. But it was getting 11 or 12 MPG a couple of weeks ago -- so I'm sure anything will help the gas consumption expense. The ~$41 Bosch O2 sensor made a more dramatic performance improvement than all of the new plugs, wires, and filters and all that I replaced last fall.

Note: After changing the O2 sensor on the 95 F-150, in town mileage went from 12 to 15, with highway mileage going from 15 to 18.5. Not bad for a truck with 260,000 miles on the original engine and transmission..

Here's a picture of some NGK/NTK O2 sensors with over 100,000 miles. They looked very tired and were unresponsive to leaning out an over rich mixture.

Doyle · Jul 6, 2013

Great article , thanks for the info .

OwnerCS · Nov 10, 2013

I just ordered new O2 sensors for my 2006 Ridgeline. I only use NTK/NGK OEM (plug-n-play) replacements in my Honda and Nissan products.

For a 2006 the part numbers are:

NTK--24302--Oxygen Sensor-->Upstream Front and Rear (2)
NTK--24259--Oxygen Sensor-->Downstream Front (1)
NTK--24255--Oxygen Sensor-->Downstream Rear (1)

I've read some product reviews where Ridgeline owners found NTK O2 sensors to be an easy to replace part.
NTK/NGK parts cost a little more than others, but I've never had a bad experience or issue with installation.

I'm planning to sell my Ridgeline in about a month. I want it to have new "squeaky clean" O2 sensors for the next owner to enjoy for another 100,000 miles of excellent service and performance.

cdepuydt · Nov 11, 2013

So, how much did these end up running you? Looks like, at least from Amazon, it's gonna cose around $450 for all four sensors.

48218 · Nov 11, 2013

I honestly can't even count how many Subaru's have been 'fixed' when showing a failed catalyst code, by having an O2 sensor (or two) replaced. A certain very technically-oriented, and NDI-protected website I have access to is of the general opinion that O2 sensors don't fail without some cause other than mileage. IOW, many there seem to think that there's an underlying issue in the engine that causes them to fail. Either way, though, replacing O2 sensors VERY OFTEN cures various problems, including codes indicating failed catalysts. If you have a _second_ O2 sensor (one you've already replaced) fail fairly soon after you replaced it the first time, then you should look closely at the engine for something causing the failures (such as oil consumption, coolant 'consumption,' PCV system issues, poor combustion efficiency in general, or other problems).

OwnerCS · Nov 11, 2013

Well stated bulwnkl and to your point, I've seen reoccurring 4th gen Maxima and I30s Knock Sensor codes (at ~150,000 miles) disappear when the O2 sensors are changed. I've known people with Odysseys who did not change the O2 sensors until both the Catalytic Converter and O2 sensors started throwing codes at 200,000 miles. At that point, the Catalytic Converters had been destroyed by O2 sensors that began allowing too much un-burned fuel to pass at around 100,000 miles.

O2 sensors are fragile critters. If you replace your own O2 sensors, DO NOT DROP or you can risk damage.

I believe all (4) O2 sensors should be changed like changing all (6) spark plugs at a given service interval.

speedlever · Nov 11, 2013

Craig,

Have you changed all 4 sensors yet? Did you get the special tool? Any issues during the process?

OwnerCS · Nov 11, 2013

speedlever said:
Craig,

Have you changed all 4 sensors yet? Did you get the special tool? Any issues during the process?

I will be changing them this weekend (weather permitting). I already had two types of Q2 sensor tools (22mm) that I bought at Harbor Freight a few years ago. I think you can use a 22mm open end if you can reach into the area. I'll post back on which tool worked best.

I got the set at www.rockauto.com (where I buy most of my parts these days) for $323.56 + shipping

OwnerCS · Nov 15, 2013

The O2 sensors arrived on Thursday. I submitted the order on Sunday. That was quick. I'll be installing the new parts this weekend.

OwnerCS · Nov 17, 2013

Yesterday I changed the O2 sensors. It took about 2.5 hours to complete the operation. I found it necessary to use both the "crow's foot" and "long socket" type sensor tools. The downstream rear sensor required the long socket. The long socket seemed to work better for removing the upstream sensors.

Lessons Learned:

1) DO NOT ATTEMPT this job unless you have SMALL HANDS. My hands are too large to install the downstream rear sensor. Luckily my 22 yo son has small hands and he could reach into the area for installing the rear sensor.

2) The sensor plug receptacles were difficult to remove. Luckily I got some good information from Pilot owners (listed below) that helped me deal with the stubborn electrical plugs.

3) The NGK/NTK O2 sensors come pre-lubricated. There is a plastic cap that covers the sensor thread lubricant during shipment. No need to buy a tube of sensor safe anti-seize when using NGK/NTK sensors.

4) While not on the Ridgeline, in replacing sensors on a friend's Civic, I found Bosch sensor plug receptacles to not mate up with Honda plugs. I had to return the Bosch sensors for Densos. NGK/NTK always seem to fit perfectly.

Benefits for a 130,000 mile Ridgeline:

1) Improved engine pep and low RPM "town driving" performance. It feels like it did when it had about 40,000 miles. It seems to roll through my local streets without me needing to use the accelerator to "push it" along.

2) Improved mileage -- though I need to take it on a mileage run. I can tell it is using less fuel as the fuel gauge (between 1/2 and 1/4) didn't move yesterday while I drove it around in the afternoon running errands as compared to usage before the new sensors were installed.

I'll drive it more next week for a mileage run.

Helpful Forum Posting from Pilot Owners

I appreciate ZoneIII's candor and honesty in the following thread.

Note: instead of using string I used mechanics wire.

Also, it does not cause an issue if you use a "zip-tie" to secure the rear downstream wire so it doesn't touch a body or engine part that will cause it to rub through the wiring insulation.

http://hondaforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7496

Note In the Following Tool List: For the 06 Ridgeline the bracket head bolts are actually 14mm.

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/69-2003-2008-pilot/31934-o2-sensor-replacement-tips.html

;

OwnerCS · Nov 28, 2013

My in town/suburban mileage is now as good as or better then when the truck had 40,000 miles on it. I think it may be slightly better now that the engine is fully broken in.

While this was no small job in terms of effort and expense on my part, seeing the mileage and pep return to "like new" was definitely worth the time and money.

speedlever · Jan 16, 2014

Here ya go:

11-199

11-200

eurban · Jan 17, 2014

Thanks for that!

IanRTL · Jan 16, 2014

I remember when O2 sensors were like $30. Guess those days are long gone. And this truck has FOUR of them. Haha! I would love to do this for my truck since it's got 137k miles and its typical commute is now about 3.5 miles back and forth to work. My mileage has dipped to about 14.5-15, but I only fill up once a month. The truck still has good power and shifts very well. It does get better after it's warmed up to operating temp after a few minutes. I'm sure this would help, but I just don't know if dropping that much cash on it would be worth it. I'm probably going to be having a valve adjustment done this spring, so we'll see where we are in the summer or fall. Might do this myself before next winter.

juiceweazel · Nov 9, 2015

I'm still getting 13 around town after replacing my air filter so I'm wondering if this is the culprit? I have 75k & it runs fine so no clue why it's still so bad. Been the same since I bought it. I'm not ready to replace the plugs yet. Doesn't sound like a fun job anyway. Yikes, never knew they had four O2 sensors on these trucks, absolutely ridiculous! I remember spending $40 & only having to replace 1 back in the day. Just came to $340.

IanRTL · Nov 9, 2015

The spark plugs are very easy to change in these trucks. If you think changing the plugs would be hard, getting to the O2 sensors would be harder. I don't believe you'll see any improvement in mpg by changing the plugs, though. I changed mine a few years back at 105k miles and the ones I took out looked like they could run for many more miles. I recently just checked all of the plugs (now at 150k miles) and they look nearly new. As an aside, I'm still on my original O2 sensors and have never had a fault or an issue. I drive very little (4 mile trips to work and back per day) and I usually see about 14mpg.

If I were you, I would highly suggest doing the Idle Learn Procedure, or ILP, if you've never done it before. There is a very specific method by which this needs to be done, so follow it closely. If you use 87 octane gas, try using at least 89 octane for a few tanks. Many say they didn't see any changes in mileage by using higher octane gas, but I saw about a 1 to 1.5mpg increase when using 89 or 93.

speedlever · Nov 10, 2015

My shop talked me out of doing the O2 sensor replacement. I've had 3 or 4 P0420 codes since the TB service. So I may yet end up replacing those sensors. My shop thinks the cats need to be replaced. Hmm.

speedlever · Nov 10, 2015

It's a (relatively) heavy truck and there's probably not a lot you can do short of changing the driving environment. Short trips kill mpgs. I normally don't do less than 5 to 10 miles without shutting down and get in the 15-16 mpg range around town.

I doubt the ILP will do you any good. It seems to figure it out after driving for a while anyway... or that has been my experience.

I saw about a 1.5 mpg increase when I tried 87 octane pure gas during a 7 month trial. But then the price of nonEgas escalated and it was no longer worth the cost except for my lawn equipment.

The plugs aren't bad to change on the J35. #4 cylinder is a little tricky due to the fan placement, but you can normally wiggle the fan/radiator in the mount enough to remove the coil and plug. You may have to hold your tongue just right.

The back 3 cylinders aren't bad, but you have to do them by feel. Taller people have an advantage over shorter ones for this exercise.

juiceweazel · Nov 10, 2015

speedlever said:
It's a (relatively) heavy truck and there's probably not a lot you can do short of changing the driving environment.

But then the price of nonEgas escalated and it was no longer worth the cost except for my lawn equipment.

The plugs aren't bad to change on the J35. #4 cylinder is a little tricky due to the fan placement, but you can normally wiggle the fan/radiator in the mount enough to remove the coil and plug. You may have to hold your tongue just right.

The back 3 cylinders aren't bad, but you have to do them by feel. Taller people have an advantage over shorter ones for this exercise.

I didn't think there was much I could do. Just a hard hit considering I went from a Civic that was getting 25+ around town.
I run nothing but nonethanol for all carburated, the ethanol fouls up the carbs.
Thanks for the plug tips. I will probably have a hell of a time because I'm only 5'-6". I'm guessing they are fine as well.

tony5oh said:
Your profile shows location as PA. Probably hilly where you live. Terrain, how you drive, and the types of trips you make are probably the most important factors.
I'm in FL <flat>, work from home <no commute>, so only drive daily to the gym, run the kid around etc. Less than 10 min. trips. My MPG is usually 13ish.

It's got some hills, but not terrible as I live on Lake Erie.
Biggest complaint I have about this truck is the blind spots. Love the truck otherwise.

feetdry · Nov 10, 2015

I had all 4 of my O2 sensors (OEM) changed out over a year ago and I can tell you and show you that it really didn't change my MPG. Tracking with Fuelly for over 200,000 miles kind of tells the story.

Slider · Nov 10, 2015

Honda has a scam going with these things. Both my truck and the wife's Accord needed them but neither threw a code saying that. Both said cats and both got a sensor. Both are fixed but it's a joke. My last Honda after this airbag disaster.

juiceweazel · Nov 10, 2015

Could be worse. You could have brake issues (Toyota) or ignition keys killing the engine (Chevy). They all have their flaws, trick is to get the one with the most manageable issues.

O2 Sensor Preventative Maintenance MPG Question

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