Before You Change Your Oil..................

[FoxyRL]

A friend sent me this, it's quite long but terribly interesting. Could this be true?

Before you change your oil, you should read this.

IS OIL KILLING OUR VEHICLES? !!!!!
By: Keith Ansell, Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dialykl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding and high pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these chemicals in supplied oil was based on the fact that zinc, manganese and/or phosphates reduce the effectiveness and eventually damage catalytic converters and introduce minute amounts of pollutants into our atmosphere.
A month or so ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a totally failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles on them!! I immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder and asked how this could happen. They were well aware of this problem as they were starting to have many failures of this type. In the past, the lack of a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant, at assembly, was about the only thing that could create this type of problem. My customer has assembled many engines and had lubricated the camshaft properly.
This got me on the phone to Delta Camshaft, one of our major suppliers. Then the bad news came out: its today’s "modern" API (American Petroleum Industry) approved oils that are killing our engines. Meaning all flat tappets (cam follower) equipped engines as used in MG, Triumph, Austin, all BMC products, all British Leyland products, early Volvos, American hi-performance engines and many others.
Next call: To a major camshaft supplier, both stock and performance (Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are using during break-in so that the camshaft and lifters won’t fail in an unreasonably short period of time. They also suggest using a diesel rated oil on flat tappet engines.
Next call: To a racing oil manufacturer that we use for the racecars (Redline). Their response: "We are well aware of the problem and we still use the correct amounts of those additives in our products". They continued to tell me they are not producing API approved oils so they don’t have to test and comply. Their oils were NOT the "new, improved and approved" ones that destroy flat tappet engines! "We just build the best lubricants possible". Sounds stupid doesn’t it, New-Approved but inferior products, but it seems to be true for our cars.
To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to "warn us" of the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! "The reduction of the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followers". They are recommending that, for now at least, there must be a proper oil additive put in the first oil used on new engines, beyond the liberal use of molydisulfide assembly lube. They have been told that the first oil is the time the additives are needed but remain skeptical that the first change is all that is necessary. Their statement: Use diesel rated oils such as Delo or Rotella that are usually available at auto stores and gas stations.
This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) Bulletin #TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short discussion with their engineer and he agreed with all that I had been finding.
Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing and component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older British Motor bikes. The second surprise was that he was "VERY" aware of this problem because many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets that couldn’t rotate and are having a very large problem with the new oils. He has written an article for the British Bike community that verify all the "bad news" we have been finding.
Comp Cams put out "#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet Camshafts". They have both an assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in the bulletin was "While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from the off-the–shelf oil".
Next question: Now what do we do?
>From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam) "Use oils rated for diesel use", Delo (Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as other quality petroleum based oils. They are not API formulated and have the ZDDP we need in weights we are familiar with.
>From one camshaft manufacturer (Crane): "use our additive" for the first 500 miles.
>From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, it’s only about $14.00 for each oil change for an 8-ounce can (This problem seems to be something GM has known about for some time!). The additive says for break-in only, some dealers add it to every oil change.
>From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what we need!
>From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars. It may be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils that are Diesel rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified diesel oils.
Last question: So what are we at Foreign Parts Positively going to do? After much research we are switching to Redline Street rated oils and stocking the Castrol products that are diesel rated or otherwise seem acceptable. This is a difficult decision as we have been a dealer and great believer in all Castrol Products for over 40 years. We have been using Castrol Syntech (5W-50) oil in new engines for about 3 years so the cost difference is minimal on new engines. The actual cost in operation is also less as the additive packaged in Redline makes a 1-year or up to 18,000 mile change recommended! Yes, it is a long change interval but with lowered sulfur levels and the elimination of lead and many other chemicals in the fuels there are less contaminants in our oil from the fuel which is the major contributor to oil degradation. We will continue to offer the Castrol products but will now only stock the suggested diesel oils that they produce.
Too many things are starting to show up on this subject and it has cost us money and time. Be aware that "New and Improved", or even products we have been using for many years, destroys our cars as it isn’t the same stuff we were getting even a year ago.
If you have any additional input let us know. We need to let every flat tappet engine owner, i.e.: every British Car owner knows that things are changing and we MUST meet the challenge.
Keith Ansell, President
Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
www.ForeignPartsPositively.com
360-882-3596
Oil is Killing our cars Part II
Last month’s report on this subject is turning out to be just the tip of the iceberg! Many publications have had this subject of zinc-dialkyl-dithiophosphate (ZDDP) covered in varying depths over the last few months. Some publications have even had conflicting stories when you compare one month’s article with their next month’s article! They are all ending up supporting our report.
I have had the good fortune to have the ear of quite a few leaders in the industry including some wonderful input from Castrol and Redline. We have been very reluctant to "dump" Castrol, as it has been such a great supporter of our cars and industry over the years. Castrol hasn’t really abandoned our cars, just shifted to a more mass marketing mode. Many Castrol products are not appropriate for our cars today, some still are.
Now for the latest report:
#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked "Energy Conserving" in the API "Donut" on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all "Diesel" rated oils are acceptable. (See third article to amend this!)
#2 Castrol HD 30 is a very good oil for break-in of new motors. This oil has one of the largest concentrations of ZDDP and Moly to conserve our cams and tappets. (SEE THIRD ARTICLE…….This oil is NOT now recommended by Castrol)
#3 Only an unusual Castrol Syntec 20W-50 approaches the levels of protection we need when we look to the better synthetic lubricants. We are attempting to get this oil but will be using Redline 10W-40 or 10W-30 as these are lighter weights for better performance, flow volume, less drag and has the additive package we need.
#4 The trend today is to lighter weight oils to decrease drag, which increases mileage. Most of these seem to be the "Energy Conservation" oils that we cannot use.
#5 Redline oil and others are suggesting a 3,000-mile break-in for new engines! Proper seating of rings, with today’s lubricants is taking that long to properly seal. Shifting to synthetics before that time will just burn a lot of oil and not run as well as hoped.
#6 The "Energy Conservation" trend was first lead by automakers to increase mileage numbers and secondly because the ZDDP and other chemicals degrade the catalytic converter after extended miles, increasing pollution. We don’t have catalytic converters and the mileage gains are not that significant for most of us.
For you science buffs: ZDDP is a single polar molecule that is attracted to Iron based metals. The one polar end tends to "Stand" the molecule up on the metal surface that it is bonded to by heat and friction. This forms a sacrificial layer to protect the base metal of the cam and tappet from contacting each other. Only at very high pressures on a flat tappet cam is this necessary because the oil is squeezed/wiped from the surface. This high pressure is also present on the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) in diesel engines, therefore the need for ZDDP in all diesel engines.
Second part of the equation is Molybdenum disulfide (Moly). The moly bonds to the zinc adding an additional, very slippery, sacrificial layer to the metal. I found out that too much of the moly will create problems; lack of this material reduces the effectiveness of the ZDDP. The percentage, by weight is from .01 to .02%, not much, but necessary.
We’ll keep you apprised of any new findings! Happy motoring for now!

[FoxyRL]

OIL IS KILLING OUR CARS, Part Three (December 7, 2006)
Summation of what has been learned so far.
First is that there is a problem, lack of ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl DithioPhosphate) in modern oils kills at least our cams and tappets There seems to be no known alternative.
Second, our cars are a small percentage of the total market and BIG Corporate, the American Petroleum Institute and possibly government have made decisions that are detrimental to our cars. This problem isn’t going away.
Third, that many oil companies may have products that will continue to function well in our cars. Castrol, Redline, Valvoline, Mobil, Amsoil and others have now commented on my original article and are making suggestions. For some companies they are offering short lists of "acceptable" oils, others just one. One company has responded without any substantive information in a two-page "bulletin". By their account all their oils are superior and applicable. This is typical of most larger companies.
Fourth, some oil manufacturers are pointing to metallurgy, blaming poorly built cams and followers. This may have some validity but the bottom line is that there has been a big increase in failures with products that have been on the market with identical products that are now having greatly increased failures. To me the bottom line is, if the lubricants are working there is no contact between surfaces, it shouldn’t matter what the materials are, within reason.
Fifth, on "modern" production cars, stay with the manufacturer’s suggestions. For any car produced before about 1990 the owner needs to be aware that the suggested lubricant may have changed and may not be applicable. Flat tappet, stock, performance or modified may be affected.
Sixth, Yes there is more! Directly from Castrol Engineering November, 27, 2006 "Also, at this time we are not recommending use of heavy duty truck products due to different formula objectives between cars and trucks."
Now the important information: Oils that seem to be correct for our cars:
Castrol: Syntec 5W-40, Syntec 20W-50, Grand Prix 4-Stroke Motorcycle oil in 10W-40 and 20W-50, TWS Motorsport 10W-60*, BMW Long Life 5W-30*
*= full synthetic, available only at BMW dealerships
Redline: 10W-30, 10W-40 (Synthetic oils)
Valvoline: VR-1 20W-50 (Conventional oil)
Amsoil: Unknown
Mobil: Mobil 1 5W30 and 20W-50 (Synthetic)
What are we going to do at Foreign Parts Positively has been difficult to determine but with few options left, the following is what we are forced to do. Some of our choices have been based on the manufacturer’s willingness to help.
Break in: Delo 400 30W
Conventional oil: Valvoline VR-1 20W-50

Synthetic: Redline 10W-30 in newer engines, 10W-40 on older engines.
Break-in is now 3,000 miles (using Delo 400 30W) before changing to running oil.
Oil change interval: 1 year or 18,000 miles with Redline synthetic
1 year or 2,500 miles with conventional oil (Valvoline VR-1 20W-50).
Oil Filters: Correct Fram or Wix (Spin-0n), Felt in can type, changed with every oil change. We emphasize Correct as many oil filter manufacturers do no have proper backflow preventers, pressure bypasses or fine filter media.
Thank you to Castrol, Redline, Christiansen Oil, Valvoline, Mobil and Amsoil for input.
We’re sure this subject will continue: Please forward any new information you may encounter.
Keith M. Ansell
Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.

[typesfanatik]

can i get cliff notes

[basils]

Csimo.....you out there?

[MusicCityRidgeline]

Well, after reading that the only question I have is does the J35 engine use flat tappets?

I'll go look...

If not then really most of this does not apply. I'll pray for rollers while I look.

[MusicCityRidgeline]

...not having much luck on the Web. Does anyone have a service manual?

[Webwader]

MusicCity Ridgeline, note what the article says, "Fifth, on "modern" production cars, stay with the manufacturer’s suggestions." This only applies to cars made before 1990.

[CBRidgeJockey]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[typesfanatik]

well i dunno what any of this means, i went with royal purple 5w-20

[csimo]

I'm very limited on time right now, and haven't even read the entire post, but I do want to pass on a few comments.

First, the post reminds me very much of those urban myth posts, and quite a bit of the info fits that bill. There is a hint of truth to the overall topic... newer motor oils are not the best for older engines.

We can compare this to gasoline. All gasoline made today is unleaded, but prior to 1975 when you got "regular" gasoline it contained lead. Lead was a very cost effective component of gasoline up until 1975. When catalytic converters came onto the scene unleaded gasoline became a requirement since the lead would destroy the catalyst.

Sounds like no big deal right? Well lets say you have a real nice 1960's era muscle car, or really any car built before the early 1970's. These cars were designed to run on leaded gasoline. For the most part they don't have hardened valve seats which are required for unleaded fuel. If you run today's fuel in an such an original engine without supplements you will eventually damage the engine.

So to tie this all together.... you could have the headline that today's gasoline is KILLING your engine. That would be a fact if you apply it to an original 60's era engine. The fact is that if you have such a vehicle you can easily update the engine, or add a lead addtive to the fuel to make it run fine on today's fuels. Today's oils are designed for today's engines. A motor oil of today would be far from ideal for those same 60's era cars. If the engine has not been updated with modern components there are oil supplements that will work just fine.

Out of time... but this is nothing to worry about on a modern engine.