K&N Air Intake Installation

[csimo]

Originally Posted by Andy-Montreal

So its function is to trap water then? Interesting.....

Not to get off the subject (Joe & Keith) but please tell us as the suspense is killing me...........did you or did you not notice a powergain difference?

The condensation trap is what I remember hearing about anyway.

The lowest point in the system may not be the best place to trap water since we've got things other than gravity at work here.

As for power... I won't speak to the K&N per se, but aftermarket intakes in general. Most are designed to look and sound good... I doubt few companies have spent more than a few minutes on tuning for power. Those that do actually "tune" the intate are tuning for peak power only. This in not necessarily the best situation for normal driving. You can "tune" the pipe for good air velocity over a broad spectrum of engine speeds or higest volume at peak engine speeds... not both. Forgetting that the Ridgeline already has the intake air valve in place... let's say you removed the intake and ran with an open pipe. Run that engine on a dyno and you may get higher peak horsepower, but if you ran that vehicle on a 1/8th mile track you would probably loose to an identical vehicle with a 30% restrictor plate in place. Off the line and in most driving conditions (everything except high RPM full load conditions) the one with the restrictor plate will outperform the open pipe.

Is the factory intake a compromise? Absolutely. It's designed for good performance and quiet operation over the entire spectrum of everyday driving. If you make a pipe too big you get poor low speed performance. If you make it too smal you get poor high speed performance. There's no magic in this. An aftermarket intake is not subject to these criteria. All they need to satisfy is peak performance. If the low RPM performance is actually worse, or the vehicle's 0 - 30MPH time would be worse is not their concern.

Peak horsepower does not represent driving performance. A vehicle engine with a good flat torque curve is much more enjoyable to drive than one that only performs at high RPMs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these companies know that if you hear the intake sucking wind, and they can produce a dyno chart showing higher peak horsepower most people will believe they have increased power. Even if you're a "fast" driver you spend very little time under the conditions that are favorable for the aftermarket intake. Under normal driving conditions you may actually get less power, slower response, worse mileage, and increased emissions.

[Andy-Montreal]

I couldn't help but notice how the aftermarket air filter seems to now draw warmer engine compartment air rather than cooler fresh air via the ram-air stock intake tube. I know that keeping the stock intake tube still brings air into the new enclosed K & N air chamber but there's now an indirect induction of air (transfer of air) taking place as compared to the factory setup where the induction is direct. Wouldn't this be considered power-robbing?

Back in the '70's during the mechanical fuel injection and carburetor days, Porsche used a pop-off valve on the intake tube between the air filter housing and the throttle body/carburetor. During an odd backfire, the pop-off valve would open preventing a large hole from blowing open in the air filter housing. My first guess was that this "p-trap looking" side-branch tube was some sort of "absorber" that would perform the same function.

[MoosePond]

Originally Posted by csimo

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these companies know that if you hear the intake sucking wind, and they can produce a dyno chart showing higher peak horsepower most people will believe they have increased power. Even if you're a "fast" driver you spend very little time under the conditions that are favorable for the aftermarket intake. Under normal driving conditions you may actually get less power, slower response, worse mileage, and increased emissions.

Let's hear it for a voice of reason! Marketing hype and emotional response aside, you simply can't defy the laws of physics.

Reminds me of my hot rod days in the 60s when we used to remove our air cleaners on Friday & Saturday nights for the added wow factor.

[k757]

Originally Posted by Andy-Montreal

So its function is to trap water then? Interesting.....

Not to get off the subject (Joe & Keith) but please tell us as the suspense is killing me...........did you or did you not notice a powergain difference?

Joe and I talked about this and from our short discussion, I think we concluded that if there is a gain, you just won't notice the % increase.

Now the sound alone, well it does sound like the truck wants to eat up the cars in front of me. So my mind is telling me that it is more powerful due to the intense noise. Heck, I may have less power now, but I dont even care. When I floor it, it's just freakin' loud.

better gas mileage? I highly doubt it as I have already noticed that I rev it a lot more than before... I need to hear it! HAHAHA So I figure I'll drop there without even trying.

[vertrkr]

That trap thing is actually a resonator to help tune the pressure waves.

[k757]

Originally Posted by vertrkr

That trap thing is actually a resonator to tune the pressure waves.

so it helps soften the sound?

[vertrkr]

Originally Posted by k757

so it helps soften the sound?

I believe it's purpose is to cram more air in using the holtzman effect (spelling?). Although it could be just for audible sound effects at that early stage in the intake system, I remember reading Honda tuned the intake for both purposes. Here's a bit more info from Honda on the subject:

http://hondanews.com/catID2138?mid=2...37372&mime=asc

[k757]

Originally Posted by vertrkr

No, it's purpose is to cram more air in using the holtzman effect (spelling?).

sounds like higher science to me. ....

[zinger084]

Originally Posted by Andy-Montreal

I couldn't help but notice how the aftermarket air filter seems to now draw warmer engine compartment air rather than cooler fresh air via the ram-air stock intake tube. I know that keeping the stock intake tube still brings air into the new enclosed K & N air chamber but there's now an indirect induction of air (transfer of air) taking place as compared to the factory setup where the induction is direct. Wouldn't this be considered power-robbing?

Back in the '70's during the mechanical fuel injection and carburetor days, Porsche used a pop-off valve on the intake tube between the air filter housing and the throttle body/carburetor. During an odd backfire, the pop-off valve would open preventing a large hole from blowing open in the air filter housing. My first guess was that this "p-trap looking" side-branch tube was some sort of "absorber" that would perform the same function.

I agree with Andy. I am a mechanical engineer and I have always messed with these intakes on Import Tuner cars but not trucks. It seems as if the Ridgeline Stock intake is very well designed to allow for cold air intake.

Anyone have any comments on this issue?

I'll check with my cousin at Honda R&D Americas (he designed this intake; no, I'm not kidding) and see what he thinks about the K&N and AEM intakes).

[djeaux]

Originally Posted by k757

Joe and I talked about this and from our short discussion, I think we concluded that if there is a gain, you just won't notice the % increase.

A 10 hp increase (the "claim" on the K&N dyno sheet, IIRC) is only 4%. I don't think that was Keith's motivation for this mod, anyway.

Personally, I'm sticking with the OEM intake system, because I have become quite fond of the quietness of my Ridgeline. But for somebody who wants "the sound," the K&N kit is well designed & relatively easy to install.

Wasn't the Holtzman effect the "scientific principle" mentioned in Frank Herbert's Dune books that "explained" hyper-dimensional supra-lightspeed space travel? If so, the condensation trap/resonator/whatever thingie may turn out to be the much-discussed flux capacitor... In that case, Keith has REMOVED his flux capacitor! HAHAHAHA!