Amsoil Synthetic Oil Has Anyone Used It

[hiPSI]

Originally Posted by csimo

An oil tidbit: Let's say you change your oil and then check it a few days later. You notice how black the oil is. Is this good or bad?

I'd much rather have an oil that looks dirty after a few days than one that looks clean after 2000 miles.

The influx of contaminants is fairly constant over the life of the oil. Carbon, acid, dirt, etc. The larger particles are filtered out by the oil filter (assuming you used a high quality filter). What happens to the rest of the particles that are too small to be filtered? One of two things happen. Either they are held in suspension by the oil (good) or they precicipate out and form sludge (bad).

We've used detergent motor oils for years. These oils are formulated to hold the contaminants too small to filter out in suspension. This is by design.

So if you have an oil that still looks clean after a couple thousand miles the oil is probably letting the contaminants precipitate out into sludge. A good oil will look dirty and keep those same contaminants in suspension.

Most people think that an oil that still looks clean after a couple thousand miles is a good thing. Why not make an oil that still looks like new after several thousand miles? It might sell some oil, but it's not the best thing for your engine.

Just another case where common perception and the truth are opposites.

Good Morning csimo,
I felt I need to chime in here because I do have a few qualifications in the oil and filter world. No, I do not sell either but the components and systems I design depend on both. I will keep this real simple and try not to mis-inform anyone.
If you are a normal everyday consumer, use the dino oil and change it when the MM tells you to do so. Honda designed it that way to give you the longest engine life possible using normal economic constraints. This method will be what most good consumers use and this is the method I always use on my personal vehicles. Like csimo said, there IS NO MAGIC HERE. That being said, if you have lots of money and you want this truck with it's current engine purring like a kitten 20 years and a million miles from now, this is what you could do to maybe get there: Start running a full synthetic (mobil 1 would be my choice and using this type will lessen cold start wear due to uniform viscosity over wider temperature range), change oil pump to high flow, remote mount a dual high capacity filter with 4 to 6 micron absolute ratings and change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles. In any system, contamination is your worst enemy. Remember I said money is no object? These filters will set you back around $400 every time you change them. Use the Pall brand or equivalent. Do this and you will be filtering down to bacteria level. Use this method and, while I never guarantee anything, I will say with confidence you will eventually be setting records for long life out of this engine. So you want to go a million miles? Well, at 50,000 miles a year that will take you 20 years. You will spend $80,000 on filter elements alone or $4,000 per year on elements compared to about $70 a year using conventional elements. How many new trucks could you buy for the price of the elements alone? And last thing, have you ever ridden in anything that has a million miles on it? I have. Just imagine the seats, the carpet and everything else after a million miles. If this were a commerical vehicle and it was being run 24/7 365 and it cost half a million new and production of some sort depended on it, I would use this method. Using it for what it is designed to do (haul people and supplies around in comfort) I will stick with the dino oil and the MM thank you. Much more economical. I get tired of my trucks around 100,000 miles anyway and I think I would like to have the green RL next. Listen to csimo and kodiak and others on this board, they really know what they are talking about and they (or I) are not pushing any product. Good luck and remember, performance costs every time...how much are you willing to pay?

[hondafansince1980]

Yes, I have used Amsoil since 2001, am currently using it in my 2007 RT.
I have used various grades of Amsoil,greases,gear oils etc,etc-nothing but great results. Go to Amsoil's website,look at the industry standard test results for yourself. Amsoil's ratings all exceed anything required for new or older vehicles. Amsoil invented synthetic car oil in 1972-yes even before Mobil. Amsoil makes all their own oils, not buy some body else's and put their name on the label like some companies do. No relation to amway.

[csimo]

Originally Posted by hondafansince1980

Yes, I have used Amsoil since 2001, am currently using it in my 2007 RT.
I have used various grades of Amsoil,greases,gear oils etc,etc-nothing but great results. Go to Amsoil's website,look at the industry standard test results for yourself. Amsoil's ratings all exceed anything required for new or older vehicles. Amsoil invented synthetic car oil in 1972-yes even before Mobil. Amsoil makes all their own oils, not buy some body else's and put their name on the label like some companies do. No relation to amway.

Again, all I want to do is keep things accurate.

#1 Neither Mobil, nor Amsoil were the first to invent synthetic car oil. Not even close. The Germans were producing and using synthetic oil before Amsoil's Amatuzio was even born. Their "First In Synthetics" slogan has a caveat... Amsoil was the first to produce an API approved synthetic motor oil. They were not even close to being the first synthetic oil. Germany was using synthetic lubricants (and fuels) in mass quantities in the 1930's.

#2 I would LOVE to see Amsoil undergo industry standard testing. They in fact exclude themselves from most such testing (thus the lack of API Certification). Nearly all their tests quote "independent lab results", but they fail to identify who the "independent lab" is. They quote many irrelevant tests (the infamous four-ball test for one) that have little to do with today's internal combustion engines.

#3 I went thru the Amsoil plant many years ago. Amsoil does not produce any oil. They buy base stocks from other companies (mostly Exxon/Mobil the last I heard) and have additive packages produced for them by other companies. They may now make some of their own additive packages, but the base stocks are not made by Amsoil. Amsoil is primarily mixes additives to base stocks purchased from others and markets the resulting products under their own brand name. Threre's nothing wrong with this, but in the interest of accuracy we have to acknowledge the truth.

I've received many, many email messages over the years regarding my position on Amsoil. Praise, threats, you name it. The fact is that I have never commented on the quality of the products. They may be very good, but we really don't know since they choose to not comply with industry standards. I have repeatedly said that I don't like the deceptive practices Amsoil uses.

In defense of Amsoil I did notice that they've changed some of the deceptive packaging on their newer products. Many of their higher end products had a symbol that looked very much like the API Certified starburst on the package. Unless you read it carefully one would think it was the API starburst when in fact it wasn't. Perhaps this is a welcomed change in direction for the company. I would love for them to conform to industry standard testing and prove that they make the best lubricants in the world. If I ran the company and believed I made the best lubricants in the world I would welcome any and all testing as a challenge to prove my product.

[Whaleya]

Am I correct in that the oil companies put better additive packages in synthetic oil compared to dino oil?


-W

[csimo]

Originally Posted by Whaleya

Am I correct in that the oil companies put better additive packages in synthetic oil compared to dino oil?


-W

I would say in general the answer is yes. There are exceptions of course. For example, Havoline puts a pretty darn good additive package in some of their dino oils (they're not alone, just an example), and the other side of the coin would be SuperTech Synthetic (Warren Performance Products) which is a Group III/IV base stock synthetic but has a fairly weak additive package.

Unfortunately most oils that call themselves "synthetic" today are really Group III base stock products. These are not what I'd call synthetic, but due to some terrible rulings they are legally allowed to call them synthetic.

In reality any good API Certified motor oil will provide excellent results. It's my opinion that the oil filter you choose is as important as the oil you use. Too often the filter is overlooked... people will spend extra money to get premium oil and then use a junk oil filter. I'd rather have an average oil with an excellent filter than an excellent oil and a junk filter.

[hiPSI]

Originally Posted by csimo

I would say in general the answer is yes. There are exceptions of course. For example, Havoline puts a pretty darn good additive package in some of their dino oils (they're not alone, just an example), and the other side of the coin would be SuperTech Synthetic (Warren Performance Products) which is a Group III/IV base stock synthetic but has a fairly weak additive package.

Unfortunately most oils that call themselves "synthetic" today are really Group III base stock products. These are not what I'd call synthetic, but due to some terrible rulings they are legally allowed to call them synthetic.

In reality any good API Certified motor oil will provide excellent results. It's my opinion that the oil filter you choose is as important as the oil you use. Too often the filter is overlooked... people will spend extra money to get premium oil and then use a junk oil filter. I'd rather have an average oil with an excellent filter than an excellent oil and a junk filter.

You are exactly right on the oil filter. Unfortunately, there are smoke and mirror tactics that go on in the filter world as well. Ask what filters are used on the machines that manufacture Wix filters...they are not wix!

[amp5516]

Hey Csimo, what oil filter do you use?

[csimo]

Originally Posted by amp5516

Hey Csimo, what oil filter do you use?

I currently use the Honda 15400-PLM-A01 (Filtech filter, do not use the Honda 15400-PLM-A02 filter which is a junk Fram filter).

The best filter I've dissected and analyzed for the Ridgeline is the Purolator PurONE PL14610.

The best value for a good quality filter is the SuperTech ST-7317.

Worst that I know of? Fram PH-7317 or Honda 15400-PLM-A02. They're just plain junk and are nearly as bad as not having a filter at all. A terrible thing to do to your engine.

You can search ROC for my brief oil filter study. I cut apart several different filters and took pictures so you can decide for yourself. I've cut apart a few since then, but didn't take pictures.

[canucksridge]

Great info here. I'm using the K&N and Mobil 1 10-30. I know it's not the correct weight but I hope this is ok

I plan on keeping this truck for 200,000miles and do drive a ton of HWY miles in SC/Northern Canada. I'm towing a trailer 75% of the time this summer that is 17' long and weighs in at 2800lbs loaded with RC stuff.

Please give me you thoughts,
P

[csimo]

Originally Posted by canucksridge

Great info here. I'm using the K&N and Mobil 1 10-30. I know it's not the correct weight but I hope this is ok

I plan on keeping this truck for 200,000miles and do drive a ton of HWY miles in SC/Northern Canada. I'm towing a trailer 75% of the time this summer that is 17' long and weighs in at 2800lbs loaded with RC stuff.

Please give me you thoughts,
P

canucksridge, you need to make a change. If you were in LA or Miami I could accept the 10W-30, but not in Canada.

Honda recommends 5W-20 in North America. With the towing I could understand going to 5W-30, but please don't stretch this to 10W-30.

I would strongly recommend you at least compromise to 5W-30 if you're not willing to run 5W-20.