Diesel Performance

[RustyH]

Anyone who says diesel's aren't worth the cost should check out this link.

http://www.hlineconversion.com/

Right now Jonathon Goodwin is doing things with diesel's that was unheard of just a few years ago. With gas expected to be around $3.50 a gallon nationwide by spring, his conversions, while expensive, are quickly aproaching a break even stage a few years down the road. Hopefully, he'll take a look at the deisel that Honda is proposing for it's accord (an maybe Ridgeline) and see what he can do to improve what engineers say can't be done.

[djeaux]

There has been a lot of brouhaha here about the upcoming Honda diesel. I'm a professionally-trained skeptic, so I decided to do my own calculations.

First, I looked up the current gasoline and diesel average prices for my region at http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp. This week, diesel is selling for 45.4 cents more than regular unleaded gasoline along the Gulf Coast.

I calculated my own cost/mile based on the 18.4 mpg overall average my Ridgeline has posted since purchase. That's a fuel cost of 16.6 cents/mile. Based on the 12,000 miles typically allowed on a lease, that's 652.2 gallons/year.

Next, I calculated the mpg I'd have to achieve on diesel to match the 16.6 cents/mile figure. That yielded 21.1 mpg on diesel, or 567.8 gallons diesel/12,000 miles, which is a money savings of $38.30/year (running off this week's prices).

Based on discussions I've seen here as well as a recent conversation with my Honda dealer & service manager, we should expect a diesel Ridgeline to command a $3,000-5,000 price premium. So in order to achieve pay-back on the additional cost, I'd have to drive a diesel for 104.5 years.

Using the cost/mile method gave me an efficiency improvement for diesel of only 15%, and that didn't smell right, so I went to the link in the above post & read that guy's claim that he is achieving a 100% improvement in fuel economy with his Hummer conversions. Okay, I don't believe what I read on websites necessarily, but I decided to drive another set of calculations off a 100% improvement in fuel economy.

If a diesel Ridgeline were able to average 36.8 mpg, that would lower the cost to 9.5 cents/mile, saving $148.04 annually compared with gasoline. That dramatically lowers the pay-back period ... it would "only" take 27 years to pay off the additional $4,000 cost.

Much as I love my Ridgeline & respect Honda engineering, I do not think that most folks are going to drive a vehicle for 27 years nor do I think they're going to average 65,000 miles/year to make the payoff happen during a five year lien...

Calculations are attached. If my formulas or logic are off, just flame away.

[STEVE FROST]

Djaux

Stop making sense!

The Dieselologist's believe that this fuel is their salvation, we can contunue our life style unabated. Please do not worry about the fact that the long term reliability of the new technology diesels has no track record. Do not concern yourself with the fact that the oil companies are raising the price of the new low sulpher diesel at a higher rate than gasoline.

These people need a religion for stability. Stop rocking the boat.


I am not opposed to a diesel in anyway, I embrace the idea of this new technology, but I too would like to see how well it works and study the long term benifit before I make the plunge. The issues of nasty emissions from diesels are being addressed. There are also issues created by the fact that the higher energy will create more heat and we need better metalergy and systems to cope with the higher pressures and temps created.

Now please refrain from foaming at the mouth and spitting all over the keyboard and screen as you write your responses.

[RustyH]

First off, it's not so much about saving a few dollars (or spending a few more) on fuel. If you check out what Goodwin is doing, he's taking exisiting technology and expanding it's potential. Along with his "experiments" using bio-diesel fuel and hydrogen cell, he's making strides towards a truly "green" vehilce. As far as I can tell, most of his constructions not only get improved mileage, but the pollute far less than conventional deisels.

And to be honest, the horsepower he's producing from his conversions is off the hook. I'm sure when Honda does offer it's diesel, the rest of drivetrain wont stand up to the torque and HP Goodwin is making.

As for keeping a vehilce 27 years to make up the costs, what's wrong with that. I've got two 1981 civics, one hatch and one station wagon. I bought the hatchback for my daughter five years ago and it's still running great, getting 32 MPG even the the A/C on. I am now putting together the station wagon for my son, with an orginal 1.5L JDM motor with only 13,000 miles on it! It won't win any races, but it should be good for another 30 years when I through with it.

As for the "long term reliablitiy" factor, just how long to you want to wait. I don't claim to be any expert on diesel, in fact, I know little or nothing about them. But they've been around just as long as the internal combustion gasoline motor and and I don't see too many long haul rigs riding on gas motors.

Sorry, I digress...I didn't put this up to start another gas vs diesel debate, just to highlight the potential that's being done.

If Honda does offer a diesel motor in it's pickup, I will definately look into it, especially if it can set up to run on bio-diesel fuels, which burn cleaner than regular diesel fuel.

PS...BTW Steve...I love Los Gatos. My sister in law and her husband live there and my wife and I used to drive or BMW motorcycle up to visit every Thanksgiving when we lived in California. He works for NASA and she runs an interior plant design company. Anyway, it's a beautiful little town.