[redsol]

Looking for some advice here.

2 years ago I bought an 06 LX. Got the safety papers and emissions test (ALL PASSED) from the previous owner. Everything was legit and we made the deal.

2 years later, I'm trying to sell the truck and it has failed the emissions test. 2 cats, 2 evap sensors, fuel cap. When I looked into the drive clean (Ontario, Canada) records, I see that 2 years ago it failed with the same issues (cats), a day later it passes. My mechanic was puzzled because the check engine light did not come on, which it definitely would have if it is throwing those codes. When he checked the check engine bulb, it was MISSING!

So my conclusion is this...the old douche bag of an owner had the car tested, it failed, so his mechanic reset the codes, removed the check engine bulb and re-tested it right away. Surpise...it passes, and he gets the emissions papers for transfer of ownership. And now I'm stuck with over 2k in repair costs...

Any advice? Drive Clean Ontario says after 1 year, I'm basically SOL. Would the police do anything here?

 

[MikeT]

Looking for some advice here.

2 years ago I bought an 06 LX. Got the safety papers and emissions test (ALL PASSED) from the previous owner. Everything was legit and we made the deal.

2 years later, I'm trying to sell the truck and it has failed the emissions test. 2 cats, 2 evap sensors, fuel cap. When I looked into the drive clean (Ontario, Canada) records, I see that 2 years ago it failed with the same issues (cats), a day later it passes. My mechanic was puzzled because the check engine light did not come on, which it definitely would have if it is throwing those codes. When he checked the check engine bulb, it was MISSING!

So my conclusion is this...the old douche bag of an owner had the car tested, it failed, so his mechanic reset the codes, removed the check engine bulb and re-tested it right away. Surpise...it passes, and he gets the emissions papers for transfer of ownership. And now I'm stuck with over 2k in repair costs...

Any advice? Drive Clean Ontario says after 1 year, I'm basically SOL. Would the police do anything here?

Well, first thing, the CEL is not a "bulb", it's an LED. Is the LED missing?

 

[redsol]

LED or bulb...yes my mechanic said it is missing.

 

[redsol]

Just wanted to add that I just found out this morning, so I'm livid.

I should go and pay this guy a visit....

 

[speedlever]

Wow. Just wow.

Take your friends Bubba and Vinny along to show you mean business.

I wonder if there's any legal option you have for fraud at this late date? Probably not as someone who would do that would probably say that you, the present owner, must have removed the LED because it was there when I sold it.

Unbelievable.

Good luck.

 

[zroger73]

Interesting. Here, even in areas that don't do emissions testing, the CEL must be functional in order to pass a safety inspection. The inspector turns the key on to ensure the indicator works.

 

[schwejo]

Resetting the warning indicator doesn't reset the physical error condition. You cant just turn off the warning indicator and immediately go get and pass a smog check. The vehicle computer still needs to go through its own check which can require substantial driving time under certain programmed conditions. The conditions are known so you can make an effort to speed up the process, but turning off the light doesn't in itself allow you to pass a smog check.

Not saying someone didn't fraudulently pass the vehicle then disguise the fact by disabling the CEL, but the premise of turning off the warning indicator with a reader and immediately getting a legitimate smog check doesn't work. At least in California, the authorities would be all over a fraudulently passed vehicle/shop, so perhaps that's an avenue for you?

 

[quickshift]

I "think" there is a grace period or something where if the cost of repair is excessive, you can get an extension so the repairs can be done and retested later. Check at the local test facility.

 

[IanRTL]

Document everything and go to small claims court. The fees will likely be hard to swallow, but this guy sold you something that was completely misrepresented. I honestly don't know if it's worth the hassle. The original owner will deny everything and you'll need to be extremely thorough in your proof. Try to find where the truck was tested where it "passed" and get a copy of the invoice from the service. If it's a mom n' pop shop, it's probably a hand-written bill - in which case, you'd be out of luck. Just as an aside, you can source aftermarket catalytic converters and other parts outside of the dealership. The parts are of decent quality and a fraction of the price. As far as the CEL light missing, someone would REALLY have to want to get to that thing in order to remove it. The instrument cluster isn't all that easy to remove, let alone, dismantle. The CEL is an SMD LED that is soldered to the board, so cutting it off of there would be difficult. Beyond that, your mechanic would have had to dismantle most of the dash to see if the "bulb" was missing. You may want to get a second opinion on the whole thing.

 

[xrdad]

Redsol,

I'm sorry to hear this. It's totally unacceptable and someone should lose their job over this... But IanRTL is right. Unless you have time and money and luck on your side, this is going to be a difficult fight.

Showing the failed, then passed etest is a good start. There is an r/o documented somewhere that will show what they 'did' to pass the truck and it will likely be some bogus repair that a qualified tech would poke holes through. But in the end, you'll never be able to prove without a doubt what happened. That said, report it to the MTO with all the details you do have and photos. This shop may already be under investigation. Small claims though? Speak to a lawyer. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Too little, too late, a simple thing that all car buyer should know and do: Key on, engine off, the MIL light should be on. If not, walk away.

For the good news - This is an RL and these trucks don't have a lot of issues. Throwing converters and sensors at it is an expensive way to fix it. You may not even be replacing the right parts? It could be a simple evap problem and need just a solenoid. Have the tech pull the codes on it and let's see what you are dealing with.
Also, from your used car package, find the selling dealer. Ask them to pull the history on the truck. Was is dealer serviced? This might help you find out what happened. There are many possibilities, some could be real bad news (ex - engine replaced, wrong engine installed? Not trying to scare, just clarifying this could be ugly).

In the meantime, you'll need to find a cluster for this truck. I don't know that you can replace the bulb itself? This job alone is going to frustrate the hell out of you... a used cluster with the incorrect mileage will need to be reported to the MTO. You have to add a sticker in the door jamb with the right mileage. Most people won't notice or care, but as a buyer, I'd walk away from your truck for this reason alone. Your resale may be a little more difficult (although, I'm not sure it has much value left, so depending on your price point, may not be an issue at all).

Finally, I'd be pretty upset about this. I would pay a visit to the repair shop that passed it and maybe even try a bluff. You know what happened, so in a calm tone, explain the situation, your findings and that you are going to report it.
Most shops that would do this are going to ignore you, but you could get lucky and scare them into fixing it? IF you could prove it, the MTO would not forgive this easily and this shop would be in a lot of trouble.

 

[quickshift]

Go back to the shop that tested it. Ask for a test so you can transfer the truck into your wife's name for personal reasons. They may test it with "results" as before knowing the owner does not want to sell it. THEN SELL IT.

 

[big_eddy]

Some thoughts to ponder.

The current Ontario Drive Clean test doesn't care if the bulb is lit or not. It cares if the ECU is telling the bulb to light or not. Whether the bulb is present or not shouldn't affect the results.

The current ODC test won't pass a vehicle that hasn't completed the drive cycles and all monitors are set, so deleting a recurring code isn't a sure fix.

I'm sure there are creative ways to circumvent the test, but I don't think removing the LED from the instrument cluster would result in a false pass.

When was the last test done? I can't recall when we switched from the old (dyno & sniffer) test, but a MIL on condition was not an automatic fail on the old test. As long as the sniffed results were within spec, the MIL could be on or not. My 99 Odyssey had the (common!) rodent caused knock sensor failure and it passed every 2 years regardless, up until they changed the test.