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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I own a 2007 Ridgeline. The engine started having a knocking and ticking sound and I am in the process of replacing it. A junk yard sold me an engine, the mechanic discovered a crack by the water pump, called the junk yard and they brought another engine to the shop. However, new engine is from a 2009 model and they told my mechanic that he has to exchange the intake from the original 2007 engine to the 2009 to be able to use it. Now my mechanic is skeptic about it as he hasn't done this before.

Can someone tell me about it?

Thanks a lot!
 

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Here are the powertrain changes in 2009:
Powertrain

Horsepower and torque (increased)
Magnesium dual-stage intake manifold (previously aluminum)
Camshaft (tuned for low-end torque)
Intake valves (larger)
Starter motor (ultra-fast)
Transmission gear ratios (lower for better acceleration)
6-degree crank pulse sensor
Airflow meter within the air intake tract
Optimized engine block coolant passages
New EGR valve

Others here would know more than I, but I would think a short block swap shouldn't be a issue.
One issue that comes to mind is the temperature sensors. On the 06'-08' both are around the thermostat housing and in 09' they moved one to the lower radiator, but swap housings and should be good there.
Yes the intake needs swapped as the MAP/MAF sensors are different.

Other things may come to mind later, but that's what hits me off the top of me head...lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you, skelley521, appreciated. Hoping to get more comments to print and take to the shop.
 

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Yes, I'm sure a short block swap would be okay, as long as you can use most of the bolt-on parts from your '07 (intake manifold, water crossover pipes, etc). The '09 has a different EGR setup, and I'm not sure you can use an earlier water crossover pipe. I think the '07 receives EGR from the cylinder head, and the '09 takes it from the exhaust pipe after the front bank catalytic converter. Will you be using the '07 cylinder heads?
 

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No Way I would do this.... too many unknowns. You have electrically controlled engine parameters that are very complex. Are there any aspects of this that conflict (pre vs. post 2009) due to different cam, VTEC, fuel management, sensors, or other changes???? I don't know, and I would bet there aren't more than 1 or 2 online here who can tell you definitively (maybe none w/o some research). Seems to me maybe the throttle controls are even different (I don't remember for sure).

You are talking about an engine swap, not a short block. I'm not entirely sure that even if you just changed the block you'd be OK (I believe even the block is a different part number, and I don't know why).

Best bet for you is to get the RIGHT engine (2006-2008) for your truck, in order to avoid unknown problems, even if you have to wait for one to be shipped in. They ARE available. Your mechanic is right to be wary... and you should be too, since any issues he has to troubleshoot & fix (if he even can) would be chargeable to you if you approve this "non-matching" replacement engine.

I would not do this unless it was the last engine available anywhere.
(or unless I was smart enough to be 100% certain of the interchangeability issues so that I could effectively accommodate them). Personally, I would not rely on advice on the internet to give me confidence to take this risk.

That's my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you, hokiefyd. As Dnick pointed out, this is an engine swap, not a short block. The plan is to use the entire 09 engine but with the air intake of the 07. The junk yard mechanic is positive it works as he has done it before, but as we know, he just wants to sell the engine, so cannot rely on it.
 

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Thank you, hokiefyd. As Dnick pointed out, this is an engine swap, not a short block. The plan is to use the entire 09 engine but with the air intake of the 07. The junk yard mechanic is positive it works as he has done it before, but as we know, he just wants to sell the engine, so cannot rely on it.
If "he's done it before" ask him what kind of accommodations he has to make to get it to work (any kludges?). If he's done it, and will take on responsibility (in writing) to remove & replace with another one ('06-08) if it does NOT work out completely, then you 'might' want to take the risk. But I just wouldn't want to find out after the fact that it "works", but you find yourself impacted in areas like fuel mileage, emissions tests, etc.

Personally, I'd hold out for getting it right w/o the heartburn.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you, Dnick. I took your 2 cents and called off. I am getting my money back and the right engine from another junk yard.

Thanks everyone for the comments!
 

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It sounds like you're getting the correct engine -- that's good.

The more I think about it, the more I think the 2009 engine *probably* would have worked, though the computer tuning would have been matched to the earlier engine design better. The mechanic would have had to use either the J-pipe or at least the front catalytic converter from a 2009+ model to be able to use the EGR feed pipe. EGR was fed internally prior to the 2009 engine refresh, but this changed in 2009 (in the Ridgeline, anyway) to an external feed pipe. Other than that, everything *probably* would have worked. It would have been a risk, though, and getting the correct engine is the path that offers the best chance of success.

Have the mechanic go ahead and put a new timing belt and water pump on the engine before it goes into the truck, so you have a fresh start on that. Should be very minimal labor with the engine out of the vehicle when he does it. It takes me about 5 hours in the vehicle to do one, but I think it'd be a 1 or 2 hour job at the most if out of the vehicle.
 

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I would've at least did some more research before calling it, but that's just me.
There are a lot of J series forums/sites out there that could give you specifics in a New York minute.
Having a new crank & egr would be 2 areas to look into. I'm thinking you might not get all the extra HP of the newer engine at most.
If both engines are sitting on the floor, I'd look over everything good and swap whatever was needed, that's the point when I would know.

May I ask why you are doing a engine swap? High mileage with a piston slap would be what would lead me to do a swap.
 

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One other area of difference ('08 vs. '09) is the MAF/MAP sensor arrangement. I don't know what the significance of this is.... but I know it's not going to be transparent.

I just mention this for anyone else considering a "cross-species" swap.
 

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One other area of difference ('08 vs. '09) is the MAF/MAP sensor arrangement. I don't know what the significance of this is.... but I know it's not going to be transparent.

I just mention this for anyone else considering a "cross-species" swap.
Correct, but changing the intake would resolve that.
I'm talking about using the block & heads.
One of the Jswap sites would be better to answer any and all questions I would think rather than here.
 

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Correct, but changing the intake would resolve that.
I'm talking about using the block & heads.
One of the Jswap sites would be better to answer any and all questions I would think rather than here.
I'm asking out of ignorance, but wouldn't changing the intake manifold still not solve the issue/problem of sensor reporting & engine management (due to different MAP/MAP set up)???
 

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I'm no expert either Dnick as the J35 is new to me, but from what I understand...
06-08 J35A have no MAP sensor. It should be located on the throttle body in 09+ J35Z
I believe however that the IAT sensor (intake air temp) is on the throttle body in 06-08'

I'm thinking the end of J35A series on the ridge is close enough to the beginning of J35Z on the 09-11' to be very compatible. Some other changes were done in 12'+ models, but I'm thinking they were minor also.

We have a honda guy at work, it's all he and his family drives and they even race them. I've talked to him about the J35 series in the past prior to me purchasing my RL so I could get a better understanding of the motor.

Since the J35A doesn't have a MAP sensor to report to the PCM and not knowing enough about the IAT sensor that should also be on the throttle, I figure swapping the intake would solve both of these issues.
But hey, I reserve the right to be wrong as I myself am still learning :act030:
 

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I'm asking out of ignorance, but wouldn't changing the intake manifold still not solve the issue/problem of sensor reporting & engine management (due to different MAP/MAP set up)???
The MAF/MAP sensors are all in the intake stream, so keeping the original manifold and intake system should maintain that system. The MAF sensor is located in the airbox lid over by the fender, and the MAP sensor is located on top of the throttle body. As long as everything upstream of the fuel injector bases (intake manifold, throttle body, air tube, air box) is retained, then it'll continue to operate as a 2006-2008 engine (even though the engine block itself has changed). At least from the MAF/MAP perspective.

Another difference between a MAF/MAP and MAP-only engine is the IAT sensor, or Intake Air Temperature sensor. On a MAP-only engine (like the J35A9), it's mounted in the intake manifold throat just behind the throttle body. An engine with a MAF sensor incorporates the IAT sensor with the MAF sensor. Again, as long as the original intake manifold is retained, that system should continue to work.

My MDX's J35A5 intake manifold, with IAT sensor installed:



My Ridgeline's J35Z5 intake manifold, with no sensor ports:



I think the J35Z5 uses a different valvetrain design than the J35A9 uses. I can only compare my J35Z5 to the J35A5 in our '05 MDX, but I think the A9 in the earlier Ridgeline is nearly identical to the A5. It uses a more traditional arrangement where each exhaust valve has an individual rocker arm, each intake valve has an individual rocker arm, and there's a fifth rocker arm on the intake side that operates against the lost motion spring for high RPM operation. The Z5 uses a different design; each exhaust valve still has an individual rocker arm, but there's a single Y-shaped rocker arm that actuates both intake valves from one cam lobe and a fourth rocker arm operates against the lost motion spring for high RPM operation.

Here's a picture of my Z5's valvetrain:



I say all above that to say that, if there are mechanical differences in newer VTEC valvetrain, there could be electrical differences as well, and some of the solenoid connections could be different.

I think a Z-series engine could be made to work where an A-series once was, but there's certainly less risk in using the correct engine.
 
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