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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2015 Accord LX as a loaner while my RL waits on the airbag inflator.

It was a surprise to me to find this Accord has a CVT. It drives OK, but I am not a fan of the CVT driving experience. I suppose I could get used to it though. Otherwise, the Accord is a very nice ride and surprisingly, gets about the same mpg as my old beater 99 Civic/5 spd. Maybe even better.

I had a trip for a basketball game last night that was a bit over 160 miles RT. I saw 36.5 up and 37.5 mpg back. Pretty impressive for a car of this size (driving with 3 adults up and 4 coming back)!

But I guess my observation about the CVT shows my ignorance. Apparently, Honda has been putting the CVT in Accords since MY 2013.

Looking at the spec page at Honda.com, I see the only Accord with the conventional 6 spd auto is the V6 version... which also comes with VCM. There are 3 models that offer the 6 spd manual.. the LX, Sport, and EX (but not the EX-L).

The Sport model also has a paddle shifter option for the CVT. Wonder how that works? And what is the available CVT sport mode?


Anyway, I was just surprised that Honda had moved to a CVT in the Accord and now see that I'm years out of date on my info.
 

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Yes, my dad had an Accord Hybrid with CVT, and it drove wonderfully. It is part of the reasons were willing to buy our FIT LX CVT which so far has 16,000+ trouble free miles, in just over a year of ownership.
 

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I LOVE the CVT in the new CR-V I'm driving (same powertrain as the Accord). I like how it holds engine speed low and constant during normal driving for very relaxed cruising - the engine rarely exceeds 2,000 RPM. I do NOT like how stepped automatics, manuals, or DSGs vary engine RPMs all over the place.

CVTs equipped with a manual shift mode simply move the belt to one of several, preset positions in an effort to simulate a manually-shifted conventional automatic or manual. It is little more than a marketing gimmick. You'll get better performance and efficiency by letting the CVT shift by itself.

Sport mode simply keeps the CVT in a lower gear ratio allowing the engine to rev a bit higher for a perceived increase in performance and a definite decrease in fuel economy.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I've noticed that same pattern Zrog. The engine rarely exceeds 2000 rpm. I have felt some light whipsawing at low speeds in parking lot maneuvers, but nothing that would be the kiss of death on this tech. I wonder how reliable it really is? Could I reasonably expect 300-500k miles out of it with routine maintenance (I assume there are fluid changes involved).

As for the rpm increase, gear shift and rpm decrease in a normal auto, I kinda like that. And it was one of my first clues I didn't have a conventional (such as it is) Honda auto tranny in this thing. This unit just passed 6k miles yesterday, so it's still pretty new.

But still, if the CVT proves to be reliable and low maintenance, I suppose I could get used to it.

I haven't driven it aggressively yet, so I don't really know how it will respond.

I have over 320 miles on this tank of gas and still have a solid 1/4 tank remaining. Color me impressed for a car of this size. The 4 banger is noticeable at idle... and that's one thing I don't like about 4 cylinder motors. But otherwise, it seems to have reasonable power. I'll have to step into in and see how it really performs.
 

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I've noticed that same pattern Zrog. The engine rarely exceeds 2000 rpm. I have felt some light whipsawing at low speeds in parking lot maneuvers, but nothing that would be the kiss of death on this tech. I wonder how reliable it really is? Could I reasonably expect 300-500k miles out of it with routine maintenance (I assume there are fluid changes involved).

As for the rpm increase, gear shift and rpm decrease in a normal auto, I kinda like that. And it was one of my first clues I didn't have a conventional (such as it is) Honda auto tranny in this thing.

But still, if the CVT proves to be reliable and low maintenance, I suppose I could get used to it.

I haven't driven it aggressively yet, so I don't really know how it will respond.
Yeah, most CVTs I've ridden in or driven have a bit of "chuggle" (possibly what you're calling "whipsaw" - my brother calls it "herky-jerky") at very low speeds and with a very light touch on the accelerator. Very sensitive people might interpret this as the vehicle being a bit touchy or difficult to drive smoothly at creep speeds.

I doubt you'll get 300-500K miles out of a CVT without a belt replacement or two, but that's cheaper than the cost to rebuild other types of transmissions.

If you drive aggressively, the engine will just rev up to near redline and hang there while the CVT constantly adjusts its ratio. Some people interpret this as the transmission is slipping, but I assure you it is not - it's simply a different way of transmitting power that most people don't understand.

To appease those who misinterpret CVT technology or refuse to accept a better way of doing things, manufactures have started implementing varying amounts of logic that make a CVT feel more like a conventional automatic. Example: If you floor a 2016 Civic, the engine will go to redline then the CVT will quickly and dramatically (as opposed to smoothly) change to a different ratio a few times to simulate discreet gear changes. Personally, I think this is stupid since it defeats the primary advantage of a CVT.
 

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OK Speed, What do you mean by :

I have felt some light whipsawing at low speeds in parking lot maneuvers, but nothing that would be the kiss of death on this tech.
Just Wondering
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Zrog nailed it above. Whipsaw was the best I could come up with at the moment! But herky-jerky (lightly so) might be more descriptive.

The tell tale essence of CVT is a perceived sag right after it moves off the line with light throttle application. It feels like it lightly bogs down, but I assume this is simply the belt changing position.
 

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If you drive aggressively, the engine will just rev up to near redline and hang there while the CVT constantly adjusts its ratio. Some people interpret this as the transmission is slipping, but I assure you it is not - it's simply a different way of transmitting power that most people don't understand.
In my loaner 2016 Civic with the 2.0L the CVT simulated "shifting" when you go full throttle...

Under normal acceleration, it just revs higher and higher... under full throttle (ie. to the floor) it revs close to redline, and simulates a shift, drops about 1500 rpms and climbs again. In the civic, it did this twice before I let out of it at ~100mph. (This was in a controlled environment)

The first part of this video shows how the civic reacts.


In the accord, it just revs to about 6800 rpms and holds it until you let out, reacts the same in Drive or in Sport, went up to around 90mph. The 16' Accord LX I'm driving doesn't have paddles.

To be honest, I'm not sure if my wife's 15' CRV does this or not, never been full throttle for more than a few seconds. I do like how relaxed the cvt behaves around town and in normal driving. We've got around 20k miles on the CRV and on trips out of town, the longest about 1,100 miles round trip, it averaged 33mpg at 75-78mph.
 

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My only experience with was in my daughter / son-in-law's Nissans (Rogue & Sentra). I also found the shifting "wonky" (try to decipher that one!).

I also am anxious for this type of tranny to establish long term (200-300K miles) reliability reputation (hopefully good).

But as a side effect, I have always felt my 4 banger Hondas "get their legs" in the higher RPM range.... they seem to breath easier & feel like they are "more comfortable" .... less loaded up when they get singing. So with these new MPG-chasing trannies that keep RPMs low, I wonder if the engines will feel the effect long term? Very unscientific pondering.... but curious just the same.

When driving a manual tranny, I would NEVER up shift just for the sake of upshifting, and I pretty much avoided the lower end of the RPM range. (if I wasn't going fast enough, I would just stay in 3rd or 4th)

I would even wonder if it wouldn't be better to have that kind of "continuously variable" gearing aimed at the HP sweet spot, vs. the lower range. More baseless speculation I guess.......
 

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A '15-'16 CR-V will rev near redline and stay there at full throttle until you hit the vehicle speed limiter. Unlike the Civic, it does not have simulated shifts nor a manual shift mode like the Accord. "S" mode will hold a lower gear ratio for improved acceleration feel during normal driving with a slight decrease in fuel economy. Turning "ECON" mode on makes the CVT choose a higher than normal gear ratio for slightly better fuel economy, but decreased acceleration.

Honda engines do "love to rev". I don't have a problem with engine speed, but with increased engine speed comes increased engine noise. I don't like to hear engines. I like quiet, serene, relaxed cruising. That's why I like the CR-V in ECON mode because it holds engines revs very low so there is very little engine noise. If not for the normal vibrations produced by an internal combustion engine, it almost feels like an electric vehicle in the sense that when you press the accelerator the car simply starts moving with very little powertrain noise. In order for the vehicle to somewhat safety get out of its own way, putting the throttle to the floor will essentially override the ECON mode - things get noisy either way.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I stepped into the gas on this the other day to see what it would do. It seems to go to about 4000 rpm and slowly drift upward. I'll have to try it again and confirm that.

Meanwhile, when I park in in the garage I'm constantly amazed how large this Accord is (compared to my 2006 Pilot). The 2015 Accord WB is 3 inches longer than the 2006 Pilot (109.3 vs 106.3 inches) and is more than 3 inches longer in length (191.4 vs 188.0 inches). But short of the 2008 RL at 122.0 WB and 206.8 inches overall length.
 

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FYI 2016 EX-V6 and Touring Edition Accords still come with 6-speed auto, other models get the CVT. I've never driven a CVT Accord, but Touring feels much tighter than previous Accords we've owned, shifts predictably and hauls butt with a little encouragement. :)
 

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I stepped into the gas on this the other day to see what it would do. It seems to go to about 4000 rpm and slowly drift upward. I'll have to try it again and confirm that.

Meanwhile, when I park in in the garage I'm constantly amazed how large this Accord is (compared to my 2006 Pilot). The 2015 Accord WB is 3 inches longer than the 2006 Pilot (109.3 vs 106.3 inches) and is more than 3 inches longer in length (191.4 vs 188.0 inches). But short of the 2008 RL at 122.0 WB and 206.8 inches overall length.
I drove my 2016 Loaner Accord LX last Friday on my way to my part time job... I'm a county reservist with the sheriff's dept, something I left a few years ago but was suckered back into last month due to a personnel shortage. I'm getting pretty well acquainted with wide open throttle. hahaha

Anyways, right as I'm pulling out of my driveway, a very urgent call comes through for assistance in a little town about 10 miles from my house. I'm leaving to pickup my old beat down Tahoe PPV but decide the Accord is gonna have to do. Merge on the Interstate, hazards on, radio that I'm on my way and foot to the floor...

The CVT does it's rubber band acceleration performance, then settles right at 6,800RPMS. I stay into it long enough to reach around 120mph, which is still very smooth, but seems like it's taxing the engine quite a lot even as the revs settle down as I let off, sort of jerky feeling. I settle into a cruise about 110, no traffic to speak of, handles that like a champ.

One observation on the car... much like my 16' Loaner Civic and my wifes CRV... I cannot stand the Econ mode/button, I've tried, but it's like taking a poke to the eye. It's like adding in a 20% lag in throttle response and pulling a ton of timing out. The civic was the worst out of the bunch for feel, strangely it doesn't seem to effect economy much for my driving style. I've been averaging around 36mpg in Accord on the highway lately, we get 32ish in our CRV.
 

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FYI 2016 EX-V6 and Touring Edition Accords still come with 6-speed auto, other models get the CVT. I've never driven a CVT Accord, but Touring feels much tighter than previous Accords we've owned, shifts predictably and hauls butt with a little encouragement. :)
You are correct sir... I test drove a Touring V6 last week while my wife's vehicle got an oil change. That is one quick sedan!!!
 

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I cannot stand the Econ mode/button [...] strangely it doesn't seem to effect economy much for my driving style. I've been averaging around 36mpg in Accord on the highway lately, we get 32ish in our CRV.
I find that I prefer ECON on because it keeps engine revs lower for a more relaxed drive. I've been unable to detect any difference in fuel economy. My brother claims slightly better fuel economy with ECON off in his 2015 and 2016 Civics. I'm finding it easy to meet or beat the CR-V's 34 MPG highway rating even on my mixed, 15-mile commute to work. My in-town, multiple-stop, weekend shopping trips, pull the average down to about 30, however.
 

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I find that I prefer ECON on because it keeps engine revs lower for a more relaxed drive. I've been unable to detect any difference in fuel economy. My brother claims slightly better fuel economy with ECON off in his 2015 and 2016 Civics. I'm finding it easy to meet or beat the CR-V's 34 MPG highway rating even on my mixed, 15-mile commute to work. My in-town, multiple-stop, weekend shopping trips, pull the average down to about 30, however.
It may help a little bit then, as I drive my wife's CRV at a pretty relaxed pace and normally fall a little less than 34 unless it's all highway, around 28 in town. I think if I'd not driven her car with Econ off for so long, I could probably use it more often.

There's something wrong with me related to systems like that on automobiles... I want the driving experience to be as "pure" and involving as it can be. I prefer manual transmissions, manual steering, no abs.... so for anything that affects the experience, I tend to shy away from it. Even if it's something like stability control, Econ, lane departure warning, etc, that's a good thing, I tend to try and dumb it down (to my level, my wife usually adds in). ha!
 

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I have really started enjoying the Accord. I was only half heartedly thinking about going car shopping the end of this year, but driving this 2016 Accord is likely going to cement that. I am going to look really hard at the Crosstour at this point. I just wish the V6 didn't have VCM.
 

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I have really started enjoying the Accord. I was only half heartedly thinking about going car shopping the end of this year, but driving this 2016 Accord is likely going to cement that. I am going to look really hard at the Crosstour at this point. I just wish the V6 didn't have VCM.
Shame on Honda for loaning me a new CR-V to drive during the Ridgeline recall. I've grown quite fond of it. :)

I assume you'll be looking at used Crosstours since they have been discontinued?
 

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Shame on Honda for loaning me a new CR-V to drive during the Ridgeline recall. I've grown quite fond of it. :)

I assume you'll be looking at used Crosstours since they have been discontinued?
Yes, I prefer to buy brand new vehicles but could hopefully find a 2014/15 with very few miles on it would be fine too.

We will be looking at others like the CRV and CX5 and a few others before we buy.
 

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Yes, I prefer to buy brand new vehicles but could hopefully find a 2014/15 with very few miles on it would be fine too.

We will be looking at others like the CRV and CX5 and a few others before we buy.
We started looking at a Mazda dealer at the Cx-5, I loved it, but the small dealer here was retarded on price. There are a bunch of great midsize crossovers out there now for sure. Do they still make the Toyota Venza wagon? I liked the crosstour and always wondered since the make those in AWD, why they wouldn't make an Odyssey with AWD?

Anyways, I'm hoping to find either a 2007+ Toyota 4wd 4Runner or a low mileage Ridgeline, 2009-2011 (newer this time and one I can still pay cash for), once the airbag fiasco is over and done with. My only problem is it took me forever to find the RL I've got. haha
 
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