Well after reading, watching, and waiting I finally bit the bullet. I went in to my local dealer that I had been working with for the last couple of months armed with the knowledge and printouts from this forum. I was asking for $500 over invoice on a Silver RTL S/R. After about an hour of negotiating he came back with his best offer of $1000 over invoice. I told him I was sticking to the $500 over invoice because I knew people where getting that price. He threw one of those salesman fits and got up and walked away. Luckily so did I. I used the advice of some of the members here and emailed all the Honda dealers (6) that I would be willing to drive too saying I was willing to buy at $500 over invoice today. The next morning I had 3 messages from different dealers. 2 Saying they could not go that low and one saying I had a deal. I drove out there within a couple of hours and had my new Silver RTL S/R at $500 over invoice. This had to be the easiest buying experience I ever had. Thanks to all the members here for posting exellent information.