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2010 RT - Bali Blue
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Discussion Starter #1
I honestly did not think I would see the day with a V6 with a turbo would come out of Honda. I thought the C20AT was a one hit wonder.
Though I do not see myself financially investing in this in the near future, I am genuinely thrilled and extremely excited to learn about the engine and its management system.


Very informative video, out of the 7 I was glued to yesterday.

 

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I held back on my excitement when Acura released the concept last year. I rolled my eyes when they said it was "very close to production ready" in its concept form. I didn't want to be disappointed like I have been in the past with Honda/Acura concepts that looked great but were severely toned down in production form with the same engines and power numbers as the base version. I have to say I'm impressed. This car looks fabulous and I'm very excited to see it in person. Even the 2.0T version looks to be a very nice little performer with strong power numbers, the 10AT, and AWD. But, the 3.0TT is the real thing I'll be waiting for. I have to think that it would need to put out at least 350hp/tq to compete with the true sports sedans it's trying to benchmark such as BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Audi S, and the like. Personally, I'd love to see the power number start with a "4" and have matching torque usable way down in the RPM range. It's time Honda/Acura got back to competing again rather than making boring transportation machines.
 
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But, the 3.0TT is the real thing I'll be waiting for. I have to think that it would need to put out at least 350hp/tq to compete with the true sports sedans it's trying to benchmark such as BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Audi S, and the like. Personally, I'd love to see the power number start with a "4" and have matching torque usable way down in the RPM range.
Honda said in the press release that the 3.0T (not TT - there's just a single turbocharger) produces more than 50% more torque than the 3.5L which developed 267 lb-ft. This suggests the 3.0T will output at least 400 lb-ft.

The 2.0T in the RDX and TLX produces 136 HP/L and so does the 1.5T in the Civic Si. If the 3.0T did the same, it would produce 408 HP. Because there's more friction in a V6 (more cylinders, bearings, cam shafts, idlers, etc.), the HP/L figure may not be quite as high so I would expect the 3.0T to put out around 380 HP.
 

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Honda said in the press release that the 3.0T (not TT - there's just a single turbocharger) produces more than 50% more torque than the 3.5L which developed 267 lb-ft. This suggests the 3.0T will output at least 400 lb-ft.

The 2.0T in the RDX and TLX produces 136 HP/L and so does the 1.5T in the Civic Si. If the 3.0T did the same, it would produce 408 HP. Because there's more friction in a V6 (more cylinders, bearings, cam shafts, idlers, etc.), the HP/L figure may not be quite as high so I would expect the 3.0T to put out around 380 HP.
I have one issue with Acura's torque statement about the 3.0T. They said 50% more low-end torque. That's rather vague. That could be torque just off idle, which would be closer to 200-ish, so then we're talking 300-ish for the 3.0T....
 

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2010 RT - Bali Blue
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Discussion Starter #7
The NSX is crown of Acura and that makes 406 lb-fts with 500hp. This is just the engine, disregarding the numbers with the electric motors' assist.

That said, I highly doubt that the TLX Type-S will be anything close to 400lb-ft; last thing they want is a lower trim vehicle of their own brand rivaling their top tier vehicle. I believe the 300-350 figure is very reasonable and Since it is only a single turbo, it seems rather feasible. I also tend to believe that since it probably would have an electronic wastegate, they will effectively manage those numbers to be rather conservative. With the RL being dead, I believe the efforts are put into the TLX & its Type-S.
 

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Honda said in the press release that the 3.0T (not TT - there's just a single turbocharger) produces more than 50% more torque than the 3.5L which developed 267 lb-ft. This suggests the 3.0T will output at least 400 lb-ft.

The 2.0T in the RDX and TLX produces 136 HP/L and so does the 1.5T in the Civic Si. If the 3.0T did the same, it would produce 408 HP. Because there's more friction in a V6 (more cylinders, bearings, cam shafts, idlers, etc.), the HP/L figure may not be quite as high so I would expect the 3.0T to put out around 380 HP.
Slip of the fat finger when typing the two T’s. I think your reasoning and math are sound. However, as much as I’m REALLY hoping the hp number starts with a 4, I’m not holding my breath. The 380 number sounds about right with around 350 tq. Nevertheless, power is only one of the factors the go into how good this car will be. The handling, steering feel, comfort, tech, and reliability are all going to come into play. Acura really can’t afford to have this car be anything but great after basically a decade of subpar offerings.
 

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Return of the Integra?

 

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It's easy
Return of the Integra?

The biggest issue I have with the current ILX is that it's based on the previous generation Civic platform that debuted in 2011 - that puppy is old and it shows.
 

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2010 RT - Bali Blue
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Discussion Starter #11
I am going to expand and speculate more on @longboat article. Currently we have the ILX, TLX, RLX, RDX, MDX and NSX on sale.

Below information is for current models acquired through manufacturer press release kits.

ILX (2019+)
  • uses a 2.4L NA making 201HP @6800 and 180lb-ft @ 3600.
  • This K24 has a 87mm bore and 99.1mm stroke. By no means is this motor exciting.
  • uses a 8-spd DCT WITH a Torque converter only in a FWD format
  • In my opinion, this vehicle almost as exciting as watching paint dry.
MDX (2017+)
  • The base and SH-AWD units run a 3.5L V6 making 290HP @ 6200 and [email protected] Both use a 9spd unit with FWD & AWD configurations. Not a head turner here
  • The Hybrid with SH-AWD is a unique one. It has a 3.0L V6 making 257HP @ 6300 and 218lb-ft @ 5000rpm mated to the same 7SPD DCT in the RLX. What is special about this 3.0L is that it is a 86x86mm bore x stroke unit. This is the similar bore to stroke ratio used in the high revving K20 motors and having a shorter stroke is always best for revving high.
  • the Hybrid version uses twin motors in the rear, just like the RLX. However, the total rated output is only 321HP and 289lb-ft.with the front electric motor makes 47hp and the rear makes a total of 72HP. I believe this was an intentional reduction of total power to keep the RLX at the top of the lineup.
  • According to Acura, the 7DCT closely resembles the NSX 9DCT. One thing to note is that the DCT does not have a torque converter.
RLX (2018+):
  • We know this one is done for and no new generation is planned for. Currently the P-AWS version runs a 3.5L direct injection motor mated to a 10spd FWD unit. The 10spd is also in the Odyssey and Accord in the FWD fashion.
  • The Sport Hybrid (SH-AWD) uses a 3.5L V6, BUT uses a 7spd DCT with an integrated electric motor to drive the front wheels only and a pair of rear motors for the rear wheels. In this configuration, the engine alone produces 310HP @ 6500rpm & 273lb-ft @ 4700. The front electric motor makes 47hp and the rear makes a total of 72HP. The front motor is ATF cooled.
  • With the combined output (gas engine & electric) it makes 377HP and 341lb-ft. This is our starting benchmark.
NSX (2019+)
  • This uses a 3.5L TT DOHC unit making 500HP @ 6500-7500 and 406lb-ft @ 2000-6000.
  • With the use of two motors in the front, the total output is 570HP and 476lb-ft. Cream of the crop
  • uses a 9spd DCT to drive the rear wheels. ALso incorporates an electric motor rated at 47HP @ 3000 and 109lb-ft @ 500-2000. Though the transmission integrated motor is the same power output as the RLX & MDX, this one is water cooled.
RDX (2019+)
  • Uses a 2.0T making 272HP @ 6500 and 280lb-ft @ 1600-4500 in FWD & AWD configuration.
  • Uses a 86 x 85.9mm (bore x stroke ) on the motor, similar to the K20s and the 30.L V6 on the MDX Hybrid.
  • Uses a 10spd in the FWD or SH-AWD configuration. Same 10spd in other models, with a different final drive ration and a little AWD variation.
TLX (2019+):
  • Has a 2.4L making [email protected] and 182lb-ft @ 4500 in a FWD format with 8DCT. Very similar to the ILX offering
  • Has 3.5L making 290HP @ 6200 and 267 lb-ft @ 4500 mated to a 9sdp in both FWD and AWD formats. Same J35Y6 engine, but rated higher due to using Premium fuel and different programming.
  • This is the only AWD platform using a traditional rear differential in the current line up.
Above listing of specs are just my perspective window to the various models using various approaches to accomplish a goal. The upcoming TLX generation, from a drivetrain perspective, will be a holistic mix of current and the future; if that makes sense. With the RLX leaving the lineup, the Type-S will surely be the one step below NSX. The parts bin has proved to be more useful in many ways and using them in various platforms only identifies its strengths and weakness, especially their flexibility in adapting to various needs and buyer markets.

If the ILX is to follow in the footsteps to get itself cleaned up, which it does need, then looking a next step evolution of a RSX-Type-S only in a 4-door clothing, would not be far fetched. However, Integra name is highlight unlikely. It would mean that the names such as the Vigor and Legend were near to heart. When Acura began to differentiate itself from its Japanese Honda counterparts, the deliberate efforts of renaming the models made sense.
 

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So which route is Honda going to take with the next gen Pilot?

Keep the 3.5,
Borrow from the RLX/MDX hybrid
Turbo with a 2.0 or 3.0
Multiple engine choices
Something else
 

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2010 RT - Bali Blue
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Discussion Starter #13
I do not want to deter too much from the Type-S and its technology, but the next gen Pilot would have to either continue the way it is, or follow in the footsteps of the upcoming MDX.
  • Hybrid technology is too expensive and even the current gen MDX Hybrid is very expensive, complicated and many complain about issues with it.
  • For the 2.0T to work, it would then need the 10spd AWD, as it is the next logical move as the Odyssey platform gave up the 9spd in all trims. However, the 10spd is yet to be mated to a vehicle that can tow 5000lbs. On the other side of the coin, I do not think Honda/Acura would go for a 4-cyl in their large vehicle platforms.
  • 3.0T will be out of the question and I would imagine a J35 DI variant would propel it with a traditional style transfer case and rear differential, since the MDX Hybrid with rear motors cant tow anything and has no tow rating.
 

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Maybe an Acura Ridgeline...

So, isn't the new Acura hybrid platform supposed to be 3.0L V6 w/electric? I'm guessing same V6 sans turbos?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Meh. That's certainly not awful, but I was hoping for a bit more.
I am sure, just like the Type-R, Hondata will get its hand on it and with few hundred bucks, they will be cranking out 150hp+ conservatively.

Maybe an Acura Ridgeline...

So, isn't the new Acura hybrid platform supposed to be 3.0L V6 w/electric? I'm guessing same V6 sans turbos?
Currently, the mainstream 3.0L V6 in the Hybrids are the J30Y1s (in the MDX and RLX). This is a unique block because it uses a square combustion chamber; 86mm x 86mm (bore x stroke) and was initially made and used for the Chinese market RDX. This motor is still the traditional J-series family with a 60deg cylinder bank angle.
Not the same ones as the JNC1 which is the current gen Acura NSX 75deg DOHC engine, made in collaboration with Cosworth.

I am not sure what the future would hold for the MDX in regards to the hybrid tech as the TLX does not currently have any hybrid option, and I would imagine the upcoming MDX would be a technological evolution of the TLX.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I would bet underrated. Are there any current Honda/Acuras that are not testing their rated engine HP/TQ at the wheels?
None of the advertised HP/TQ numbers are at the wheels. This goes to automakers across the board.
There are many youtube videos of civics and Accords on the dyno doing baseline stock dyno numbers. The HP numbers are the wheels are around the traditional drive line loss percentage.
 

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I've never known Honda to get crazy with power numbers in a passenger vehicle. CTR & NSX are about as wild as they get.

OTOH, I get enjoyment from fully utilizing the stock power that Honda does provide, as it is quite manageable. I guess it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow, and still stay out of jail. 😁
 
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