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I think vehicles produced between the mid-90s and 2009 were a peak for automotive reliablity over the long term. The manufacturing processes were all improved to the point that they could handle the product's complexity. Given the exponential increase in automotive complexity over the past decade, reliability over the long term is slipping. The engine mounts alone are complex, multidiscipline engineering operations.
 

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Discussion Starter #284
I think vehicles produced between the mid-90s and 2009 were a peak for automotive reliablity over the long term. The manufacturing processes were all improved to the point that they could handle the product's complexity. Given the exponential increase in automotive complexity over the past decade, reliability over the long term is slipping. The engine mounts alone are complex, multidiscipline engineering operations.
Data from J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study suggests otherwise. According to them, around 2010 was the most reliable model year for the industry and around 2011 was the most reliable for Honda since this study began. It appears Hondas since around the 2016 model year have been experiencing more problems than the industry average.

Over the last four years, the industry average has been improving while Honda hasn't.

Industry average in blue. Honda in green. Lower is better.

399774
 

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Data from J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study suggests otherwise...
Thanks, Roger. That's interesting, but is it reliability over the long term?

Also bear in mind the costs of repairs when they do happen. Component complexity has made them more expensive, so even when they break down less often, when they do it hurts.

However, I should admit explicitly that I'm only speaking from my impressions, and I don't have any data one way or the other.
 

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Likely highly-dependent on individual vehicles, also.

Example: 2002 Honda Accord...had issues with the 5AT failing behind the 3.5L V6 (this also occurred in the Odyssey and several other models, IIRC.

OTOH, i had a 2002 Accord with the manual transmission. In the 18 years that i drove the car as a daily driver, the only failures were

1) the clock light would burn out about every 40-50k miles. Five minutes and a $3 bulb fixed it.

2) i think i blew the internal amps on the radio, because it would sound a little muddy when i cranked the volume. Also, the factory CD player would start skipping after a few songs. I usually used a BT 2 RF adapter to play mp3s off my phone, so didn't really notice it.

3) Takata airbag recall, fixed for free

4) SRS light came on, took it in for repair in 2018, fixed for free under Honda's lifetime belts & buckles warranty, which they no longer offer.

On my wife's 2008 Accord with V6 and 5AT, so far have had:

1) Takata airbag recall

2) TSB on rear brakes (was charged for the repair & replacement work)

Thus far, no issues with the 5AT or the 3-4-5 VCM (which was supposedly problematic for that vintage). Knock on wood...
 

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Discussion Starter #287
Thanks, Roger. That's interesting, but is it reliability over the long term?
The Vehicle Dependability Study measures the number of problems experienced per 100 vehicles during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old model-year vehicles. For example, the 2019 study measures the number of problems in model year 2016 vehicles in their third year. This study is in contrast to their Initial Quality Study that counts the number of problems experienced in the first 90 days of ownership.

There are no longer dramatic differences in the dependability of three year-old vehicles from the best to the worst until you get down to Volvo, Chrysler, Land Rover, and Jaguar which have twice as many problem as Genesis, Lexus, Buick, Porsche, and Toyota.
 

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I have to agree

Part of the POS nature was the fact that Ford didn't update or improve them during the final 10 years of production. Lipstick on a pig doesn't count
You got that right.. Loved my 01 Ranger for 16 years until my life style changed and the RL became the better choice. Cannot figure how Ford who has the best selling full size forever could not do the same with the Ranger. Yet Toyota cannot dent the Big 3 full size but dominates the midsize market. Zroger help please 🙏
 

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I had a marketing professor way back say that the best predictive indicator for consumer behavior is prior purchase. How many G2 owners are graduating from a G1? How many consumers graduating from one Honda model to another? Unless someone has a really bad experience with a vehicle or brand, they will more likely than not prefer a repeat purchase, model or brand. The internal decision process is shorter due to trust through a prior experience - devil known is better than devil unknown. If circumstances change or someone has a bad experience and then they are willing to risk something different.
 

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Discussion Starter #290
I had a marketing professor way back say that the best predictive indicator for consumer behavior is prior purchase. How many G2 owners are graduating from a G1? How many consumers graduating from one Honda model to another? Unless someone has a really bad experience with a vehicle or brand, they will more likely than not prefer a repeat purchase, model or brand. The internal decision process is shorter due to trust through a prior experience - devil known is better than devil unknown. If circumstances change or someone has a bad experience and then they are willing to risk something different.
Example: Me.

I bought my first Honda in 2006 and had a run of great experiences - virtually no warranty repairs and top-notch resale value. This kept me coming back for more time and time again.

My last few Hondas have had more problems than any Ford, GM, or Chrysler I owned in the 80's and 90's. Sine my recent experience with my 2019 Ridgeline's transmission replacement, water leaks, and other problems, I've wanting to abandon the brand.
 

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Example: Me.

I bought my first Honda in 2006 and had a run of great experiences - virtually no warranty repairs and top-notch resale value. This kept me coming back for more time and time again.

My last few Hondas have had more problems than any Ford, GM, or Chrysler I owned in the 80's and 90's. Sine my recent experience with my 2019 Ridgeline's transmission replacement, water leaks, and other problems, I've wanting to abandon the brand.
And I'm not interested in upgrading myself. Fortunately, my 2006 and 2008 are both still running reliably and without issue. Coming up on the first major mx event on the Ridge as I approach 120k miles.

I honestly don't know what I'd buy today if I were forced into a situation where I had to replace my Ridgeline (or Pilot, for that matter).
 

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And I'm not interested in upgrading myself. Fortunately, my 2006 and 2008 are both still running reliably and without issue. Coming up on the first major mx event on the Ridge as I approach 120k miles.

I honestly don't know what I'd buy today if I were forced into a situation where I had to replace my Ridgeline (or Pilot, for that matter).
I remember how frustrated and flat out angry I was when my 1st new car, an 03 Dodge Dakota suffered from a multitude of issues. Dealers were no help what so-ever. What we have to remember is there are more Ridgeline owners than there are members of this forum, and we're only hearing gripes from a relatively small percentage of owners. I have a family member who is a 15+ year veteran Honda tech. He says that their while dealer does not sell very many RL's (next closest dealer outsells them 3-1), they have several 1st and 2nd gen service customers. When I've asked him about water leaks and some of the other issues ROC members have posted about, he said that while the early 1st gen's had a couple of common leaking points, he's not heard of any common water leaks with the 2nd gen. Common complaints with the 2nd gen. and Pilot are with the infotainment system and inconsistencies with the transmissions shifting. He said that the transmission's adaptive learning is usually the cause of inconsistencies and the infotainment system "just flat out sucks".

While I agree that Honda's quality is nowhere near what it used to be. Outside of hard failures such as water leaks and actual malfunctioning transmissions (not programming issues) like zroger experienced, I have to wonder just how accurate the surveys really are.
 

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Of my 3 current Honda vehicles, 2 of them leak water. The Civic doesn't really count because I don't know its history.. but evidence indicates it's had a hard life (but refuses to die and just keeps on running... drives straight... no issues... as it approaches 180k indicated miles). The Ridgeline water leak wasn't fixed until I paid for the right front fender to be pulled to check for water. That's when they found issues with seam sealant and since that repair, I haven't found any more water leaks. Yet.

Regardless, when you add up declining quality, VCM (which I still despise), multiple reports of overheating transmissions, styling (which I'm still not crazy about on the g2 Ridge), electronic issues, etc., I'm not excited about another Honda and am thankful I'm not shopping.

That being said, I still don't know of another vehicle out there that meets my needs as well as the Honda Ridgeline. So there's that. And I'm not sure other mfgs are any better with quality/reliability issues for someone like me who tends to buy and hold for the long term. It's just that Honda has fallen and has yet to pick themselves back up and climb back up on their pedestal. I wish they'd pick up the pace.
 
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