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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I saw a convincing story about the need for this dreadful problem to be rectified on CNN today. It makes so glad that I got the backup camera.

Safety Advocates Decry Back-Over Deaths
Solutions Sought For Blind Spots
By Greg Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 28, 2005; A08

Nearly 100 children under age 4 were hit and killed while walking or riding bikes on U.S.
roadways last year. Almost the same number died in parking lots and driveways when relatives
or family friends accidentally backed over them, but those deaths went uncounted by federal
regulators, safety advocates said.

The government agency that ensures traffic safety doesn't track victims of back-over accidents,
usually small children run over by family members who don't see them behind minivans and
SUVs with limited rear visibility. The number of such deaths nationwide has averaged at least
two a week for the past couple of years, according to a children's safety group that compiles
numbers from media coverage.

An unexplained spike in the incidents has occurred this month, according to Janette Fennell,
founder of the advocacy group Kids and Cars. Fennell has registered 14 back-over deaths in the
past three weeks, most involving very young children who died from their injuries: a 17-month-
old Wisconsin boy backed over by his uncle during a family birthday party, a 14-month-old
Texas girl backed over by her grandmother in the driveway, a 2-year-old South Carolina girl
backed over by her father.

Safety advocates say there are relatively simple and inexpensive ways to solve the problem,
including placing small cameras on rear bumpers. Legislation before Congress would require the
government to study the issue and the auto industry to take steps to address it.
"This is fixable," said Sally Greenberg of Consumers Union, which publishes Consumer Reports
magazine. "Every year, year in and year out, we're going to see many, many children backed
over and killed unless we do something."

Cases such as that of Adrianna Clemens, a 2-year-old Texas girl run over in October by her
father as he backed his SUV out of the garage. "It's the worst nightmare a parent can ever
experience. Nobody wants to be walking in my shoes," said her mother, Rachel Clemens, who
has begun a campaign to push for legislation requiring rear visibility standards in the auto
industry. "We have got to save the lives of these children. It has become an epidemic and it has
to be stopped," she said.

A Consumer Reports study last year found that some vehicles have rear blinds spots as deep as
50 feet, with larger trucks and vans generally worse than cars. Automakers say they are
constantly working to minimize blind spots and gradually introducing technology such as sensors and rear-viewing cameras to give drivers more information, but they oppose legislation to make such steps mandatory.

"What's going to drive the increase of these safety technologies in the marketplace is consumer
demand," said Eron Shosteck, spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. "The
technology will become more and more prevalent as more consumers see the utility of it and
demand it, and are willing to pay for it."

Nearly 900,000 new vehicles sold in the United States last year -- out of almost 17 million total - - included some kind of "parking sensor" that beeps to warn of obstacles to the rear, according to Ward's Communications, an automotive statistics clearinghouse.
That technology is considered a convenience and not a safety feature, because it cannot reliably detect a small child, Shosteck said.

A few 2005 models -- including some by Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Toyota and Honda -- offer rear-
viewing cameras with displays on the dashboard, often as standard equipment, according to
Edmunds.com. As optional equipment, such cameras can cost $1,000 to $2,000, Shosteck said.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which compiles statistics about traffic
fatalities and oversees auto safety, has had difficulty pinning down the scope of the back-over
problem because there is no central repository of information about the incidents, agency
spokeswoman Liz Neblett said. A recent NHTSA study of 1998 death certificates from selected
states estimated that 120 people die annually from accidental back-overs, mostly young children or the very elderly.

NHTSA is preparing a regulation that would set back-up safety standards for large, commercial-
sized trucks, Neblett said, but it is not prepared to require changes from the auto industry.
"The technology for the smaller vehicles is extremely expensive and not foolproof, and to
mandate it at this point might give drivers a false sense of security," she said. "So we're going to continue to look at the problems and at the systems."
Safety advocate Fennell, who tracks such cases through media reports and from a network of
emergency services groups, said too many lives are at stake for further delay. While a bipartisan Senate bill introduced by Ohio Republican Mike DeWine would require NHTSA to study the problem, Fennell is lobbying members of Congress to force the agency to set new safety standards.

U.S. Rep. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.) introduced such a bill last year after hearing from a constituent
who had backed over his own child. While that bill failed, King is rounding up bipartisan support
for a similar measure this year. "When you talk to people about it, they always say, 'Why not?' "
King said. "It makes common sense. It crosses party and ideological lines. . . . It's really God's
work on this one."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company
 

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I have two children, ages 10 and 13. We have always had other kids at my house and continue to do so today. I had this same concern when they were little. My solution? I always had another adult out there "making sure" where the kids were and holding the littlest ones. If I was the only adult and I needed to move the car I had them pile in with me while I moved it. I am an adult and it is my responsibility! If it took an extra few minutes, so be it. My neighbors also started doing this after watching me. Some argued that "what if you are going somewhere and nobody else is home" scenario. I replied, "Then who is going to watch the little kids?" I feel really bad for the adults that run over the little ones in a driveway.:(
 
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Thanks for posting this Truckin'. I think it's a good reminder that as adults with the responsibility of driving privileges, we need to think about this more often.
I too, like hiPSI, have another adult hold the kids. Heck I even do that if the girls ( dogs ) are outside when someone is coming or going. It's just right. And I also pile the kids in with me if no one is there to help. My kids loved it when they were little. I use to make a quick trip around the block so they thought they got something out of the deal!!
Good..no GREAT post.
Thanks dear heart!!:)
 

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I found an additional good practice (to protect the neighbors kids) is to always honk your horn prior to backing up. This was standard practice at every mine site I have worked at and is a good way to alert people in the immediate area that your truck is going to move in reverse.
 

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Where we currently live, we have really no children to worry about. However, we are wanting children and if we do have them, I will, without doubt, get the rear camera.

Having said that, those folks who mentioned that it is always the adult's responsibility are right. I liked the suggestions made and will keep them in mind if we are not at a point where we can get the camera.

I cannot imagine the heartache that must accompany running over a small child :(
 

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Just out of curiosity, for those with the backup camera. Since there is no rear window defogger on the Ridgelines, how does the camera work for you in cold early mornings when backing up. I mean if the lens is fogged up does it cloud your rear viewing? This maybe a dumb question, but I was just wondering.:confused:
 
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fatboy said:
Just out of curiosity, for those with the backup camera. Since there is no rear window defogger on the Ridgelines, how does the camera work for you in cold early mornings when backing up. I mean if the lens is fogged up does it cloud your rear viewing? This maybe a dumb question, but I was just wondering.:confused:
There is no dumb question on the ROC. Sounds like a great question. I don't have one but I have considered getting it but I'm not crazy about it being on my tailgate.
I'm looking forward to the answer.
 

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fatboy said:
Just out of curiosity, for those with the backup camera. Since there is no rear window defogger on the Ridgelines, how does the camera work for you in cold early mornings when backing up. I mean if the lens is fogged up does it cloud your rear viewing? This maybe a dumb question, but I was just wondering.:confused:
Um, the camera's not on the rear window, for one thing... it's attached to the tailgate. It faces down & back, and is kinda covered by its own case. I've never seen it fogged up or anything, but then again, I live in SoCal. :rolleyes:

I'd heard the statistic about there being a blind spot of up to 50 feet behind some vehicles (I believe it was the Chevy Suburban; I can look it up if anyone's curious). Unfortunately, walking behind the car doesn't help much -- 50 feet is a lot of space for someone to enter in the time that you get into the car, start the car, fasten seat belts, and start to move.

Needless to say, the backup camera takes care of all this for me. Backup sensors are a good alternative for people without Navi.
 

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Rant On-

I watched the same program and it really bugs me when I see things like this. It really reminded me of the 60 Minutes GM exploding gas tank story several years ago. The tone of the story was to blame manufactures 100% and completely downplay personal responsibility. There was also a VERY obvious anti SUV / Truck slant. They take the obvious and twist it into something sinister. This sounds horrible but 100 deaths out of how many MILLIONS of cars backing up every year is HARDLY an epidemic. EVERYONE knows that all vehicles, not just trucks and SUVs, have blind spots. It's one of the first things they teach you in Drivers Ed. CNN finds some idiot that claims to have no idea that she wouldn't be able to see a 24" pylon placed behind the bumper of her Suburban and we should all be outraged at GM. They only briefly touched on the fact that the size of the blind spot is very dependent on the height of the driver and that there are MANY OEM and Aftermarket accessories to aid in backing up...but don't worry about that, just blame the big, bad, SUVs and auto manufactures!

-Rant Off

Having said all the above, I have a NAV system and the Back-up Cam. While I was originally draw to it by the "cool quotient", after a week of driving my truck, I new it was difficult to see backing up. I'm smart enough to understand that when backing up a vehicle, you need to make DARN sure that there is nothing behind you and that just glancing in the mirrors isn't always enough. I've also taken the time to show my boys how people in cars can't see them. I've put them in the driver seat (on a couple of telephone books) and showed them how they can't see me in the mirrors behind the truck.

As far as details about how the back-up cam works, here are some observations.

1) The back up cam doesn't work until the Nav system is fully booted. Many times, I get the truck started and I'm ready to back up but the cam isn't on yet.
2) The dynamic rage of the camera is very limited. In bright sun, shadows turn completely black. Many times, the shadow of the truck itself produces a "blind spot" so to speak where the cam simply can't see into the shadow.
3) You've seen the "objects in mirror are closer than they appear" sticker on mirrors right? We'll this is taken to new extremes with the back up cam. Distance is EXTREMELY distorted and hard to judge. When I first got the cam installed, it pointed so far down that the bumper was in the picture. I repositioned it up so I could see farther back but then because of the distorted distance, It was worse. I had no frame of reference. When the cam looked like I was a couple of feet away from something, I really was only inches. I immediately re-positioned the cam so I just barely see the bumper in the picture so now I know how close the bumper is to things.
4) The cam works well in the dark. The picture turns almost black and white but there is enough illumination from the backup / brake lights to see what’s going on. I don't think this is an IR thing...just that the color is the first to go when light levels drop.
5) I've not encountered any fog / frost on my cam but it has gotten dirty / wet. When this happens, you just see a big rain drop or dirt spot on the picture. I just hop out and wipe it off with my finger.
6) I'm not crazy about how it looks on the tailgate. They don't center it and the cover isn't painted. For my Black RL, it looks OK I guess but if I had another color, I'd defiantly want the cover painted to match.
7) Even though I have the cam, I still have to use the mirrors a lot. It's not a substitute.

While I support people doing everything they can to make their vehical safer, I don't support people taking away personal responsibility and pointing the blame for accidents on others.
 

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Personally I like the redundancy of having both the sensors and the camera. I have both installed on my Ridgeline as well as on my 2005 Ody. A liitle story to share. . .

My wife was at a playgroup with our kids. As she was leaving (in the Ody), a couple of the moms were standing around in the parking lot at the rear end of another car about 1 car width from where the Ody was parked. My wife checked, double-checked, and looked at the camera view before she started to back out. She began to back out very slowly and was looking over her left shoulder to check the view for any approaching vehicles when one the the kids (age around 2) that was standing with the group of moms that I mentioned before ran away from his mother and went behind the Ody from the right. The sensors went off and my wife stopped immediately (she was backing out and very slowly at that). She looked at the camera screen to see the child run behind the van. She did not hit him because the sensors warned her that something was behind the van. I'm very glad that we had the sensors installed on the van.. There was no question that I would get both installed on the Ridgeline.
 

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All very good points, zero and ruffles.

Lack o' personal responsibility is going to be the end of us all. Did you guys see that article about the guy who's suing Home Depot because some prankster (who didn't work at HD, obviously) put glue on a toilet seat and he got stuck to it? He even acknowledges that it wasn't Home Depot's fault... but everyone's gotta sue someone eventually, I guess... It's a "sue or be sued" world... :(
 

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Truckin' said:
I saw a convincing story about the need for this dreadful problem to be rectified on CNN today. It makes so glad that I got the backup camera.
There was an article in the local paper recently about a 3 year old girl that was run over by the family SUV while her father was cutting the grass. The little girl found the car keys in the cup holder inserted them into the ignition and turned it. Next thing she knew the car was rolling, she opened the door and screamed for her father and fell. The corner's jury ruled this an accident.

Backup cameras or sensors wouldn't work in this case, but taking the keys out of the car would.

I wish I would have gotten a backup camera (and the navi), or the sensors. I would be crushed if something happened to my son or my dog. I will be looking for another solution for the backup sensors, just not sure which direction to go. I thought I saw a thread around here of a step bumper that went into the trailer hitch that had some type of sensor. If anyone knows of that thread please let me know.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I did not take this news story to be so much to blame the manufacturer as it was a plea to increase the use of available technology to help all of us avoid the devastating tragedy of backing over a child. The wicked part of this tragedy is that it is most often a close relative that is driving. I cannot imagine trying to live the rest of my life with that kind of remorse.

Even with vigilance and a routine of double checking, small children slip away and have no concept of the danger, they just want to go or to wave bye to the departing parent.

This story dramatically demonstrated that the blind spot can be huge. It's a good reminder for people who don't have the available technology installed to be extra careful. It might prompt a few more to pay for the addition of back up sensors or cameras. If more manufacturers start including on or the other or both as standard equipment that would be grand in my opinion. Some will argue about the price increases. Go ahead and have your say. It is a price increase I would gladly pay, obviously, because I paid a premium to have it added post manufacturing.
 

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Truckin' said:
I did not take this news story to be so much to blame the manufacturer as it was a plea to increase the use of available technology to help all of us avoid the devastating tragedy of backing over a child. The wicked part of this tragedy is that it is most often a close relative that is driving. I cannot imagine trying to live the rest of my life with that kind of remorse.

Even with vigilance and a routine of double checking, small children slip away and have no concept of the danger, they just want to go or to wave bye to the departing parent.

This story dramatically demonstrated that the blind spot can be huge. It's a good reminder for people who don't have the available technology installed to be extra careful. It might prompt a few more to pay for the addition of back up sensors or cameras. If more manufacturers start including on or the other or both as standard equipment that would be grand in my opinion. Some will argue about the price increases. Go ahead and have your say. It is a price increase I would gladly pay, obviously, because I paid a premium to have it added post manufacturing.
I see in your tag you have a tubular hitch step/bumper, if you don't mind me asking where did you get it? I have seen one somewhere that had a backup sensor in it and I can't seem to find that thread again.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
14ridgeln said:
I see in your tag you have a tubular hitch step/bumper, if you don't mind me asking where did you get it? I have seen one somewhere that had a backup sensor in it and I can't seem to find that thread again.
I got it at AutoSport. It is a nice boost to get into the bed. I don't know if y have the backup sensor, but they have a lot of functional and fun accessories. Delivery has been swift.

http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm?fa=p&pid=1358&cid=66

I just searched dogpile for you and came up with this:

http://www.hitchcam.com/

BTW, both of your babies are precious.
 
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14ridgeln said:
There was an article in the local paper recently about a 3 year old girl that was run over by the family SUV while her father was cutting the grass. The little girl found the car keys in the cup holder inserted them into the ignition and turned it. Next thing she knew the car was rolling, she opened the door and screamed for her father and fell. The corner's jury ruled this an accident.

Backup cameras or sensors wouldn't work in this case, but taking the keys out of the car would.

I wish I would have gotten a backup camera (and the navi), or the sensors. I would be crushed if something happened to my son or my dog. I will be looking for another solution for the backup sensors, just not sure which direction to go. I thought I saw a thread around here of a step bumper that went into the trailer hitch that had some type of sensor. If anyone knows of that thread please let me know.

Thanks.
Such an innocent baby with such a gentle giant!!
Thanks for sharing your precious moments with us!!
I have had my share of GS's and I would not trade those years for anything. :)
 

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14ridgeln said:
There was an article in the local paper recently about a 3 year old girl that was run over by the family SUV while her father was cutting the grass. The little girl found the car keys in the cup holder inserted them into the ignition and turned it. Next thing she knew the car was rolling, she opened the door and screamed for her father and fell. The corner's jury ruled this an accident.

Backup cameras or sensors wouldn't work in this case, but taking the keys out of the car would.

I wish I would have gotten a backup camera (and the navi), or the sensors. I would be crushed if something happened to my son or my dog. I will be looking for another solution for the backup sensors, just not sure which direction to go. I thought I saw a thread around here of a step bumper that went into the trailer hitch that had some type of sensor. If anyone knows of that thread please let me know.

Thanks.
Absolutely adorable baby and pup.
 

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As a parent I feel that parents should take responsibility to watch out for their children.

Where do we draw the line? Now we want cameras and back-up sensors to be mandated. Then when another child is run over we will want the brakes to be automatically activated when the sensors go off. Maybe next it will be a remote that all children should wear that automatically slams on the breaks of all vehicles when they get within a few feet.

When do parents learn to take responsibility and remove the government involvement? Do we need more laws that are not enforced?

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

 

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Mr Manxter said:
As a parent I feel that parents should take responsibility to watch out for their children.

Where do we draw the line? Now we want cameras and back-up sensors to be mandated. Then when another child is run over we will want the brakes to be automatically activated when the sensors go off. Maybe next it will be a remote that all children should wear that automatically slams on the breaks of all vehicles when they get within a few feet.

When do parents learn to take responsibility and remove the government involvement? Do we need more laws that are not enforced?

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

AMEN! - Well said, no one is perfect, but it urks me when you see young ones un attended. Yes life's different than 40 yrs ago.. then the only rule was home for lunch, dinner then dark. Now its not easy, but one needs to own up to parenting
Dont take me wrong, I love kids and I'm so sorry to hear when one gets hurt, but kids need and want supervision... weather they admit it or not!
 
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