Bigger tires

We had pictures from Detroit. The show truck tires were Firestone Destination A/T 265/60R18s. Honda turned the raised white lettering to the inside, and you could see that the lettering was partly rubbed off. Joe said he was told by a Honda rep that was the largest tire size that would fit with the limited clearance, and even then there was some rubbing. He was also warned that different brands of tires in the same 265/60R18 size may not fit because the clearance was so tight that variances among tire manufacturers could be an issue. It was then that we learned the stock tire would be the same as the Pilot (245/60R18) and the hope of gaining some ground clearance with the Gen2 began to fade. For me, it was the day the music died -- I would have driven my Chevy to the levy but I don't own one.

DogOnBoard said:

We had pictures from Detroit. The show truck tires were Firestone Destination A/T 265/60R18s. Honda turned the raised white lettering to the inside, and you could see that the lettering was partly rubbed off. Joe said he was told by a Honda rep that was the largest tire size that would fit with the limited clearance, and even then there was some rubbing.

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While I have replaced wheels and tires on previous vehicles, I have generally done so with the same tire height and width as the one that came from the factory and the wheel with the same (over very close to the same) offset, so please forgive my general ignorance on the subject.

That said, since we know that the factory tire is the same as the Pilot, I think that it would be reasonable to assume that the factory offset is either the same or very close to the same. Assuming that wheel-size.com is accurate, the '16 Honda Pilot has a +55 offset and based on internet calculators, the 265/60 is approximately 3/4" wider and nearly an inch taller than the factory 245/60 and the tire appears to rub slightly.

So here's my question: If you were to replace the factory wheels with a set with a +35 offset, that would push the wheel 2cm toward the outside of the vehicle. This would likely push the wider tire outside of the fender well and presumably lessen fuel economy as a result (and some states might make you get fender flares), but it seems like it also might keep it from rubbing. It would also change the contact patch of the tire in relation to the vehicle, which could cause a slight increase in tire wear while turning. What other potential problems might I be missing and how significant would any of them be?

I used the following to play with measurements:
https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

MarshallM said:

...If you were to replace the factory wheels with a set with a +35 offset, that would push the wheel 2cm toward the outside of the vehicle. This would likely push the wider tire outside of the fender well and presumably lessen fuel economy as a result (and some states might make you get fender flares), but it seems like it also might keep it from rubbing. It would also change the contact patch of the tire in relation to the vehicle, which could cause a slight increase in tire wear while turning. What other potential problems might I be missing and how significant would any of them be?...

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I'm no expert on tire swapping either, generally having not gone up more than one tire size on any truck I've owned. There are others here who have experience with these issues, but none with the G2 RL, so it's gonna take some experimenting to get those answers.

Your logic seems sound to me, and the idea of a wheel with more offset has been mentioned as a possible work-around for larger tires. There's a standard warning in the G2 owner's manual about mounting any tires other than the factory-recommended size. Both Vehicle Stability Assist and anti-lock braking could be affected. (If those are compromised, it seems like Honda Sensing safety features could also be in play.) Is that warning just liability protection for Honda? How much difference could a slightly taller/wider tire really make? Who knows, but pushing each tire out by 2cm (0.8") might be significant.

When Joe had connections with Honda insiders, he may have been able to get off-the-record advice regarding some of these issues. That seems unlikely now.

MarshallM said:

This seems somewhat hypocritical on Honda's part since they debuted the truck with larger than factory recommended tires.

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I totally agree! And the only way for Honda to redeem itself is to give us a trim package (call it Sport-X, Adventure or something else if they're so adverse to "Off-Road") with the necessary tweaks for 265/60's and enough room for limited-clearance chains. We'd then have a respectable 8.4" of ground clearance. :act024:

Back to the real world. Honda will dismiss any criticism about putting those larger tires on the auto show trucks by saying those were pre-production vehicles not meant for use on public roads. There was no implied guarantee that the tire size would be correct. Any and all specifications are subject to change until they officially release them. So go shove it, you whiners! (snark...and sorry I broke my promise to stop ranting about this...I just gotta let it out once in awhile.)

MarshallM said:

While I have replaced wheels and tires on previous vehicles, I have generally done so with the same tire height and width as the one that came from the factory and the wheel with the same (over very close to the same) offset, so please forgive my general ignorance on the subject.

That said, since we know that the factory tire is the same as the Pilot, I think that it would be reasonable to assume that the factory offset is either the same or very close to the same. Assuming that wheel-size.com is accurate, the '16 Honda Pilot has a +55 offset and based on internet calculators, the 265/60 is approximately 3/4" wider and nearly an inch taller than the factory 245/60 and the tire appears to rub slightly.

So here's my question: If you were to replace the factory wheels with a set with a +35 offset, that would push the wheel 2cm toward the outside of the vehicle. This would likely push the wider tire outside of the fender well and presumably lessen fuel economy as a result (and some states might make you get fender flares), but it seems like it also might keep it from rubbing. It would also change the contact patch of the tire in relation to the vehicle, which could cause a slight increase in tire wear while turning. What other potential problems might I be missing and how significant would any of them be?

I used the following to play with measurements:
https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

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I havnt had a problem with my lift or the truck with 1 inch taller tires stock wheels for 12 years and same as a friend but with a different lift running stock size tires, we put are lifts on VERY early he has 225,000 miles and I have 106,000. He ran with the Skyjacker, mine is Truxx, I got the links he didnt, his rear end is half inch higher, mines a level kit which was .05 shorter in rear, his was cheaper in price. Just going to a different wheel offset for a change in tire size can be just as bad as putting a lift on anything its no different then a spacer with a stock wheel. Im a firm believer that if your going to do it do it right away. All those components get worked into a comfy zone then when one changes it after several thousand miles and you get leaks, noises, shaking, worn out parts cause you changed it all up (my own opinion). That being said I dont no a thing about this new RLs suspension yet and thats why its a waiting game for me. Once I see specs from some major off road truck companys I'll make my choice to do or not to do. Back in "06" it was the same thing, so its ones choice or roll of the dice for issues maybe later on. The more years that go by the manufacturers dont want you to touch anything. They are even makin it harder for john the local mech. down the block to work on any newer models. Just my .02cents good luck and cant wait to see one lifted, if it fits my needs you will see one if it can be done.:grin:

And relevant specifications for the current OEM Firestone 18" tires, and the larger tires stated to have been on the show trucks, as well as the Gen1 18" Michelins and similar sized Michelin comparisons...


Gen2 OEM Tires…

Firestone Destination LE2 245/60R18 105H SL
UTQG: 520 A A (data indicated on tire)
Max Load: 2,039 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 44 psi
Tread Depth: 11/32”
Tire Weight: 31 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7-8.5”
Meas. Rim Width: 7”
Sect. Width: 9.8”
Tread Width: 7.9”
Overall Diameter: 29.6”
Revs. Per Mile: 704
Country of origin: US



Show Truck Tires (based on statements further back in this thread)...

Firestone Destination A/T P265/60R18 109TSL
UTQG: 460 A B
Max Load: 2,271 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 44 psi
Tread Depth: 11/32”
Tire Weigt: 40 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7.5-9.5”
Meas. Rim Width: 8”
Sect. Width: 10.7”
Tread Width: 8.2”
Overall Diameter: 30.5”
Revs. Per Mile: 683
Country of origin: CA



Gen1 OEM 18” Michelin Tires that most raved about…

Michelin LTX M/S P245/60R18 104T SL
UTQG: 440 A B
Max Load: 1,984lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 44 psi.
Tread Depth: 11/32”
Tire Weight: 32 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7-8.5”
Meas. Rim Width: 7”
Sect. Width: 9.8”
Tread Width: 8.1”
Overall Diameter: 29.6”
Revs. Per Mile: 703
Country of origin: US



For comparison…

Micheline Premier LTX 245/60R18 105V SL
UTQG: 620 A A
Max Load: 2,039 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 44 psi.
Tread Depth: 8.5/32”
Tire Weight: 32 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7-8.5”
Meas. Rim Width: 7”
Sect. Width: 9.8”
Tread Width: 8”
Overall Diameter: 29.5”
Revs. Per Mile: 703
Country of origin: US


Micheline Premier LTX 265/60R18 110V SL
UTQG: 620 A A
Max Load: 2,337 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 44 psi.
Tread Depth: 8.5/32”
Tire Weight: 32 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7.5-9.5”
Meas. Rim Width: 8”
Sect. Width: 10.7”
Tread Width: 8.4”
Overall Diameter: 30.5”
Revs. Per Mile: 682
Country of origin: US


Michelin LTX M/S2 P265/60R18
UTQG: 720 A A
Max Load: 2,271 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 44 psi.
Tread Depth: 10.5/32”
Tire Weight: 35 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7.5-9.5”
Meas. Rim Width: 8”
Sect. Width: 10.7”
Tread Width: 8.2”
Overall Diameter: 30.5”
Revs. Per Mile: 682
Country of origin: US

CJMDWYER said:

The tire and wheel company dealer uses said the size tires for the ridgeline he recommends is 255/50 on the 20 inch wheels.

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There are two Michelin Premier LTX tires in that size, with the following specs, just for comparison (tires are like food, people like what they like, and spend what they want to spend):

Micheline Premier LTX 255/50R20 109V XL
UTQG: 620 A A
Max Load: 2,271 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 50 psi.
Tread Depth: 8.5/32”
Tire Weight: 31 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7-9”
Meas. Rim Width: 8”
Sect. Width: 10.4”
Tread Width: 8.6”
Overall Diameter: 30.2”
Revs. Per Mile: 687
Country of origin: US


Micheline Premier LTX 255/50R20 110H XL
UTQG: 620 A A
Max Load: 2,337 lbs.
Max Inflation Pressure: 50 psi.
Tread Depth: 8.5/32”
Tire Weight: 31 lbs.
Rim Width Range: 7-9”
Meas. Rim Width: 8”
Sect. Width: 10.4”
Tread Width: 8.6”
Overall Diameter: 30.9”
Revs. Per Mile: 671
Country of origin: CA

Same weight as the 18" Firestone OEM, higher load ratings, and the first is only slightly taller, so your speedo wouldn't be too far off.

However, those won't fill the wheel openings nearly as much as a taller 22 with a 45 series tire (which are usually up in the 32" tire diameter range). There is also an optical illusion happening with larger wheels due to the larger wheel diameter, and likely, greater width on the wheel and less offset, which physically pushes the wheel outward but also has a way of making them stand out (what is closer also appears larger).

But nothing fills the opening like overall size, which also leads to greater speedometer error, and all the higher forces working on the suspension and brakes.