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Thanks for posting. I will repeat the important part of what you posted...
TO ENSURE PROPER ENGINE BREAK-IN, THE FACTORY FILL ENGINE OIL NEEDS TO REMAIN IN THE ENGINE UNTIL THE FIRST SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE INTERVAL.
 

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Thanks for posting. I will repeat the important part of what you posted...
TO ENSURE PROPER ENGINE BREAK-IN, THE FACTORY FILL ENGINE OIL NEEDS TO REMAIN IN THE ENGINE UNTIL THE FIRST SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE INTERVAL.
There's a lot of old school thinking that's not happy with that verbiage. It's ok. It's their truck and i respect their right to maintain it as they see fit.

What I hate to see is someone having problems because they are so ignorant of a vehicle's maintenance requirements that they totally neglect maintaining the vehicle and bring it to a shop with 30k miles on the original oil, etc. and wonder what could possibly be wrong?
 

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The same company who is having pretty serious oil dilution issues with this asinine engine design that is the 1.5T?

The same company with fairly large issues with the DI injectors in the 3.5L motor?

The same company that has dropped like a tank in the sea in regards to reliability reports?

Thanks but I don't trust a computer that doesn't actually calculate everything. I'm not saying it's not fairly accurate, I'm sure it is. But I don't put all my eggs in that basket.

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Consumer Reports just came out with their new reliability rankings. I don't know if anyone has more survey respondents that Consumer Reports. They rank Honda #12 of 30 car manufacturers rated. Not great, but better than average. Ratings vary from one model to another, with the Passport ranked as Honda's most reliable model. The numerical score is 55, with the best company, Lexus, at 81, and the worst, Cadillac, at 23. That's down from #11 last year.
 

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What I did not see mentioned anywhere above re an oil analysis and "creating your own maint schedule" with oil changes, is that, at least with Blackstone Labs in Indiana, and if you opt for the $10 extra TBN (total base number) test which measures remaining additive (antacids and a bunch of other stuff), they recommend how many more miles you can go before the next change. That's what you base your modified maint. schedule on, not guess work. This is based on their database of many thousands of oil samples. A couple drains ago they recommended I take it to 12K mi with the syn Valvoline 0-20 I was using. Switched to Mobil 1 15K oil on last drain as an experiment, but only have 8K on it so far. I only drive 6-7K mi/year so am on an approx. 2 yr drain cycle. An extended drain interval of course implies synthetic oil. I've only got 93K mi on my '07, but have had zero mechanical problems of any sort and oil usage is nil at drain time. I also push the truck hard on fishing trips over gnarly back country dirt roads after a 5-6 hr high speed run on the interstate. It's a really great truck!

See attached report snippet. They want TBN to be >1 to indicate you did not run out of additive at the drain interval. I was at 2.3 at the 9,200 mi drain cycle indicating lots of margin remaining, thus their 12K mi recommendation.
397590

This might be a good time to mention that black oil does not mean it's "worn out". It means the detergent is doing it's job. In the 1950s with pre-detergent oils, the oil stayed clean and fresh looking after the vehicle sat a bit for the life of the oil. Problem was after a few hundred miles you had a half inch layer of sludge in the bottom of the pan and coating the valve train. In those days 50-60K mi was typical before an engine tear down with valve and ring job. I got a red light with smoke and steam from under the hood at 52-53K mi on my '56 Ford Fairlane, and I was just as anal then as now with maintenance. Though as a broke teenager, I was the 2nd owner.

Also, on really low mileage vehicles, our Subaru Outback is only driven 4-5K mi/year. And for mostly short runs of 10-20 min around town, with very little freeway; everything you're not supposed to do. Oil analysis has never reported any water or antifreeze in the oil, so IMO the old conventional wisdom does not apply with modern engines and oil. My vehicles (2007 and '08) come up to temp really fast (2-3 minutes at 50- 60 deg ambient), and of course the assumption is the engine is in like new condition regarding no head gasket leaks or cracks in the head or block. Otherwise, all bets are off.
 

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Blackstone Labs in Indiana, and if you opt for the $10 extra TBN test which measures remaining additive, they recommend how many more miles you can go before the next change. That's what you base your modified maint. schedule on, not guess work.
So you spend $40+ for each oil analysis (regular test+$10 TBN test+postage).
And this analysis presumably needs to be repeated with some regularity, to determine if the longer intervals are effective and/or identify changes in your engine over time.

As a result...
  • Your factory powertrain warranty (and any extended warranty you might have) is VOIDED because you didn't follow the proper maintenance schedule.
  • Any savings you might gain by extending oil change intervals is partially/completely eaten up by the cost of the oil analysis.
  • Your oil changes never align with the other maintenance called for by the MM system, so maintenance items are always being done at different times.
 

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I would probably stick to the schedule, at least during the warranty period, but failure to do so doesn't automatically void the warranty. The warranty language probably says something to indicate that failure to follow proper maintenance procedures "may void the warranty." I think by law in most or all states the warranty can only be voided when the problem is caused by the failure to maintain it properly. I'm not going to send my oil off for testing, but such test results would be good evidence that the oil did not need to be changed sooner.

Also, in addition to looking at the color, you can rub some oil between your fingers and feel for grit. I think the fingers can detect even very small particles like that, or ask you wife to use her delicate fingers for an even better test. But I look at & feel the oil more when I'm considering whether to change it early rather then whether I should stretch out the change interval. And without knowing anything about pre- and post-detergent oils, many decades ago I started looking at the oil after a few hundred or a thousand miles to see what it looked like when I knew it was still fairly fresh and clean.
 

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Let's don't spread lies because you don't agree, Ok?
Per Honda...

Always maintain your 2019 Honda as suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™. The services suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™ should never be exceeded. They are essential to trouble-free operation. Parts that fail because they did not get proper, timely maintenance are not covered by warranty.
 

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Per Honda...

Always maintain your 2019 Honda as suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™. The services suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™ should never be exceeded. They are essential to trouble-free operation. Parts that fail because they did not get proper, timely maintenance are not covered by warranty.
Yes, so if the failure to maintain was not the cause of the parts failure then they are still covered by the Warranty.
 

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Yes, so if the failure to maintain was not the cause of the parts failure then they are still covered by the Warranty.
Yes, obviously. I didn't know I needed to be that specific.

I just think it is insane for people to recommend nearly doubling the manufacturer specified oil change intervals while under warranty.
There is literally no upside to doing so.
 

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Per Honda...

Always maintain your 2019 Honda as suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™. The services suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™ should never be exceeded. They are essential to trouble-free operation. Parts that fail because they did not get proper, timely maintenance are not covered by warranty.
Honda doesn't want you to exceed the specified or indicated maintenance interval which could potentially lead to warranty issues, but if you want to perform maintenance more frequently than specified or indicated, the only harm is to your wallet and the environment.
 

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Yes, obviously. I didn't know I needed to be that specific.

I just think it is insane for people to recommend nearly doubling the manufacturer specified oil change intervals while under warranty.
There is literally no upside to doing so.
He was going to let it go to 12,000 miles per the testing company's recommendation. I had my first change done at around 9500 miles, but that's because I was going on a trip. The maintenance minder has just changed to 15% oil life remaining, so the manufacturers recommendation, which is to follow the MM, may have taken me to about 11,000 anyway, so 12,000 miles might not be all that far off. Maybe he does a lot of moderate speed highway driving that is easy on the engine.
 

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Always maintain your 2019 Honda as suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™. The services suggested by the vehicle’s Maintenance Minder™ should never be exceeded. They are essential to trouble-free operation. Parts that fail because they did not get proper, timely maintenance are not covered by warranty.
Someone with lab results of their oil, oil/filter receipts, and/or labor, sorry, you are incorrect. The MM doesn’t give you oil analysis. That statement by Honda is specifically there for people that don’t maintain their vehicle expecting Honda to foot the bill. That’s why it is there and it’s very generic. The MM is for the layman who doesn’t concern themselves as much with their vehicles. It’s the easy button. If you are an easy button guy, do that. If you think Honda is going to deny warranty to an owner who is going to the trouble of having their oil analyzed, with lab results from a certified lab in hand, that would hold up in court, well I’ll just Agree to disagree. You can quote my post ad nauseam, I’m never going to agree with you, as in ever. I don’t trust my vehicles to some simpleton computer algorithm on when to change the oil. I want hard data, not guess work. You are worried about this more than I ever will, and you don’t sign my checks.

Subaru of America recommended lower OCI’s than I did on my STi. First two years I owned that car I had free oil changes with the dealer. But I didn’t want Dino oil in my engine after break in so I provided my own oil. I use Amsoil full synthetic in everything, my motorcycles, my automobiles, even my mowing equipment so I always had them take an oil sample so I could send it off To Blackstone. Post warranty the ac pulley failed. Service advisor, my regular, told me he’d phone it in. “You maintain your car better than any of my customers”. Subaru footed the bill. I keep a folder on every vehicle I have, from original buyer paperwork, every oil change, any and all maintenance, with receipts. My vehicles don’t burn oil and there are many things I change way sooner than the factory recommends. Then there are others, like the oil, I’m going to change when the vehicle needs it to be changed. I’m not draining good oil for nothing, I’m not harming the environment or anything else. I’m using high quality oil, and changing it at the right interval using hard data. Magnuson-Moss is the law whether you like it or not.

We provided our opinions let’s just leave it at that.
 

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Well said #1. A tip of the hat from one OCD anal retentive to another.

Wow, did not intend to start that rabbit hole! Just returned to the scene of the crime. Here's the deal: While only 93K mi, my Ridgeline is 14 yrs old, so no warranty in place. Further, I believe in science. Yeah, I agree not cost effective if you oil tested every time, but I was draining it myself for $30. Walmart oil+$5 filter. Not Walmart brand, Valvoline synthetic 0-20.Now it's got the Mobil 1 15K oil. Was only testing it sporadically. In the analysis they test all wear metals (tells condition of engine internals), check for water and coolant (block cracks and gasket leaks) along with additives for $10 extra. The additives are what extend oil life and keep it in grade (i.e, 0-20 oil stays 0-20 oil for the life of the oil). If you have plenty of additives left and the oil is still slippery with no water, it's good oil. The microscopic "ball bearings" that are motor oil do not wear out (under normal conditions, and yes there can be exceptions of severe stress). Does not matter if it's black, that's just carbon from blow-by.

Here's a key value you get though, you get to open an email dialog with the tech who tested your oil and ask him/her questions, and they really know their oil. I learned the techs use the cheapest conventional oil they can find on sale. They do not see sufficient wear differences to justify the added cost of synthetic. I don't care because synthetic is so cheap at Walmart or on sale elsewhere, does not matter to me. I just got a 5 qt jug of Napa 5-30 synthetic on sale for $3.50 qt. Why not use synthetic at that price even though the Outback I use it in is just a grocery store vehicle. I go two+ yrs between drains and it's still only around 7.5 Kmi.

Blackstone has tens of thousands of samples for virtually every vehicle made, so have a massive statistical database to compare your results against when they say you're "good" for the age of the engine, or you have a problem lurking in the shadows. It's also a good thing to do just once if you've just bought a used vehicle that has not had a fresh oil change and you want know what you've just bought. A test can tell you a lot and hopefully give you some peace of mind that you did not just screw up and buy a junker.

A retired USAF former jet mechanic friend told me their "recip" aircraft have an easily accessed oil spigot they use to test the oil after every single flight. They look at wear metals and can predict which bearing is going out next so can schedule repairs early. The military are why we have synthetic oil.

One last note, Mercedes has a oil change interval of 10K mi and BMW 10K to 15K depending on where you look online. You have to ignore what the dealers say; of course they want you to change it at 5-6K mi so they can stay in business. BMW does specify their own very expensive long life oil however, but I have hard time thinking that Mobil and other big names do not know how to make a comparable oil, and that's probably what the Mobil 1 15K mi oil is. And it was only around $25/5 qt jug at Walmart. Maybe $28, but < $30 for 5 quarts.

over and out...

PS: Ok, one more thing. It's not "dino" oil, ok, sorry, you knew that. Petroleum did not come from rotting dinosaures. All oil fields were at one time hundreds of millions of year ago at the bottom of an ancient ocean floor, or very deep lake bed. That's not where the dinosaur's lived, but other stuff did live down there and it got smooshed big time changing it's chemical composition.

"petroleum can be traced to the burial of marine (and also lake dwelling) organisms, primarily prehistoric zooplankton (protozoans, some types of copepods, worms, krill, crabs, jellyfish, and the larvae of fish and other invertebrates) and algae....

More here: https://personal.ems.psu.edu/~pisupati/ACSOutreach/Petroleum_1.html
 

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It's not "dino" oil, ok, sorry, you knew that. Petroleum did not come from rotting dinosaurs. All oil fields were at one time hundreds of millions of years ago at the bottom of an ancient ocean floor or very deep lake bed. That's not where the dinosaur's lived, but other stuff did live down there and it got smooshed big time changing its chemical composition.
I just assumed the term "dino oil" referred to the time of dinosaurs. In other words, not make yesterday like synthetics.
 

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Well said #1. A tip of the hat from one OCD anal retentive to another.

Wow, did not intend to start that rabbit hole! Just returned to the scene of the crime. Here's the deal: While only 93K mi, my Ridgeline is 14 yrs old, so no warranty in place. Further, I believe in science. Yeah, I agree not cost effective if you oil tested every time, but I was draining it myself for $30. Walmart oil+$5 filter. Not Walmart brand, Valvoline synthetic 0-20.Now it's got the Mobil 1 15K oil. Was only testing it sporadically. In the analysis they test all wear metals (tells condition of engine internals), check for water and coolant (block cracks and gasket leaks) along with additives for $10 extra. The additives are what extend oil life and keep it in grade (i.e, 0-20 oil stays 0-20 oil for the life of the oil). If you have plenty of additives left and the oil is still slippery with no water, it's good oil. The microscopic "ball bearings" that are motor oil do not wear out (under normal conditions, and yes there can be exceptions of severe stress). Does not matter if it's black, that's just carbon from blow-by.

Here's a key value you get though, you get to open an email dialog with the tech who tested your oil and ask him/her questions, and they really know their oil. I learned the techs use the cheapest conventional oil they can find on sale. They do not see sufficient wear differences to justify the added cost of synthetic. I don't care because synthetic is so cheap at Walmart or on sale elsewhere, does not matter to me. I just got a 5 qt jug of Napa 5-30 synthetic on sale for $3.50 qt. Why not use synthetic at that price even though the Outback I use it in is just a grocery store vehicle. I go two+ yrs between drains and it's still only around 7.5 Kmi.

snip
It was a good discussion!

I'll tell you why I use synthetic oil Cold flow characteristics. Far superior to 'dino' oil. And I think that's an important thing on a cold start up when the engine loves to rev up to hasten warm up time to reduce emissions.
 
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