[feetdry]

I'll be 80 this year and my goal is to replace all my ice equipment here on our 3-1/2 acre patch. So far so good. Next week I will be talking about replacing our Honda emergency generator with a wall mounted battery pack. That will be the end of everything gasoline except this Ridge. Well, the Ridge will be replaced this year with the R1T I have on order. I do have a propane coffee roaster and a mosquito magnet that run on propane. (I can't see replacing them anytime soon). Okay, I do still have a diesel farm tractor, but I have been looking at EVs there too. Errr, well we do bicycle frequently, but we still use the conventional bicycles. Then there's the kayaks. It will be nice to not have any ice around. (Never too old to learn).

 

[DockingPilot]

I fully recognize and understand that my lawn mowers, tractor, RV, motorcycles (except the all electric one), and boat are extreme polluters. Having lived most of my life in the age of misinformation and indifference regarding human caused environmental damage, I’ve now lately come to understand just how bad things are. Believe me, I struggle mentally with this conflict all the time now, and it has actually led to depression. It is difficult for people to change their ways late in life, but I am trying to make adjustments little by little. Part of the problem is that due to humans procrastinating for so long on addressing environmental concerns, the products, energy sources, and infrastructure that we could use to do better are still in short supply or as yet are non existent.

I completely understand my brother. I really do.
I struggle being in my “sunset years” so to speak and depression lurks constantly.
And I didn’t mean that question to trap you.
Like I said I also am a big moto rider, everything from BMW’s to DR650’s.
And I make my living piloting probably the worlds biggest pollution emitting machine’s know to man.

Such recreational vehicles account for only a small fraction of the number of cars, trucks, and SUVs on the road.

Have you noticed that two-stroke outboard engines are nearly extinct and have been replaced by four-stroke engines with electronic fuel injection and catalytic converters?

Have you noticed that most motorcycles have had electronic fuel injection and catalytic converters for years - even Honda's little Grom does.

Of course Ive noticed Roger. Long ago too. Lol Ive been on motorcycles all my life. Road one from the Atlantic to the Pacific off pavement in fact. 5,300 miles.
But allegedly and unfortunately they still pollute more then cars. Especially motorized watercraft.

Boy I could tell you fellas some hair raising stories from the early 80’s when I worked on tugs.
Bilges pumped overboard
Sewage tanks pumped overboard
Daily galley trash thrown right over the side.
Not a thought to it. And this was right in the harbor.
Dow Chemical acid barges dumped (legally) 6 miles off the NJ coast.
NYC and NJ sewage barges also dumped multiple times a day at the “6 Mile Dump” off Sandy Hook NJ.
Things have changed drastically in this regard.
None of this happens today.
And I can tell you NY harbor is very clean now. Ive seen seals in the harbor. When you see that, the water is clean.
Today ship are using stack scrubbers. They do nothing in reality to curb pollution.
I did dock a new 1,200’ CMA CGM ( French owned) container ship that was LNG powered.


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[siggy]

My brother-in-law had planned to buy a Tesla Model Y within the next 2-3 years or so, but his decision to do so was accelerated by the recent price drop and $7,500 federal tax credit bringing the purchase price down from $65,990 to $45,490. He'll be selling/trading his 2019 Sport Touring. In order to qualify for the tax credit, you have to purchase the "long range" version instead of the more expensive "performance" version. I suspect he'll order the base vehicle without the enhance autopilot or full self-driving capability.

If I were going to buy a Tesla today and didn't want/need a vehicle with an open bed on occasion, the Model Y would be my choice.

For longer road trips, they'll take my brother's 4Runner until his new RAV4 hybrid arrives next month (finally - seven months after he ordered it).

Yes, definitely a big change. Much bigger savings now for those with AGI’s below the phaseout. Still a pretty big savings without the credit. Model Y would be my choice as well; the “entry” level is still quick. Faster than a lot of vehicles. Hell, the 3 Performance qualifies for the credit and that thing will embarrass most vehicles on the road - adults can’t fit in the back though. Maybe once they increase the AGI limits I’ll get more interested. But probably not since there is still so much changing in the EV world.

 

[zroger73]

I suspect he'll order the base vehicle without the enhance autopilot or full self-driving capability.

He clicked "place order" this weekend for a Model Y Long Range with the optional black wheels.

I'll admit I spent a couple of days hovering over the "place order" button, but didn't do it.

The $7,500 tax credit is only good for vehicles delivered before March 1...for now...and the delivery window is currently "January to March". Some people ordered this weekend and already have estimated delivery dates within the next few weeks (word is that Tesla has ramped up production to extraordinary levels at its Giga Factory in Austin).

There are several possible outcomes:

• The vehicle delivers before March 1 and I get the full $7,500 tax credit
• The vehicle delivers after March 1 and the tax credit is reduced or eliminated.
• The vehicle delivers after March 1 and the tax credit is extended and remains at $7,500.

I could choose not to accept delivery, but I'd lose a $250 order fee. I'm not much of a gambler.

There's also a new hardware version coming soon (two high-res cameras replace three low-res cameras up front). Tesla incorporates software and hardware changes on a continuous basis without respect to model year like nearly every other automaker.

I figure I'll wait until my BIL's Tesla arrives and if the tax credit is extended and the prices don't go back up, maybe I'll finally add a long-overdue EV to the fleet.

 

[DockingPilot]

The Giga Press is pretty cool.


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[zroger73]

The Giga Press is pretty cool.

Indeed. Even though I work for a manufacturing company, it still amazes me to see a component that takes seconds or minutes to make will end up going into a product that will be useful and enjoyed for years, if not decades.

 

[Apex]

Have you cross shopped anything else yet? A co-worker bought a new Hyundai Ioniq that I was able to drive. I was extremely impressed. My boss has a Model Y long range, so I was able to drive both cars back to back. The ikea styled interior makes the Y seem a bit more special, but the overall fit and finish might be better on the Hyundai. Both cars overall drove very nice, but I am not a fan of the center screen layout of the Tesla. Before the price drop between the two it would be a no brainer pick for the Hyundai. With the price drop, now I am not so sure. The Tesla has a perception of a premium vehicle that the Hyundai can't match. The supercharger network is to be considered as well. The CEO going off the rails with Twitter does not help the case for Tesla though.

Waiting to see what the other brands come out with.

 

[DockingPilot]

Last week I stopped at a 7-11 type convenience store with a row of Tesla chargers. Every single one occupied with others waiting.
For you fellas that know, is this an issue?
And are these charging stations brand limited or universal? Can a Hyundai charge at a Tesla station?


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[zroger73]

Have you cross shopped anything else yet? A co-worker bought a new Hyundai Ioniq that I was able to drive. I was extremely impressed. My boss has a Model Y long range, so I was able to drive both cars back to back. The ikea styled interior makes the Y seem a bit more special, but the overall fit and finish might be better on the Hyundai. Both cars overall drove very nice, but I am not a fan of the center screen layout of the Tesla. Before the price drop between the two it would be a no brainer pick for the Hyundai. With the price drop, now I am not so sure. The Tesla has a perception of a premium vehicle that the Hyundai can't match. The supercharger network is to be considered as well. The CEO going off the rails with Twitter does not help the case for Tesla though.

Waiting to see what the other brands come out with.

Depite the quality problems and dramatic CEO, a Tesla would be the only EV brand I would consider for the styling, features, and performance - much like a Ridgeline is the only vehicle with an open bed I would buy despite its issues.

Last week I stopped at a 7-11 type convenience store with a row of Tesla chargers. Every single one occupied with others waiting.
For you fellas that know, is this an issue?
And are these charging stations brand limited or universal? Can a Hyundai charge at a Tesla station?

Any EV charger can charge a Tesla. Tesla uses a proprietary connector, but they include an adapter that allows the use of an industry-standard J1772 charging connector.

Tesla chargers can now be used for non-Tesla EVs as well - also by using an adapter.

In short, any EV can use any EV charger or any type of 120 or 240 volt outlet.

The actual chargers for EVs are built into the vehicles. The things we call "chargers" are basically nothing more than "smart extension cords" that tell the vehicle how much power is available for charging so that the vehicle can charge at the available rate. They don't actually do any voltage conversion - that's done by the vehicle. Let's say you connect a level 1 (120 volt) charger to an EV. The "charger" tells the vehicle, "I can supply 120 volts at 12 amps". The EV then accepts the 120 volts directly from the wall outlet and limits charging current to 12 amps. If you plug a Tesla into a "Supercharger", the charger tells the vehicle, "I can supply up to 480 volts at 520 amps". The vehicle then accepts 480 volts directly from the Supercharger and charges at the highest current it can accept up to the maximum available.

 

[Sparkland]

What happens when we are dependent upon adversarial countries for the rare earth metals necessary to produce the batteries, etc for EV's? I am not trying to be combative, as I would love to have an EV, but the reality is there.

I do have an EGO trimmer and a TORO battery powered lawn mower, but I dread the day I have to pay $200-300 for a single battery replacement.

 

[zroger73]

It's possible that battery chemistry and motor design will continue to evolve to reduce dependency on these materials, but this isn't necessarily different than the current dependency on Russia for 40% of the palladium used in the catalytic converters for gasoline-powered vehicles.

The war in Ukraine could make stealing catalytic converters more lucrative for thieves

Russia is the world's biggest supplier of palladium, used in the exhaust systems of gasoline-powered vehicles.

www.marketplace.org

 

[DTHughes]

Not sure if this has been posted here (maybe I saw this on this forum) not sure. But it is interesting.

 

[zroger73]

Before putting full faith in this, I'd want to independently verify his figures, but I enjoyed the concept of his presentation even though I caught a couple of small errors such as his comparison of a horse and a Corvette. There, he showed the CO2 produced by the horse going to plants which converted it to oxygen which was used by the horse. On the Corvette, he showed the CO2 coming out of the Corvette as accumulating when in reality, the CO2 produced by the Corvette also goes to the plants which convert it to oxygen which is required by the Corvette's engine. There is a CO2 cycle for both the horse and the Corvette, but he suggests there isn't.

Judging by the vehicles people buy, the amount of waste they produce, the excess to which people live, etc., it's obvious to me that most people aren't actually concerned about the environment. Most of the Teslas I see around me are owned by a family of 3 or 4 with a 4-5 bedroom McMansion with all sorts of non-essential luxury items in and around the home.

Personally, I like EVs for their performance, quietness, convenience, cleanliness, low maintenance, smoothness, and low energy cost per mile. Even if they ultimately emit as much or more CO2 over their life than a gasoline-powered vehicle with present technology, those other advantages have real value.

 

[DTHughes]

I agree. "If" his figures are close to accurate, then what he is saying makes sense. But I would like some other verification of those numbers. 🤔

 

[speedlever]

I haven't watched that video yet. But here's my question. I've heard that EVs can be very expensive to repair (collision, etc.). How does insuring an EV compared to and ICE vehicle compare, assuming similar value?

 

[zroger73]

How does insuring an EV compared to and ICE vehicle compare, assuming similar value?

For me through State Farm:

$44,000 Ridgeline = $64.44/mo.
$35,000 Miata = $61.89/mo.
$54,000 Model Y = $126.76/mo.

 

[Sparkland]

For me through State Farm:

$44,000 Ridgeline = $64.44/mo.
$35,000 Miata = $61.89/mo.
$54,000 Model Y = $126.76/mo.

That's enough of a difference to disqualify the masses from converting to an EV right there.

 

[stevem5215]

Wow, that's nuts. Probably due to the lousy parts situation with availability and cost of repairs on them.

 

[zroger73]

That's enough of a difference to disqualify the masses from converting to an EV right there.

Its certainly offsets a portion of the fuel savings.

Currently, I drive about 1,100 miles per month and average 21 MPG in the Ridgeline. At $3.00/gallon, I spend $157/mo. for gasoline.

Driving that same distance in a Model Y at $0.10/kWh would cost $31/mo. for electricity.

 

[siggy]

Wow, that's nuts. Probably due to the lousy parts situation with availability and cost of repairs on them.

Yep. Something that often doesn't get talked about. In theory you should have savings in other operating costs such as brakes. But then a counter to that is you'll likely go through tires quicker due to that instant torque baby! It's difficult to make a case for EV's due to financial savings. That is unless you get a $5k Nissan Leaf and get free charging at work (something I've considered). Those who buy a $55k EV and say they are saving so much money on gas really haven't computed anything. You could get a $10k Civic and be ahead for decades.