Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Im at 55k miles on my 2017. I havent done it in the past with other vehicles, but are either a coolant flush or transmission flush neccesary. Ive read mixed reviews both ways, figured i would bring it straight to the ROC. Any feedback appreciated.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,012 Posts
Have you been following the regular scheduled maintenance for the trans (e.g. - one fluid change at around 40-45k, then every 30k thereafter)?

Have you been towing much or using the Ridgeline in severe conditions?

Are you having any issues with the transmission?

For the Ridgeline, you NEVER do a flush in the traditional sense (hooked up to a machine). Instead, you would do four (4) drain and fill operations, with some miles driven in between each D&F.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited by Moderator)
Have you been following the regular scheduled maintenance for the trans (e.g. - one fluid change at around 40-45k, then every 30k thereafter)?

Have you been towing much or using the Ridgeline in severe conditions?

Are you having any issues with the transmission?

For the Ridgeline, you NEVER do a flush in the traditional sense (hooked up to a machine). Instead, you would do four (4) drain and fill operations, with some miles driven in between each D&F.
So is the 4 drain in fill exactly as it sounds? Drain and fully refill, put some miles on it and repeat 3 more times?
There are no issues to speak of and no towing going on. It was just more or less a question to gage the necessity of it. And of course because the dealership keeps hitting me up for it at oil changes.

What about coolant? Is that a simple drain and fill? One time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
987 Posts
Has there ever been a reason presented WHY this is?

Bill
I belive it has something to do with over pressures that the flush machines use. And Honda does not believe in them. If you do normal maintenance you should be fine. I used to work at a honda dealership (in parts). My 2010 G1 has about 90k on it and I have probably over changed it. It's been change at least 5 times now. Along with all the other fluids. And she runs like top. I worked there for thirty years and saw all kinds of damage done by other people using aftermarket fluids. One of the biggest ones was tranny fluid. Car/cars would come in with the complaint that it was not shifting properly. Next question that was asked was 'has the fluid been changed and with what'. The answer was yes and with ABC fluid. We would tell the customer the first thing we needed to do was a manual flush. Meaning we would have to drain and fill the tranny 3 to 4 times with driving a short distance in between each change. 99.9% of the time that would fix it. I have seen a lot. They designed it and tested it. So why not just use their fluids. So I strictly use Only Honda fluids in my Ridgeline and Accord. Have kept all my Hondas for around 10 years then trade them in. Have never had a problem doing that.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,012 Posts
So is the 4 drain in fill exactly as it sounds? Drain and fully refill, put some miles on it and repeat 3 more times?
There are no issues to speak of and no towing going on. It was just more or less a question to gage the necessity of it. And of course because the dealership keeps hitting me up for it at oil changes.

What about coolant? Is that a simple drain and fill? One time.
Under normal conditions, you would do a single Drain and Fill (DnF) when the Maintenance Minder (MM) notifies you (should be A13 somewhere around 40-45k miles, corresponding with an oil change at that time, then every ~30k thereafter, again corresponding to nearest oil change). If you have not been following the MM and not waiting to reset the MM until 15% or less remaining life (on oil change), there is a good chance that you will NOT get this message. That's why it is always a good idea to follow the MM, so you don't miss any required maintenance, and don't do any unnecessary maintenance (whereas many dealers have a financial incentive to get you to do extra maintenance, counter to Honda's recommendations).

If you are experiencing problems with the transmission, or the fluid smells burnt, then you would want to do the 4x DnF, and it is just as it sounds. DnF, drive a few miles, repeat 3 more times.

I don't believe the coolant is part of the MM, but I think Honda recommends changing it out every two or three years (check your owner's manual - if you don't have the 600+ page manual, it is available at owners.honda.com - digital pdf is free, hard copy is free if you request within six months of new vehicle purchase).

I believe brake fluid maintenance is similar to coolant, and not tracked by the MM.

I can't comment on ease of doing either one, because I've not had to do that on my truck yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Under normal conditions, you would do a single Drain and Fill (DnF) when the Maintenance Minder (MM) notifies you (should be A13 somewhere around 40-45k miles, corresponding with an oil change at that time, then every ~30k thereafter, again corresponding to nearest oil change). If you have not been following the MM and not waiting to reset the MM until 15% or less remaining life (on oil change), there is a good chance that you will NOT get this message. That's why it is always a good idea to follow the MM, so you don't miss any required maintenance, and don't do any unnecessary maintenance (whereas many dealers have a financial incentive to get you to do extra maintenance, counter to Honda's recommendations).

If you are experiencing problems with the transmission, or the fluid smells burnt, then you would want to do the 4x DnF, and it is just as it sounds. DnF, drive a few miles, repeat 3 more times.

I don't believe the coolant is part of the MM, but I think Honda recommends changing it out every two or three years (check your owner's manual - if you don't have the 600+ page manual, it is available at owners.honda.com - digital pdf is free, hard copy is free if you request within six months of new vehicle purchase).

I believe brake fluid maintenance is similar to coolant, and not tracked by the MM.

I can't comment on ease of doing either one, because I've not had to do that on my truck yet.
Thanks for the info. This may be a stupid question, but when doing the 4x drain and fill, new fluid every fill?
 

·
Registered
2019 RTL-E (white on beige) in central Texas
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
I don't believe the coolant is part of the MM .....
Just FYI, it is, "Replace engine coolant" appears on the MM display as Maintenance Sub Item "5"
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
2006 Ridgeline RTS in Steel Blue
Joined
·
7,168 Posts
Thanks for the info. This may be a stupid question, but when doing the 4x drain and fill, new fluid every fill?
Yes, Transmission Fluid only a portion of the "New" compared to the existing is replaced with each successive drain and fill. Coolant can be on the initial fill, and without other incidents, in the system for 10yr or 100k, most just do it as apart of the Timing Belt at 105k miles, after the initial fill is replaced most recommendations are 5yr or 60k.

on the Gen 1 Coolant in the system was 2.14gal total capacity, but you would remove approximately 1.5gal (1.64 if you include the overflow tank) every drain and fill or approximately 70% on the initial DnF, it's almost universally accepted to stop in the 70% range, If someone did a 2nd you would be at 91%. With the transmission, the ATF in the system was 8.5qts total capacity, but you would remove only 3.5qts every drain and fill or approximately 42% on the initial DnF, but each successive DnF the percentage goes down, at 2 DnF's your at 65%, and honestly if I did no towing, had no shift issues, and none of the other issues that have been reported, I could stop there. Most recommend that additional 3rd 80% and 4th 88%, and I actually did a 5th achieving 92%, it would take 24 successive DnF's to reach 100% Have you been following any of these threads, List of Transmission Failures? and Transmission Torque Converter Lockup Issues

Personally, to simplify, I changed to a DnF on ATF every other OCI. My reason is really simple, the oil and ATF (oil based) can go in the same container for recycling and I'm already under there, 1 or 2 additional bolts 1 additional crush washer, and with the Fluid Analysis I've done on my G1, this keeps the fluid in condition similar to what it tested like after (5) changes after a minor SMOD Event.

When I have time I'll recreate the calculator for the G2 (excel spreadsheets) and confirm, each capacity total, amount removed per DnF, and run them out and make them available, unless someone has already created it, which I haven't seen, @CentexG2 do you have any of these numbers, I don't have a full owners manual available currently
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
15,224 Posts
Has there ever been a reason presented WHY this is?

Bill
Honda ServiceNews, February 2006

Flush Systems: A Big Taboo

In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance schedule to the letter. Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products look impressive and make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using them on any Honda vehicle. Here’s why:
  • The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket flush systems.​
  • Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service customer’s wait time.​
  • Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance or reliability.​
  • Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you’re flushing. This will dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its performance.​
  • Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade the fluid’s or lubricant’s performance. This is particularly true for coolant.​
  • Any damage caused by flush systems isn't covered under warranty.​
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Yes, Transmission Fluid only a portion of the "New" compared to the existing is replaced with each successive drain and fill. Coolant can be on the initial fill, and without other incidents, in the system for 10yr or 100k, most just do it as apart of the Timing Belt at 105k miles, after the initial fill is replaced most recommendations are 5yr or 60k.

on the Gen 1 Coolant in the system was 2.14gal total capacity, but you would remove approximately 1.5gal (1.64 if you include the overflow tank) every drain and fill or approximately 70% on the initial DnF, it's almost universally accepted to stop in the 70% range, If someone did a 2nd you would be at 91%. With the transmission, the ATF in the system was 8.5qts total capacity, but you would remove only 3.5qts every drain and fill or approximately 42% on the initial DnF, but each successive DnF the percentage goes down, at 2 DnF's your at 65%, and honestly if I did no towing, had no shift issues, and none of the other issues that have been reported, I could stop there. Most recommend that additional 3rd 80% and 4th 88%, and I actually did a 5th achieving 92%, it would take 24 successive DnF's to reach 100% Have you been following any of these threads, List of Transmission Failures? and Transmission Torque Converter Lockup Issues

Personally, to simplify, I changed to a DnF on ATF every other OCI. My reason is really simple, the oil and ATF (oil based) can go in the same container for recycling and I'm already under there, 1 or 2 additional bolts 1 additional crush washer, and with the Fluid Analysis I've done on my G1, this keeps the fluid in condition similar to what it tested like after (5) changes after a minor SMOD Event.

When I have time I'll recreate the calculator for the G2 (excel spreadsheets) and confirm, each capacity total, amount removed per DnF, and run them out and make them available, unless someone has already created it, which I haven't seen, @CentexG2 do you have any of these numbers, I don't have a full owners manual available currently
Thanks again. While I'm more than capable of doing this, I just need to make sure I understand the process. You menioned only a portion of the new compared to the old on each dnf. Could you elaborate?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
On older vehicles I have heard using two five gallon buckets, one empty and one with new transmission fluid. By disconnecting the cooling lines and adding a piece of tubing to each, place the appropriate one in the clean fluid, the other in the empty bucket, start the engine. Clean fluid is being drawn in while old fluid is being dumped out, only normal operating pressures involved. I am having real issues with justifying just changing 1/3 of the transmission fluid leaving mostly used fluid in the system.

Bill
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
I am having real issues with justifying just changing 1/3 of the transmission fluid leaving mostly used fluid in the system.
You could to the 3-drain & fill in one day. And depending on your level of OCD you might end up chasing the residual fluid for many days.

Perhaps this would be an opportunity for one of our resident engineers to crunch the numbers to determine at what point the drain & fill will result in a 95-99% fluid replacement.
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Ridgeline RTS in Steel Blue
Joined
·
7,168 Posts
Thanks again. While I'm more than capable of doing this, I just need to make sure I understand the process. You menioned only a portion of the new compared to the old on each dnf. Could you elaborate?
Uhhh, Please reread the post and clarify your question?
On older vehicles I have heard using two five gallon buckets, one empty and one with new transmission fluid. By disconnecting the cooling lines and adding a piece of tubing to each, place the appropriate one in the clean fluid, the other in the empty bucket, start the engine. Clean fluid is being drawn in while old fluid is being dumped out, only normal operating pressures involved. I am having real issues with justifying just changing 1/3 of the transmission fluid leaving mostly used fluid in the system.

Bill
Yes, this can be done, it's also called a "bladder type of change" I've never arrived at which "Line" in the G1 is "pumping out" and which is "sucking in" and I'm even less familiar with G2.
You could to the 3-drain & fill in one day. And depending on your level of OCD you might end up chasing the residual fluid for many days.

Perhaps this would be an opportunity for one of our resident engineers to crunch the numbers to determine at what point the drain & fill will result in a 95-99% fluid replacement.
@Farther if I had the numbers (Total Fluid Capacity of the Transmission, Amount of Transmission Fluid Removed with a single drain, Total Coolant Capacity, and Amount of Coolant removed with a single drain). My WAG is that the 6spd (G2 '17-'19) and the 5spd (G1 '06-'14) have similar capacities, so 90% range will be achieved at approximately 5 DnF's. I have an excel spreadsheet that I could calculate that, and well I'm not an engineer, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Farther

·
Registered
2019 RTL-E (white on beige) in central Texas
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
You could to the 3-drain & fill in one day. And depending on your level of OCD you might end up chasing the residual fluid for many days.

Perhaps this would be an opportunity for one of our resident engineers to crunch the numbers to determine at what point the drain & fill will result in a 95-99% fluid replacement.
The spreadsheet in the first post at the BITOG thread linked below provides that. You do NOT need to join that forum or dropbox, etc to directly download the spreadsheet:

Transmission Partial Drain CALCULATOR **Sticky

For purposes of input to the spreadsheet for our G2 RLs (EDIT: with the 6-speed tranny through model year 2019, thank you @Carsmak):
enter 3.3 as the "Partial Drain & refill Amount"
enter 8.1 (AWD) or 7.8 (FWD) as the "Total Fluid"
The "Total Fluid" difference is due to the capacity of the cooler on all AWD but not FWD models; those quantities from the G2 Honda Service Manual.

Note that spreadsheet is valid for any miscible-fluid replacement scheme where a portion of "old" is replaced with a portion of "new" with thorough mixing between each refill (engine coolant, for example).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
So is the 4 drain in fill exactly as it sounds? Drain and fully refill, put some miles on it and repeat 3 more times?
There are no issues to speak of and no towing going on. It was just more or less a question to gage the necessity of it. And of course because the dealership keeps hitting me up for it at oil changes.

What about coolant? Is that a simple drain and fill? One time.
Honda automatic transmissions are different from all the others. The drain and fill is all you should do. You can't do too many drain and fills. Never a flush.
The coolant will be changed when you do the timing belt and water pump. Anything earlier is up to you.
 

·
Registered
2019 RTL-E (white on beige) in central Texas
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
On older vehicles I have heard using two five gallon buckets, one empty and one with new transmission fluid. By disconnecting the cooling lines and adding a piece of tubing to each, place the appropriate one in the clean fluid, the other in the empty bucket, start the engine. Clean fluid is being drawn in while old fluid is being dumped out, only normal operating pressures involved.
That old myth that you've "heard" does not work on systems which do not "suck" from the cooler line circuit (e.g. our RLs and many if not most transmission fluid / cooler systems). It's largely a mythical method in terms of actual applicability because the far far vast majority of systems depend on pressure at the cooler inlet to force return of fluid to the sump, and that pressure is forfeit when you put open buckets in that circuit. The pump in the tranny "sucks" from the transmission sump, which is vented to atmospheric pressure.

Tranny fluid replacement machines, even those that do not do a 'forced flush', use a pump in the machine to replace the fluid in balance with the rate at which the vehicle's pump forces fluid out of the vehicle.

I am having real issues with justifying just changing 1/3 of the transmission fluid leaving mostly used fluid in the system.
Apparently no amount of explanation will assuage your personal "issues" regarding Honda's recommended maintenance procedures. No worries, do what you will! :)
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top