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No argument there.

I only have experience in Honda. I have seen what happens when other then Honda fluids have been used in thousands of Hondas in my years at the dealership.

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Im at 55k miles on my 2017. I havent done it in the past with other vehicles, but are either a coolant flush or transmission flush neccesary. Ive read mixed reviews both ways, figured i would bring it straight to the ROC. Any feedback appreciated.
There are only two kinds of maintenance, breakdown and scheduled. Theory is that if you do the scheduled, you won't have to do the unscheduled. Japanese cars are, for the most part, built to close tolerances. So doing scheduled is best for most people. Moving around, I have gone up on the net and tried to identify if one of the 100 best Honda dealers is close to me. They usually work harder to do maintenance right. You also develop a working relationship with them that can pay off in the future. When I sold my 2008 Ridgeline after eleven years, it had 308,000 miles on it and didn't leak oil. Yes, I had a few issues along the way, but probably saved money during the process. In addition, when I bought it, I received seven thousand off. Not bad for my first truck.
 

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A (as in one, I presume) Honda Tech says “seems cleaner” is not much support and is subjective at best. Is there any component of a vehicle more neglected by owners than the tranny? Well, maybe the cooling system. There’s nothing “magic“ about Honda, Motorcraft, ACDelco, Mopar, etc., etc., etc. fluids. None of them make/refine their own fluids.
No, automakers don't have their own refineries, but they do work with fluid manufacturers to formulate a fluid that meets their specifications for their vehicles.

Example: Honda DW-1 ATF is made by Idemitsu for Honda. Idemitsu sells TYPE H PLUS that is advertised as being "engineered for and meets the requirements of" Honda DW-1. Yes, these two fluids are clearly not the same based on data contained within their SDS's.
 

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......clearly not the same, but suitable for use as a DW-1 equivalent in Hondas, right?
 

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......clearly not the same, but suitable for use as a DW-1 equivalent in Hondas, right?
Idemitsu says, "Engineered for and meets the requirements of Honda Automatic Transmission with DW-1 and Z-1 specifications."

Honda says, "Do not mix Honda ATF DW-1 (automatic transmission fluid) with other transmission fluids.
Using a transmission fluid other than Honda ATF DW-1 may adversely affect the operation and durability of your vehicle’s transmission, and damage the transmission.
Any damage caused by using a transmission fluid that is not equivalent to Honda ATF DW-1 is not covered by Honda’s new vehicle limited warranty."

"Engineered for" and "meet the requirements of" do not mean "equivalent to" or compatible with.

To minimize the chance of being denied a warranty transmission replacement, it's best to use what Honda says to use. Do you believe Idemitsu would pay for the replacement? :)
 

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I'm simply questioning the statement "use NOTHING but Honda fluids" and asking what support there is for that statement.
I'm pretty sure he meant Honda branded fluids. Does that make you feel better?
 

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I don't get it......are we talking toe-may-toe vs toe-mah-toe? 🤷‍♂️
 

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I think HRL383 should just use the fluid he wants to. Stop arguing with everyone because he just wants to. And why would you want to be cheap on your 30/40 Thousand dollar vehicle?

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Something to keep in mind is that any auto manufacturer's goal is to make maximum profit, with a priority just to get their vehicle through the warranty period with the least amount of warranty issues. But after the warranty is satisfied increased issues could translate to an owner returning the vehicle to the shop and then, again, maximizing profits. There could be better alternatives to maintenance if an owner intends to keep a vehicle for a longer term.

Bill
 

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There are always owners who want to use fluids of their choice. I'm in the preventative maintenance mindset and use Honda branded DW-1 for the tranny, VTM-4 for the rear diff, Honda branded power steering, brake and coolant fluids. I use Mobil 1 oil and hypoid gear oil for the transfer assembly.

I'm sure you can find Honda service departments that use other than Honda fluids (which frankly surprises me). I've seen reports of that here.

Experts in the field seem to be able to differentiate between compatible fluids and approved fluids. I prefer to stick with approved fluids.
 

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Something to keep in mind is that any auto manufacturer's goal is to make maximum profit, with a priority just to get their vehicle through the warranty period with the least amount of warranty issues. But after the warranty is satisfied increased issues could translate to an owner returning the vehicle to the shop and then, again, maximizing profits. There could be better alternatives to maintenance if an owner intends to keep a vehicle for a longer term.

Bill
Automakers don't develop reputations for reliability by selling low-quality fluids or recommending too-infrequent maintenance. That's not sustainable.

I'm sure you can find Honda service departments that use other than Honda fluids (which frankly surprises me). I've seen reports of that here.
Most dealers use bulk engine oil delivered by local suppliers from various manufacturers. Honda offers their own formulation of engine oil in 55 gallons drums, but few dealers buy it. Some dealer use third-part gear oil for the transfer case instead of HGO-1 that doesn't even match Honda's viscosity specification. All other fluids are typically Honda.
 

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Correct.



Sure. People buy inferior or inappropriate products all day long due to various reasons including cost, convenience, ignorance, belief, etc.



Perhaps the fluid might not break down as quickly, but the shift quality might suffer or clutches may wear more quickly.

It's a lot easier for an automaker to formulate a transmission fluid for a specific transmission than for a transmission fluid maker to formulate a fluid that works with different transmissions from different manufacturers.

Honda, for example, has four different A/T fluids - each one for a different transmission: DW-1 for the 6-speed (and 5AT), Type 3.1 for the 9-speed, Type 2.0 for the 10-speed, and CVT fluid.

Valvoline, for example, recommends their MaxLife ATF for dozens of different transmissions from many different automakers - it can't possibly be an ideal fluid for any single transmission.

(Moderator note: added 5AT to the DW-1 list).
You've done the best you could. No helping some.
 
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