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2020 RTL-E - Scarlet
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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone checked on the cost of a tranny fluid change? I was just quoted $340!
In the past this was $130-$160 for my other Hondas.
 

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The process for the 9 speed is unique and was known in advance that it will cost more. The process is in this forum somewhere, I know I've read it. I believe due to temperature requirements, it's also not easy to DIY like the 6 speed.

-Mike
 

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Also, the ATF 3.1 for the ZF 9-speed is more than three times as expensive as fluids for Honda transmissions.

There's more information in this thread:

 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks you both for the info.
 

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There are folks on the PP forum that just do spill and fills with the 9 speed provided that the fluids are at the same temp. If you look at the bottom of the trans there is a sticker that says the amount to fill to with. I'm still in the camp of taking it to the dealer but now that the 9 speed is the volume trans. if there are more DIY successes, I'll attempt when the time comes. Hopefully someone will post a spill and fill diy video.




If you read the comments on Youtube, certainly a debateable topic but there is now evidence of spills and fills not causing problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks. Interesting video, good info.
 

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Valvoline Multi Vehicle Transmission fluid is compatible with the Type 3.1 from Honda. Substantially cheaper in price too.
Click on transmission products, PI Sheets

Honda wants you to buy theirs for $$$$.. If Valvoline was not compatible they would not sell it due to liability and a major lawsuit from Honda.
 

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Valvoline Multi Vehicle Transmission fluid is compatible with the Type 3.1 from Honda. Substantially cheaper in price too.
Click on transmission products, PI Sheets

Honda wants you to buy theirs for $$$$.. If Valvoline was not compatible they would not sell it due to liability and a major lawsuit from Honda.
Nowhere does Valvoline state that this product is compatible with Honda ATF 3.1. Valvoline (the company selling the fluid!) states that their product is recommended for use in applications that call for Honda ATF Type 3.1. When's the last time you heard a Honda salesman recommend going across the street to purchase an Altima instead instead of an Accord?

Valvoline admits this product has not been tested or approved by the automakers.

"Valvoline has conducted extensive bench testing and chassis dynamometer trials to support MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF performance in the broadest range of transmissions; however, it should be noted that MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF is not an OEM licensed product. The respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor endorsed MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF in these applications."

They don't face much liability because there is no written warranty or guarantee. Their entire PI sheet is a carefully-worded advertisement with a bunch of legal and technical fluff intended to impress the consumer. It's funny that they disclose only 8 properties that are of little to no benefit to the consumer. Who cares if the fluid is red or that it has an ASTM color of 7? What good is knowing the specific gravity or viscosity when you don't know what values are ideal for a specific transmission?
 

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Never trust a salesman my friend. There is not one documented case of Valvoline causing any transmission damage. Prove me wrong!! Does Honda have a TSB, a warning.. no just a recommendation. Of course Honda is not going to endorse another product for use in its vehicles. It’s all marketing for profit.
 

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Never trust a salesman my friend. There is not one documented case of Valvoline causing any transmission damage. Prove me wrong!! Does Honda have a TSB, a warning.. no just a recommendation. Of course Honda is not going to endorse another product for use in its vehicles. It’s all marketing for profit.
You mean like Valvoline is doing? Valvoline's primary revenue streams are:

1. Sales of engine oil and transmission fluid
2. Labor to replace engine oil in transmission fluid in their 1,000+ service centers

You know what Honda's primary revenue stream is?

1. New vehicle sales

Which company do you think is going to spend more money marketing ATF for profit? When's the last time you saw a Honda ATF 3.1 commercial?
 

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Nowhere does Valvoline state that this product is compatible with Honda ATF 3.1. Valvoline (the company selling the fluid!) states that their product is recommended for use in applications that call for Honda ATF Type 3.1. When's the last time you heard a Honda salesman recommend going across the street to purchase an Altima instead instead of an Accord?

Valvoline admits this product has not been tested or approved by the automakers.

"Valvoline has conducted extensive bench testing and chassis dynamometer trials to support MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF performance in the broadest range of transmissions; however, it should be noted that MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF is not an OEM licensed product. The respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor endorsed MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF in these applications."

They don't face much liability because there is no written warranty or guarantee. Their entire PI sheet is a carefully-worded advertisement with a bunch of legal and technical fluff intended to impress the consumer. It's funny that they disclose only 8 properties that are of little to no benefit to the consumer. Who cares if the fluid is red or that it has an ASTM color of 7? What good is knowing the specific gravity or viscosity when you don't know what values are ideal for a specific transmission?
Yeah I'm going to have to go with zroger73 on this one. Honda AT fluid is the only fluid for Hondas since they have finicky transmissions. The price you pay for Vtech and smooth shifts I guess
 

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Yeah I'm going to have to go with zroger73 on this one. Honda AT fluid is the only fluid for Hondas since they have finicky transmissions. The price you pay for Vtech and smooth shifts I guess
It’s your money so spend as you will. Still zero evidence that it will cause your tranny to break.
it’s like the oil analogy, why buy Mobil 1 when Walmart super tech is just as good and half the price. Volume!! Valvoline sells in massive volume, hence lower prices. It’s all economics my friend.
 

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Isn't the 9 speed one of the first trans in a Honda vehicle NOT made by Honda? It's a ZF trans right?

I have heard how finicky Honda's are with trans fluid.

Why would a German company design a trans to be Honda Fluid specific?

ZF makes trans for Rolls Royce to Ford to BMW to Chevy.

You would think they would design a transmission that has a more standard requirement for Fluid.
 

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Isn't the 9 speed one of the first trans in a Honda vehicle NOT made by Honda? It's a ZF trans right?

I have heard how finicky Honda's are with trans fluid.

Why would a German company design a trans to be Honda Fluid specific?

ZF makes trans for Rolls Royce to Ford to BMW to Chevy.

You would think they would design a transmission that has a more standard requirement for Fluid.
The ZF transmissions used in RWD Rolls Royce and BMW models are longitudinal 8-speeds with friction clutches. The ZF transmissions used in FWD Honda and Chrysler models are transverse 9-speeds with a combination of friction and dog clutches.

ZF specifies two different fluids for these transmissions: ZF LifeGuard 8 fluid for the 8-speed and ZF LifeGuard 9 fluid for the 9-speed.

ZF LifeGuard 9 fluid is supplied by ZF - it's less expensive than Honda ATF 3.1.
Honda ATF 3.1 is supplied by Shell and is approved by ZF for use in this transmission.
You can also use BMW ATF 3+, but it's the most expensive by far.

No two automatic transmission models are identical - each has unique formulation requirements in order to operate as designed. Universal, "one-size-fits-all/most" fluids are simply a bad idea.
 

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The ZF transmissions used in RWD Rolls Royce and BMW models are longitudinal 8-speeds with friction clutches. The ZF transmissions used in FWD Honda and Chrysler models are transverse 9-speeds with a combination of friction and dog clutches.

ZF specifies two different fluids for these transmissions: ZF LifeGuard 8 fluid for the 8-speed and ZF LifeGuard 9 fluid for the 9-speed.

ZF LifeGuard 9 fluid is supplied by ZF - it's less expensive than Honda ATF 3.1.
Honda ATF 3.1 is supplied by Shell and is approved by ZF for use in this transmission.
You can also use BMW ATF 3+, but it's the most expensive by far.

No two automatic transmission models are identical - each has unique formulation requirements in order to operate as designed. Universal, "one-size-fits-all/most" fluids are simply a bad idea.
Zroger73
Thanks.
I understand that a one size fits all are a bad idea. That's not what I meant. I was asking myself why would ZF make a transmission to another auto manufacturer's Fluid specs. You kind of answered the question anyway with the LifeGuard9 reference. I also visited an Acura site regarding this topic as well. I learned that the original price was about $48/qt.
Apparently the price is lower now to the $22/qt range.

I knew there has to be options to the Honda ATF 3.1

Kinda miss the Ol' T-400! LOL
 

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I don't know about fluids, but ZF makes the ZF9 to spec for Honda. The Honda version has the extra-low first gear. I don't know of any other ZF9 application that has that setup outside of Honda.

Edit: I was mistaken. See following post!
 

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Wow! That's good to know. I wonder if Chrysler's version starts in 2nd gear now, or if they just have higher final drive ratios?

I seem to recall that FCA manufactures their own ZF9 under license from ZF, or maybe that is just the ZF8, or both?
I'm not sure which, if any, non-Honda applications normally start in 2nd gear. A friend of mine has a newer Cherokee with the ZF 9HP, but asking him would be pointless since he doesn't know the difference between blinker fluid and muffler bearings. :)

Correct - FCA builds their own ZF transmissions under license. Honda buys directly from ZF. ZF provides reference software which each automaker tweaks for their application.
 
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