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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Stopped by a buddies shop yesterday. He does vehicle wraps, not the advertising kind, but full vinyl wraps over paint. He had just finished an Audi A7 in mat black. The car looked fantastic, but aside from the exterior cosmetics, the B&O factory system audio system caught my eye. While the system employs standard dash mounted tweeters at the right and left corners of the windscreen, when the system is off, the lens retracts and the top of the lens completely covers the tweeter dome. I'd never seen this particular reflection solution from an OEM - but that just means I'm behind the times.

Leave it to B&O and Audi to develop and install motorized acoustic reflecting lens angled to the center of the vehicle. I'm thinking these might be a bit of a maintenance nightmare but still, a very cool idea. Hmmm. Suddenly, the synapse gears are in motion. Just what I needed, another idea for an already unfinished audio system.

Audi0.jpg

In the "exterior" folder on this forum, images of other wraps my pal has done have been posted In case anyone is interested, here's a few shots of the A7. A wrap is definitely in my RL's future!

Audi1.jpg Audi3.jpg Audi2.jpg
 

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Nice tweets.
So how does the wrap compare in terms of cost and wear compared to a new paint job?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Nice tweets.
So how does the wrap compare in terms of cost and wear compared to a new paint job?
In terms of durability, vinyl beats the snot outta paint. Scratch resistance and hazing are nearly non-existent. From what I understand, "clear bra" vinyl's, the kind used to protect lenses and paint are "self healing" and so are the higher quality colored vinyl's. If a scratch appears, pouring hot water over the surface causes the scratch edges to rejoin - as long as they aren't too deep. And, if a fender or door gets buggered up, stripping and replacing vinyl is way cheaper than squirt guns. I've picked up scrap pieces and they are very tough. Literally can't rip a sheet by hand. They'll stretch but won't tear.

As with paint, preparation and application makes all the difference. There are some schlocks out there wasting peoples time and money doing bad work, so finding a wrapper with a good portfolio is critical. From what I've have seen at my friends shop, he has as many "de-re" wraps as he does new business because consumers really like the look, feel and durability of vinyl, but "de" wraps are big business because the schlockers miss critical details like folded edges and corner joints. If vinyl isn't properly adhered to the surface, water and contaminants can creep in giving delamination a place to get a foot hold. A good way to go is don't go from dark to light colors (or other way round) because door jambs and such are time eaters. Having said that, the color changes I've seen are truly remarkable. Impossible to tell without looking very closely. And there is never any over spray on rubber parts or anywhere else.

An expensive job (a color change) around here is ~ $3K, the average is somewhere in the $1.5K range. After seeing the work he's done, there is NO WAY I'd ever go to a body shop for a complete paint job. Check these out:

BMW trunk detail. Mat Grey meets carbon wing. They use a product called "razor tape" that looks like pin stripe tape, cuts the vinyl nicely.
BMW_Wing.jpg

Camaro in progress:

Camaro_Underway.jpg

GTR. Nice ride. This was a total color change.

GTR.jpg
 

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Ballpark figure, how much would cost to have a full wrap that you shared of the audi and camaro?
 

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2006 Ridgeline RTS in Steel Blue
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SIX,

More importantly, ask not what the friend price but what the ROC member price would be. Just curious, since my long term plan is to keep my RL, at least another 75-100k miles which is another 10 to 15 years. I love my Steel Blue, I'm unsure I have that same color and look in me for that long.

Only other question, what condition does the existing body need to be in? Smooth painted surface, or minor blemishes, chips, scratches and such OK?

Curious, no rush, but those cars look amazing
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ballpark figure, how much would cost to have a full wrap that you shared of the audi and camaro?
The Audi was ~$1,900 but that included stripping a poor quality wrap and a bit of fill work on a couple of dings.

The Camaro was straight needing the standard prep and disassembly/reassembly. It was ~$1,300.

BTW: a well cared for properly treated wrap lasts 5 to 8 years. Removing it returns the vehicle to it's pre wrapped condition with no residue.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
SIX,

More importantly, ask not what the friend price but what the ROC member price would be. Just curious, since my long term plan is to keep my RL, at least another 75-100k miles which is another 10 to 15 years. I love my Steel Blue, I'm unsure I have that same color and look in me for that long.

Only other question, what condition does the existing body need to be in? Smooth painted surface, or minor blemishes, chips, scratches and such OK?

Curious, no rush, but those cars look amazing
I'll certainly ask if he's open to knocking out a ROC price but I gotta say, right now he's got more business than he can handle. In fact, he just got another garage space adjacent to the existing. He's a good friend so we'll see what he might be willing to do.

There's quite a bit of tear down to do on any vehicle. For example, the door panels come off to remove door handles. So do front & rear bumper covers, the sail panel, bed rails, bed light panels, most of the black trim, ETC.... Which is the perfect time to polish headlight lenses and add/do/change other stuff like fog lights or whatever.

Paint scratches get covered well but most dents dings or chips will show, although much less prominent. If perfection is the goal, a tiny application of body filler is the standard way to compensate for stuff you don't want to see with the new coating.

When mine gets done later this year, I'll do all the disassembly reassembly work so that saves a bunch of labor.

Get back to you guys a little later.
 

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I'll certainly ask if he's open to knocking out a ROC price but I gotta say, right now he's got more business than he can handle. In fact, he just got another garage space adjacent to the existing. He's a good friend so we'll see what he might be willing to do.

There's quite a bit of tear down to do on any vehicle. For example, the door panels come off to remove door handles. So do front & rear bumper covers, the sail panel, bed rails, bed light panels, most of the black trim, ETC.... Which is the perfect time to polish headlight lenses and add/do/change other stuff like fog lights or whatever.

Paint scratches get covered well but most dents dings or chips will show, although much less prominent. If perfection is the goal, a tiny application of body filler is the standard way to compensate for stuff you don't want to see with the new coating.

When mine gets done later this year, I'll do all the disassembly reassembly work so that saves a bunch of labor.

Get back to you guys a little later.
Please do.... I'm just around the corner & would like to consider how a possible two-tone theme might work out????
How do they handle working around things like roof rack & sunroof?? Just tape it off? I'd probably consider removing "bolt-ons" like roof rack, running boards, fog lamps, etc.

Also, if you could, I'd seriously suggest you start a new thread for this.... is WAY off topic from tweeter conversation, which might cause many potentially interested (paint/wrap) readers to miss it.... Intriguing subject in my opinion.
 

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Wow, that's impressive. Nice alternative. Thanks for sharing.

The Audi was ~$1,900 but that included stripping a poor quality wrap and a bit of fill work on a couple of dings.

The Camaro was straight needing the standard prep and disassembly/reassembly. It was ~$1,300.

BTW: a well cared for properly treated wrap lasts 5 to 8 years. Removing it returns the vehicle to it's pre wrapped condition with no residue.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Please do.... I'm just around the corner & would like to consider how a possible two-tone theme might work out????
How do they handle working around things like roof rack & sunroof?? Just tape it off? I'd probably consider removing "bolt-ons" like roof rack, running boards, fog lamps, etc.

Also, if you could, I'd seriously suggest you start a new thread for this.... is WAY off topic from tweeter conversation, which might cause many potentially interested (paint/wrap) readers to miss it.... Intriguing subject in my opinion.
Will do. I'll ask if Admin can move/re-title this thread. I should have forecast the interest would move away from a single photo of motorized acoustic lenses. HA!

Think of vinyl this way: paint can cover body parts like door handles without being removed (although I wouldn't suggest the technique) where vinyl can only cover exactly what it is attached to. In the absence of paint misting into crevices, vinyl needs to wrap around edges of those kind of parts in order to cover completely. Same goes for "cutting in" around parts like roof racks. It can be done but for the cleanest - and most durable adherence - vinyl demands it be be underneath parts attached to the body. The more disassembly the better. The only trim that doesn't get removed is that around the door windows and windshield, because those soft parts can be edge lifted to tuck vinyl under it. Almost everything else comes off.

The use of razor tap mentioned a few posts up provides a great way to implement a two tone job, but remember that (for instance) a different color on the lower part of the body vs. the upper *should* mean cutting in the inner doors and jambs where color transitions occur, which adds complexity ($).

If I can move fast enough, I'd like to be the Guinea Pig for potential ROC member pricing, but we'll see how that works out timing wise. There's a silver metallic vinyl produced by Avery I have in mind that is a shade or two deeper than the factory Billet Silver Metallic. When looking at that vinyl in the sun, it has way more depth than paint. It looks like water in a pond, like you could reach into it. In the minds eye, I see leaving the inner doors and jambs alone. Most colors are available in gloss, satin and mat. The more the finish moves towards mat, the more the root color changes hue. For example, a mat black looks like a very dark grey. Anyhoo.... I'll ask for the thread to be moved later today.

EDIT" asked admin to move this thread to:

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104985
 

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I friend of mine's son works for Disney as an audio engineer. If you've seen a Disney movie made in the past 10-years, you have heard his work. He was one of the first people to buy a B&O equipped Audi A8 when Audi and B&O teamed up. He has owned several A8s since, all equipped the B&O system.

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/car-audio/car-models/audi
Scroll down and watch the video :)

The Bang & Olufsen Advanced Sound System takes the state of the art Bang & Olufsen Sound System a step further. The customized speakers and the proprietary Bang & Olufsen technologies – Acoustic Lens Technology and the unique ICEpower technology – make it the best acoustic experience ever created for the car.

- Active loudspeaker technology
- Up to 19 high-performance loudspeakers
- Two moving tweeters on the dashboard (Acoustic Lens Technology)
- Sealed loudspeaker boxes
- Fully aluminum loudspeaker cover
- ICEpower amplifier
- Up to 1400 Watt of amplification power
- Advanced Vehicle Noise Compensation
- 5.1 Surround Sound technology (in connection with MMI Navigation Plus)
- Dedicated sound tuning


I've never heard one, did you get a chance to listen to it?
 

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Yes the tweeters have to be a mechanical nightmare. Imagine what the repair bill would be for that? I guess if you can afford that car then it doesn't matter.
The vinyl wrapping is amazing. I'm sorry to see he is way over in Cali as I'd love to do mine, but I'm on the other side of the country...
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I friend of mine's son works for Disney as an audio engineer. If you've seen a Disney movie made in the past 10-years, you have heard his work. He was one of the first people to buy a B&O equipped Audi A8 when Audi and B&O teamed up. He has owned several A8s since, all equipped the B&O system.

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/car-audio/car-models/audi
Scroll down and watch the video :)

The Bang & Olufsen Advanced Sound System takes the state of the art Bang & Olufsen Sound System a step further. The customized speakers and the proprietary Bang & Olufsen technologies – Acoustic Lens Technology and the unique ICEpower technology – make it the best acoustic experience ever created for the car.

- Active loudspeaker technology
- Up to 19 high-performance loudspeakers
- Two moving tweeters on the dashboard (Acoustic Lens Technology)
- Sealed loudspeaker boxes
- Fully aluminum loudspeaker cover
- ICEpower amplifier
- Up to 1400 Watt of amplification power
- Advanced Vehicle Noise Compensation
- 5.1 Surround Sound technology (in connection with MMI Navigation Plus)
- Dedicated sound tuning


I've never heard one, did you get a chance to listen to it?
Awesome video! Love the footage of B&O’s proto labs. Wouldn’t it be great to be involved in that level of engineering & system development? Almost as cool as being an audio engineer for Disney. Those guys are definitely ‘bleeding edge’. Hard to imagine the budgets & equipment they get to play with. Nirvana!

I did get a quick listen to the A7 system, although the source was HD FM and the material wasn't familiar, it sounded damned fine. With no time to assess the spatial qualities of the system, what I’ll point out is B&O focuses on the surround aspects of audio reproduction, basically trashing the idea of the "front stage" concept favored elsewhere. I happen to agree with that design philosophy for reasons mentioned in other threads. From the brief listen, it was immersive, solid, balanced and all around you, with convincing L/R F/R separation and very deep, smooth bass. I'm sure a high quality digital source would have been even more engaging, wish there was an hour or two to dink around with it.

My daughter drives a 2015 Jetta TDI with the premium audio system engineered by Fender. A friend has a new VW with the Dynaudio premium system. Both those systems employ full range front and rear speakers, they approach some of the best custom systems in terms of pure SPL. And both have unquestionably fine frequency balance, easily among the best to be heard in any mobile application. "Effortless" is the single word that describes well-engineered systems like these.

In the B&O video, they reference an anechoic chamber. A quick aside about them: for those not familiar, an anechoic chamber is a totally non reflective, acoustically dead environment. What makes this interesting is that kind of environment does not exist in nature.

Chamber.jpg

Virtually every space our brains are accustomed to has reflective qualities influencing the way we perceive sound. Even in the middle of a barren desert, the earth itself is a reflective surface contributing to what we hear. When standing in a room or in an outdoor space speaking to another person, the sound of our voices are a complex mix of vocal cords moving air directly from our mouths, vibrations of those sounds resonating in our chests and reflections bouncing around the room or outdoor surfaces of any physical environment. Speaker designers use anechoic chambers for the expressed purpose of eliminating external influences of sound emanating from a raw driver or an assembled speaker system. Near field mic techniques are used at varying angles and distances to assess dispersion characteristics – which is how axis graphs are (mostly) created.

Because early & late reflections are a part of the natural environment we come to know - when they are removed from our surroundings, things get really weird in the human mind.

A while back, I was invited by the Electro Voice product development team to visit their labs and test facilities. During that visit, they allowed me to step inside one of several different anechoic chambers they have on site. The memory of that experience is as fresh today as it was in the moment. Standing inside one of their larger chambers, the first thing that happens is awareness of utter silence, which is not something we experience in nature. The next thing that happens is, in the absence of other sounds, you become aware of your heart beat, not the feeling or vibration of your heart beat but the sound of it. Like listening through a stethoscope, you can hear valve flaps opening and closing. That is followed closely by what I can only describe as the sound of blood moving through veins. A sound I had never heard before, and don’t care to again. Because sound is part and parcel of the human experience, when levels are reduced to absolute minimums, our brains seek out the familiar. A sound, any sound to fill the void left by total silence. And your own body is the only thing producing sound inside an anechoic chamber.

If someone is in the chamber with you standing within arm’s reach, when they speak, the experience is even weirder than the sounds of your own body. Their voice seems to fall short of your ears, oddly dropping to the floor. Like witnessing a bizarre special effect in a movie, it’s surreal and unnatural. Your eyes see their mouth moving but the output level and sound they make is totally foreign. You strain for a normal sonic experience just trying to communicate with someone standing right in front of you. It’s almost like a trip to another dimension, one your eyes see but your ears tell you can’t be happening. It is, without a doubt the strangest physical and psychological experience I’ve ever had. Peyote and LSD have nothing on this! Those sonic experiences cannot be duplicated elsewhere. To call it eerie, creepy, uncanny or unnerving doesn’t do it justice. The guys at Electro Voice had a standing joke about making someone crazy in less than an hour. Simply lock them in an anechoic chamber and leave them to listen to themselves, they won’t survive for long. And I believe it.
 

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That chamber is pretty cool and really eerie at the same time. Without experiencing it 1st hand, one can only imagine "hearing" the blood flow through your veins, or the sound of air enter and exit your lungs.

One question. Are you an audio engineer for a very large music company or just have some really awesome ties to all the right people? That's not something that everybody is invited to try out. Damn, I wish I lived in Cali. All the cool stuff is out there!
 

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I work at Ole Miss, home of the National Center for Physical Acoustics. A couple of years ago I was invited to photograph jet engine components in one of their anechoic chambers. It wasn't my first time in an anechoic chamber, but like you said, it's memorable every time. It effects different people differently, I'm told that some people even experience dizziness and nausea. I always find anechoic chambers to be very pleasant and peaceful. This particular chamber is like a box within a box. The inner box has yellow fiberglass 'cones' with airspace between them for gasses to escape. The outer box is blue perforated metal, with more fiberglass behind the perforations, it's also vented to the outside. I was asked to include the microphone array in the photos and left to do my thing. I spent over an hour setting up strobes with red color gels to simulate the heat of the engine, along with strobes with amber gels to punch up the yellow color of the cones and finally, strobes between the inner and outer box to light up the blue outer box. They were quite pleased with the photos and I left feeling as if I had just awoken from a very refreshing nap.

Here's a link to the photo.

http://olemiss.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=6&_bqH=eJxtj91qwzAMhZ.muRskXQJrwBeupaVaEmfzT2l6I9ZSViilkLXvPzuULWzThfydIx8b6dVu8TBspLttP_LT_nHTzIfbtXg7X2S5KIs0LbM0VEkMVglTv2RPeZYQW5AOZ8WybWcFiIkBEA2AidWHimY8g42_o_g3iv9HFbl._MyFcQTVee1Mz2S7KDtDqMOMOh0lWTbYoLQId_k61bYzThip62TcjqUGcQ3sLRomED5ufml5Xlfn4.qUh9GajPOyYVmhVn28lLBaMoWHQ_SO_hvN8w.2EaVy4vPwPuyPyXpMV2NXsX8B6E9wMw--&GI_ID=

Here are more photos with the researchers"
http://olemiss.photoshelter.com/search?KW=RKJ1841&I_DSC_AND=t&I_DSC=RKJ1841+&I_USER_ID=U0000oM_2KGmhHk4&_ACT=search
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That chamber is pretty cool and really eerie at the same time. Without experiencing it 1st hand, one can only imagine "hearing" the blood flow through your veins, or the sound of air enter and exit your lungs.

One question. Are you an audio engineer for a very large music company or just have some really awesome ties to all the right people? That's not something that everybody is invited to try out. Damn, I wish I lived in Cali. All the cool stuff is out there!
As source of income during the late 70's & most of the 80's, I was an independent contractor involved in studio engineering, live sound reinforcement and commercial audio installations. At the education level, I graduated from an engineering trade school but never completed university courses, so I don't have an EE degree - there were too many life distractions to dive into mathematics (read: too busy 'partying') for that kind of seriousness.

As a contractor, I was fortunate to spend many hours in some of the analog recording studios and performance venues dotting the southern California landscape. It was a real highlight to be involved in recording and mixing music tracks on giant 48 channel MCI, NEVE and Solid State Logic consoles feeding Studer and Scully 2" 24 track analog tape machines with vast arrays of effects equipment. Studios are high tech yet warm, relaxing environments with colors and textures designed to inspire creativity of artists and engineers. Mostly local talent but there were a few encounters with some known artists, so that was cool. I was also involved in a few OmniMax theater installations, including the Ruben H. Fleet Space Theater here in Balboa Park. Lemme tell you, 70mm film is one awesome analog projection technology. From the Xenon short-arc light source to multichannel optical sound tracks, it's worth your time if you can get someone to take you into the bowels of an OmniMax projection room. You might be surprised at how willing the right person is to show off the guts of their system.

In the early 80's, I was setting up the practice stage for a large theater group when in walks Jack Bruce and Billy Cobham - who were touring at the time. They were looking for a practice hall and just happened to arrive as I was mic'ing the stage. They asked if I could arrange a 4 hour session for them, of course I jumped at the opportunity. I ended up mic'ing Billy Cobham's drum kit, which was one hell of a set up. Billy is a very nice man, no deva that guy. Very hands on. He got down on the floor with me setting up mic angles and such. All in all, 16 mic's on his kit, which is freaking huge. I watched him warm up. Looking at him from stage left, he got down on his double kick drums so hard and fast his butt came up off the stool - looking like he was running in place. The entire drum kit started to scoot across the floor. Amazing performer - hitting the surface of his percussion instruments harder than any one I've seen since.

My encounter with the Electro Voice team was the result of some development work I was doing for a dedicated kick drum microphone. They caught wind of my project and came to see what I was doing. That's how I got invited to their labs. Today, I'm an avid audio enthusiast with just enough involvement to keep me broke, "chasing the dragon" in home and mobile audio.

These days, I'm in wireless telecom engineering at the product design and certification level. My employer is a medium sized company involved in every aspect of industrial design including RF engineering, protocol compliance, SW applications and subscriber useability. One of the areas I'm involved in is sound, advancing TIA and IEEE standards for wireless telephony. A couple of shots of a contractor lab we've used for measuring mobile station acoustics:

This is "HATS" (head and torso simulator):
HATS.jpg

This is HATS ear, a critical part of measuring sound perceived by humans:
HATS_Ear.png

This is a test jig holding a UUT (unit under test), controlling distance and angle of the mic measuring free air acoustics of a UUT:
HATS_Mic.png

OK, enough social media hooey. Bored yet? Excuse the blathering.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I work at Ole Miss, home of the National Center for Physical Acoustics. A couple of years ago I was invited to photograph jet engine components in one of their anechoic chambers. It wasn't my first time in an anechoic chamber, but like you said, it's memorable every time. It effects different people differently, I'm told that some people even experience dizziness and nausea. I always find anechoic chambers to be very pleasant and peaceful. This particular chamber is like a box within a box. The inner box has yellow fiberglass 'cones' with airspace between them for gasses to escape. The outer box is blue perforated metal, with more fiberglass behind the perforations, it's also vented to the outside. I was asked to include the microphone array in the photos and left to do my thing. I spent over an hour setting up strobes with red color gels to simulate the heat of the engine, along with strobes with amber gels to punch up the yellow color of the cones and finally, strobes between the inner and outer box to light up the blue outer box. They were quite pleased with the photos and I left feeling as if I had just awoken from a very refreshing nap.

Here's a link to the photo.

http://olemiss.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=6&_bqH=eJxtj91qwzAMhZ.muRskXQJrwBeupaVaEmfzT2l6I9ZSViilkLXvPzuULWzThfydIx8b6dVu8TBspLttP_LT_nHTzIfbtXg7X2S5KIs0LbM0VEkMVglTv2RPeZYQW5AOZ8WybWcFiIkBEA2AidWHimY8g42_o_g3iv9HFbl._MyFcQTVee1Mz2S7KDtDqMOMOh0lWTbYoLQId_k61bYzThip62TcjqUGcQ3sLRomED5ufml5Xlfn4.qUh9GajPOyYVmhVn28lLBaMoWHQ_SO_hvN8w.2EaVy4vPwPuyPyXpMV2NXsX8B6E9wMw--&GI_ID=

Here are more photos with the researchers"
http://olemiss.photoshelter.com/search?KW=RKJ1841&I_DSC_AND=t&I_DSC=RKJ1841+&I_USER_ID=U0000oM_2KGmhHk4&_ACT=search
Totally awesome images Bob! I'm guessing you didn't use a camera phone to capture those images. LOL. Not too many people have had the opportunity to be in one of those rooms. You are a lucky guy! If you got paid to be there, you are even more fortunate.

The Orfield Labs chamber in Minnesota has a room dubbed "the quietest place on earth" measured at 9db below the 0db threshold of human perception. Their most controlled room has 3 foot deep fiberglass acoustic wedges and double walls of insulated steel and a foot deep thick concrete.

The "average" bedroom is supposed to measure around 30db of ambient noise, since we sleep in that kind of 'noise', that lab must spooky quiet. Urban legend says spending time there causes hallucinations. I dunno, but I can imagine that claim isn't too far from reality.
 

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As a San Diegan by birth, I visit the Reuben E. Fleet when I can and highly recommend it for those visiting the area.

Speaking of IMAX:

For those going to DC I highly recommend the Lockheed-Martin IMAX Theater at the Smithsonian in the National Air and Space Museum. They are showing the full feature film "Interstellar" there now in addition to the other amazing features like "The Stars Tonight".
 
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