[DriveAllNight]

I'm new to Honda, before a couple of weeks ago I had no idea what a VCM was, I tried to figure out if this is something I need to worry about. I tried to ask on another thread, that didn't go well. Sorry I'm not a mechanic or a gearhead I'm just trying to figure it all out.

Bottom line is that I will easily put over 30k + miles on my truck a year. I will easily pass 100k in 4 years, one of the reasons I bought the Ridgeline is that it is a Honda and should last .

So with that said , has any G1 owners put up 100k+ and did they put on the vcmuzzler on or if they didn't did they run into issues?

I'm just trying to do what I can to get the most out of my new truck, and any info will help

I read the posting from the guy who makes it. It answered a lot of questions, very informative, but I'd like to hear real world experience also.

Thanks.

Oh and if you don't want to answer, there is no need to tell me to read all of the other postings - I have read a lot of them, I'm sure not all. I'm a little worried about messing with a brand new engine that cost over 40,000 and won't be paid off for a while, and if it is something I really need to do.

 

[Carsmak]

Gen 1 from 2006-2014 did not have VCM.

If it was me, and I was in your situation I'd either buy a Honda Care Warranty or Disable the VCM.

I've read too many horror stories on Piloteers to even consider keeping VCM

 

[RidgeHawk]

My gen 1 has over 268k on it. Still runs great. Putting archoil in the oil and gas now just to see if I notice a difference. After the fuel treatment it seems to have a little more pep...but every now and then I'll get a rough idle. As stated earlier it doesn't have vcm.

 

[Blueboy]

I'm new to Honda, before a couple of weeks ago I had no idea what a VCM was, I tried to figure out if this is something I need to worry about. I tried to ask on another thread, that didn't go well. Sorry I'm not a mechanic or a gearhead I'm just trying to figure it all out.

Bottom line is that I will easily put over 30k + miles on my truck a year. I will easily pass 100k in 4 years, one of the reasons I bought the Ridgeline is that it is a Honda and should last .

So with that said , has any G1 owners put up 100k+ and did they put on the vcmuzzler on or if they didn't did they run into issues?

I'm just trying to do what I can to get the most out of my new truck, and any info will help

I read the posting from the guy who makes it. It answered a lot of questions, very informative, but I'd like to hear real world experience also.

Thanks.

Oh and if you don't want to answer, there is no need to tell me to read all of the other postings - I have read a lot of them, I'm sure not all. I'm a little worried about messing with a brand new engine that cost over 40,000 and won't be paid off for a while, and if it is something I really need to do.

As far as I'm concerned worrying about the VCM harming your engine is a bunch of Hooey. Of all the things in this world to worry about that would be last on my list. Of all the companies out there Honda is one of the most conservative! They waited 3 or 4 years before they would use direct injection. That could do a lot more damage than VCM! Fear-mongers just want to sell you a bill of goods. Probably at a nice profit. If it were me I'd find something else to worry about. Nope. Don't jump on that band-wagon.

 

[Chadasaurus]

As far as I'm concerned worrying about the VCM harming your engine is a bunch of Hooey. Of all the things in this world to worry about that would be last on my list. Of all the companies out there Honda is one of the most conservative! They waited 3 or 4 years before they would use direct injection. That could do a lot more damage than VCM! Fear-mongers just want to sell you a bill of goods. Probably at a nice profit. If it were me I'd find something else to worry about. Nope. Don't jump on that band-wagon.

I would say that worrying about VCM is not at the top of my list, but its certainly not last either. Long term reliability on my new ~$40k vehicle is not something to ignore. Honda likely put in tons of engineering work into VCM, but that doesn't guarantee its flawless. Unfortunately there seems to be evidence that there have been issues in Honda Pilots. I personally am hesitant to put an "engine mod" into my new vehicle, but I am definitely considering it.

 

[CCDAstro]

As far as I'm concerned worrying about the VCM harming your engine is a bunch of Hooey. Of all the things in this world to worry about that would be last on my list. Of all the companies out there Honda is one of the most conservative! They waited 3 or 4 years before they would use direct injection. That could do a lot more damage than VCM! Fear-mongers just want to sell you a bill of goods. Probably at a nice profit. If it were me I'd find something else to worry about. Nope. Don't jump on that band-wagon.

Well, said. This is especially true in my case since I do not remember the last time we put more than about 60,000 on a vehicle so even if there are VCM issues, they will probably be the next owner's problem.

I should also point out, with regard to the lawsuit and settlement, that companies often settle these things just to dispose of them. You do not have to be right to bring a lawsuit and you do not have to be wrong to settle one. I am not familiar with the particulars of that case, but that is a well known situation to anyone familiar with lawsuits.

I think this is one of those "agree to disagree" issues. Nobody is going convince the VCM opponents that it is safe to use and nobody is going to convince the rest that putting an unauthorized mod on a new vehicle is a good idea.

 

[speedlever]

Fear-mongers just want to sell you a bill of goods. Probably at a nice profit. If it were me I'd find something else to worry about. Nope. Don't jump on that band-wagon.

On what basis do you make that statement?

I merely have to refer to the lawsuit referenced here to substantiate the concern:
Honda settles class-action lawsuit over oil-burning V6s - Autoblog

Then of course you can navigate to the forum of your choice to read about issues related to VCM (but not the ROC since VCM was only introduced for the G2 RL). Piloteers.org would likely be a good site. BITOG another.

it doesn't matter to me whether or not you believe the issue is real or significant. But make sure you make an educated decision and not one based on a false premise of snake oil (which yes, there is plenty of that to steer clear of as well).

IMO, there is simply too much evidence of issues that arise from VCM to ignore. If you only keep a vehicle for a couple of years and trade it off, then the impact on you may be insignificant. But I'm coming from a long-term ownership perspective and personally, will not have VCM on any vehicle I buy unless I have no choice... in which case I will look for a way to defeat it, if possible.

I am convinced of the negative aspects of VCM. If you are not, so be it. After all, Honda will be glad to sell you another vehicle in a few years. (maybe VCM is their version of snake oil) >

 

[rxitrxit]

I have. A new. RL and am heitant to install a modification to the engine. However, if I start to notice that oil is being burned off. I will likely install the muzzled. I only have about 600 miles on it so far and have not noticed any issue with VCM yet...

 

[speedlever]

I have. A new. RL and am heitant to install a modification to the engine. However, if I start to notice that oil is being burned off. I will likely install the muzzled. I only have about 600 miles on it so far and have not noticed any issue with VCM yet...

The OP asked about G1 RLs... not knowing the G1 RL does not have VCM. But your concern is valid for your new G2. Just make an informed decision is my suggestion.

 

[Carsmak]

I have. A new. RL and am heitant to install a modification to the engine. However, if I start to notice that oil is being burned off. I will likely install the muzzled. I only have about 600 miles on it so far and have not noticed any issue with VCM yet...

The problem is when your burning/using 1qt of oil per 1000 miles, you have internal engine damage, and just hope like hell it occurs in the first 3yr/36k or it falls within the 5yr/60k powertrain warranty (Honda has lots of wiggle room in that) or some state (think California & CARB) finds a way to make it apart of the emissions warranty. EDIT: Yet, Honda & their dealers accept 1 qt per 1000 miles as acceptable. IMHO, improving fuel economy and polluting more, sounds very VW!
:|

Furthermore, your 3 year old trade in will be of little value to me, I won't trust them as trade in's because the VCM time bomb will have been ticking for 3 years unchecked, and will likely be the fuel for many trade-ins.
:surprise:

As for modding a $40k truck, Jeep Wrangler, Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado and Toyota Tacoma users do all sorts of mods all the time. Do you think Lift Kits, Engine Tuners, Turbo Chargers, Super Chargers and Wheel changes are all approved modifications.
>

VCMuzzler is minimal, tricking the engine into thinking it is running a few degrees cooler so the VCM doesn't engage.
:grin:

 

[Conestoga]

On what basis do you make that statement?

I merely have to refer to the lawsuit referenced here to substantiate the concern:
Honda settles class-action lawsuit over oil-burning V6s - Autoblog

Then of course you can navigate to the forum of your choice to read about issues related to VCM (but not the ROC since VCM was only introduced for the G2 RL). Piloteers.org would likely be a good site. BITOG another.

Believe it or not, it matters not to me. But make sure you make an educated decision and not one based on a false premise of snake oil (which yes, there is plenty of that to steer clear of as well).

IMO, there is simply too much evidence of issues that arise from VCM to ignore. If you only keep a vehicle for a couple of years and trade it off, then the impact on you may be insignificant. But I'm coming from a long-term ownership perspective and personally, will not have VCM on any vehicle I buy unless I have no choice... in which case I will look for a way to defeat it, if possible.

I am convinced of the negative aspects of VCM. If you are not, so be it. After all, Honda will be glad to sell you another vehicle is a few years. (maybe VCM is their version of snake oil) >

Does anybody know if future models were included in that 8 year extended powertrain warranty? I'd be north of 280k miles by then, so it might be an acceptable safety net for me.

I'm all worried now.

Verbatim very well may have a viable solution, and I really appreciate the effort he has put into the product, as well as educating us on the issue. For me to fully accept his workaround, more time needs to pass to reveal the full story of the VCMuzzler II. Talented and knowledgeable as he might be, he's not the typical team of specialists/engineers that would fully vet a product like this.

Knowing that I may have to mutter "some dude on a forum sold me a doohickey to get around VCM" one day, is very unsettling. It would be one thing if this was discovered after I purchased the vehicle, but I do not even own it yet.

 

[CCDAstro]

As for modding a $40k truck, Jeep Wrangler, Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado and Toyota Tacoma users do all sorts of mods all the time. Do you think Lift Kits, Engine Tuners, Turbo Chargers, Super Chargers and Wheel changes are all approved modifications.

Two things are obvious:

1) One can do what one wants to one's own vehicle as long as it is still street legal (although some lifts occasionally are not).

2) The fact that lots of folks do a thing does not necessarily make those things good ideas.

So back to "agree to disagree":wink:

 

[cccbock]

OP stated he (or she) was not a mechanic but became concerned reading about the VCM. Good for him/her.

I am a mechanic and have owned about 30 vehicles over the years, not all Honda, but many were Honda. Several of those vehicles were race cars for which I built engines. I drive in a similar fashion to the OP (30k miles per year). I have owned two G1 Ridgelines, the first went to 196,000 miles before trading it for RL#2. It had all original driveline when it was traded. I wish I had kept it.

The second RL has 70k miles on it now. All original driveline, no problems whatsoever.

Both these trucks were and are used to tow significant trailers.

Neither of these trucks has VCM. I would not touch a car or truck with VCM on it unless there was a legit way to turn it off (like maybe a "tow mode" for example). The problem as I see it is that the damage caused by the VCM (the VCM MUST cause damage because it creates an artificial imbalance in the engine) will likely show up after the Honda warranty expires. Honda had to install significant additional dampeners in the motor mounts to quell the vibration.

So the OP wanted to know if there is a worry about his/her specific driving characteristics. I SAY YES. If you drive only 8000 miles a year and trade every 2 or 3 years...then probably no. The VCM problem will transfer to next buyer down the line.

 

[CCDAstro]

If you drive only 8000 miles a year and trade every 2 or 3 years...then probably no. The VCM problem will transfer to next buyer down the line.

This brings up a point. I assume that since this is engine/drivetrain it is likely that the powertrain warranty would be the applicable one, no?

I mention this because it would seem that any VCM issue would be 100% mileage related and not related to age in years since any theoretical damage would only be possible when it is running (unless it idles in park most of it's life - traffic jams in LA?).:wink:

Devil's Advocate: >

For that reason and assuming Honda is evil/incompetent as many have implied, they would not want things to go South until after 5 years/50,000. Since the 5 years is not relevant in terms of when to "expect" such a problem, what one has to worry about is mileage over 50,000. Make sense? Given that failure would be somewhat unpredictable Honda would want to pad that a bit so say 60,000.

Sooooo...... I only had 47,500 miles on my G1 after 10 years and usually trade after 5-7 years. I am not going to get too excited.

 

[Blueboy]

On what basis do you make that statement?

I merely have to refer to the lawsuit referenced here to substantiate the concern:
Honda settles class-action lawsuit over oil-burning V6s - Autoblog

Then of course you can navigate to the forum of your choice to read about issues related to VCM (but not the ROC since VCM was only introduced for the G2 RL). Piloteers.org would likely be a good site. BITOG another.

it doesn't matter to me whether or not you believe the issue is real or significant. But make sure you make an educated decision and not one based on a false premise of snake oil (which yes, there is plenty of that to steer clear of as well).

IMO, there is simply too much evidence of issues that arise from VCM to ignore. If you only keep a vehicle for a couple of years and trade it off, then the impact on you may be insignificant. But I'm coming from a long-term ownership perspective and personally, will not have VCM on any vehicle I buy unless I have no choice... in which case I will look for a way to defeat it, if possible.

I am convinced of the negative aspects of VCM. If you are not, so be it. After all, Honda will be glad to sell you another vehicle in a few years. (maybe VCM is their version of snake oil) >

There is absolutely no proof presented that VCM was in any way the cause of the oil problems. Of course those cars had VCM since all the V6's do! 1.6 million is relatively few of all the millions out there. No cause and effect proved at all. A reporter "hinted" and not even stated such so that some sharp-eyed public would jump at a conclusion. You'll have to do better than that to convince any thinking person.

 

[speedlever]

There is absolutely no proof presented that VCM was in any way the cause of the oil problems. Of course those cars had VCM since all the V6's do! 1.6 million is relatively few of all the millions out there. No cause and effect proved at all. A reporter "hinted" and not even stated such so that some sharp-eyed public would jump at a conclusion. You'll have to do better than that to convince any thinking person.

Fine by me. I simply suggest do your own due diligence. Talk to the mechanics at your local Honda shop, etc. or ignore it if it suits your purpose. Regardless, to call the VCMuzzler snake oil is a large stretch imo, and to deny the problem, even more so.

 

[CCDAstro]

There is absolutely no proof presented that VCM was in any way the cause of the oil problems. A reporter "hinted" and not even stated such so that some sharp-eyed public would jump at a conclusion. You'll have to do better than that to convince any thinking person.

As I said above about lawsuits: You do not have to be right to bring a lawsuit and you do not have to be wrong to settle one. I am not familiar with the particulars of that case, but that is a well known situation to anyone familiar with lawsuits.

 

[verbatim]

Fear-mongers just want to sell you a bill of goods. Probably at a nice profit. If it were me I'd find something else to worry about. Nope. Don't jump on that band-wagon.

You're entitled to your opinion on VCM, but you don't have to be rude. I'm not a fear monger, I'm someone who was experiencing a problem with VCM vibrations, so I came up with a fix for it. During my journey to find out why it was happening, I discovered all the other reported problems and the lawsuit, extended warranty, etc. I've been watching this for years now and I can tell you that it's not a lot of "hooey". No, it doesn't affect every vehicle, but it's clear that VCM is a questionable technology for 1 mph and that running on
all cylinders all the time is better for the engine.

As I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but the content of your post is offensive to all those that DID experience problems with their vehicle that was directly related to VCM.

Well, said. This is especially true in my case since I do not remember the last time we put more than about 60,000 on a vehicle so even if there are VCM issues, they will probably be the next owner's problem.

Not many owners are the same as you in this respect. Not sure why you would even mention this if you truly thought there was no issue with VCM. By the way, many owners had misfire and/or vibration issues before 60K, me included.

I should also point out, with regard to the lawsuit and settlement, that companies often settle these things just to dispose of them.

The cost to Honda on this has been considerable. Companies settle when then know they're going to lose, not when they know they're going to win. You really think Honda wanted all the bad press associated with this and the extended warranty letters with the explanation that they had to send to Honda owners? If they had a slam dunk case, they would have fought it to the end to bury the issue. They didn't, and they've been fixing vehicles ever since. Saying they settled because they wanted to dispose of it is exactly the opposite of what happened, because now everyone knows about it. They settled because that was the better option than losing, which would have been even worse press and could have cost them more. Again, saying this isn't a problem because you personally haven't experienced it is somewhat insulting to those that have.

... nobody is going to convince the rest that putting an unauthorized mod on a new vehicle is a good idea.

As mentioned, as unauthorized mods go, this is pretty benign considering the performance mods people do. Based on the number of sales and the average mileage people put on their vehicles in a year, there's around 20,000,000 miles on the VCMuzzler with no reported issues, no failed smog tests and no warranty cancellations.

I think this is one of those "agree to disagree" issues.

That's something we agree on! :grin: I'm going to try to avoid these types of discussions in the future. Not that I'll always be successful, lol.

 

[eagle2]

verbatim: I am most impressed with your technical knowledge and your ability to express that knowledge to the average user. I think you've come up with a wonderful device and if I were buying a new second-generation Ridgeline it would be the first thing I would do would be to put it on.

I'm an old man so my memory is failing badly so I don't recall the name of our resident pro-who has given us so much valuable information. But I ask him what he would do regarding this device and he said if it were him and he was buying a new Ridgeline that's what he would do, put it on immediately. That's good enough for me because he's a man who really knows what he's talking about. The simple way that you fool the VCM into not activating looks like a work of pure genius to me. And not only are you helping those who implement it on their new Ridgeline but just think of all the people in the future who by their used vehicle. They won't be buying a potential timebomb.

Keep up the good work and may fortunes smile upon you. If this is snake oil,...give me more of it!!!!!

Eagle II

 

[Cochise111]

As far as I'm concerned worrying about the VCM harming your engine is a bunch of Hooey. Of all the things in this world to worry about that would be last on my list. Of all the companies out there Honda is one of the most conservative! They waited 3 or 4 years before they would use direct injection. That could do a lot more damage than VCM! Fear-mongers just want to sell you a bill of goods. Probably at a nice profit. If it were me I'd find something else to worry about. Nope. Don't jump on that band-wagon.

Before you make a comment like that you should spend a little time in the Honda service department (as I have). When you see the amount of Pilot internal engine work occurring due to VCM, you would change your tune.