You are really trying to stir the pot. LOL Honda engineers listened to absolutely nothing that Gen 1 RL owners suggested as improvements. They diminished some of the unique features and totally removed some of the positives of the original vehicle. There are some genuine improvements in performance and electronics, but the basic truck-like utility is gone. Storage space and access/egress are reduced. The in-bed trunk is much smaller. Off-road capability is reduced. One of the most egregious faults is the inability to increase tire size or lift the vehicle. Subarus have almost an inch more ground clearance. Many Gen 1 RL owners are dumbfounded as to why Honda would have abandoned the good and added bad. As some say in the country, "Honda's got it all knowed up." We will see.
Did Honda Really Listen ?
There are some good interviews with the Ridgeline engineers
on youtube, particularly an Autoline.tv episode.
One of the lead engineers said that Honda closely interviewed
Ridgeline owners and others about what they liked and what
they wanted on a new Ridgeline.
From the comments of first generation owners, I don't think
that they listened closely, and that they failed to ask the
right questions.
What do you think?
mike
on youtube, particularly an Autoline.tv episode.
One of the lead engineers said that Honda closely interviewed
Ridgeline owners and others about what they liked and what
they wanted on a new Ridgeline.
From the comments of first generation owners, I don't think
that they listened closely, and that they failed to ask the
right questions.
What do you think?
mike
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Cochise 111 on did Honda Really Listen ?
I agree Cochise 111. You have the clearest summary of
differences.
Sad but true. Not the same as first generation.
New Ridgeline is more car, less truck.
Still, it's nice to have a current Ridgeline, even if it
falls short of the original.
I had passed on first generation, got a Tacoma, and
was happy to see a new Ridgeline appear.
I don't expect it to be as reliable [what is ?], but the
comfort and utility difference is incredible.
i don't expect that it will sell enough to justify significant
revision, and fear that Honda will turn its back on the
Ridgeline after a short while, will stop advertising and
so forth, letting the sales fall off again.
So, i'll enjoy it for what it is, and try not to think too
much about what it may have become.
mike
I agree Cochise 111. You have the clearest summary of
differences.
Sad but true. Not the same as first generation.
New Ridgeline is more car, less truck.
Still, it's nice to have a current Ridgeline, even if it
falls short of the original.
I had passed on first generation, got a Tacoma, and
was happy to see a new Ridgeline appear.
I don't expect it to be as reliable [what is ?], but the
comfort and utility difference is incredible.
i don't expect that it will sell enough to justify significant
revision, and fear that Honda will turn its back on the
Ridgeline after a short while, will stop advertising and
so forth, letting the sales fall off again.
So, i'll enjoy it for what it is, and try not to think too
much about what it may have become.
mike
So if Ford comes out with a F-150 that has a sloped nose for reduced drag and much more car-like, would that not be a "truck". I think in the future that more trucks will be like the RL do to fuel economy standards.
Re: Cochise 111 on did Honda Really Listen ?
I didn't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm. I wasn't sure if you had purchased a Gen 2. I'm trying very hard to like the new version. I'm just incensed that Honda paid no heed to what we as genuine owners asked them to do with a future model that could improve its utility and appeal. As you can tell from the tone of the forum, many other RL owners are aggravated as well. I'm certain the new RL is a great vehicle aside from the potential initial quality issues, but many of the features that first attracted us are history. After being here for a decade voicing our opinions, which we thought would change the GL for the better, Honda let us down. Many are just voicing their frustrations, and I am one of them.I agree Cochise 111. You have the clearest summary of
differences.
Sad but true. Not the same as first generation.
New Ridgeline is more car, less truck.
Still, it's nice to have a current Ridgeline, even if it
falls short of the original.
I had passed on first generation, got a Tacoma, and
was happy to see a new Ridgeline appear.
I don't expect it to be as reliable [what is ?], but the
comfort and utility difference is incredible.
i don't expect that it will sell enough to justify significant
revision, and fear that Honda will turn its back on the
Ridgeline after a short while, will stop advertising and
so forth, letting the sales fall off again.
So, i'll enjoy it for what it is, and try not to think too
much about what it may have become.
mike
There are other ways to improve fuel economy than having the same front end as an Accord.So if Ford comes out with a F-150 that has a sloped nose for reduced drag and much more car-like, would that not be a "truck". I think in the future that more trucks will be like the RL do to fuel economy standards.
I'm sure they asked some questions, and pondered the meaning of the given answers to a degree.
But, to a larger degree it is hard for Honda to ignore the fact that crossovers are selling quite well, and the pseudo-pickup market remained ripe with opportunity. They could have gone in a completely new direction by naming it something else, but they kept many of the lovable traits of the G1 while fulfilling their vision of what they thought might sell the most units. After all, sales are what matters most to Honda.
Time will show us whether they got it right, or not.
Personally, they got my attention ... and I'm admittedly a bit of a Toyota fan boy.
But, to a larger degree it is hard for Honda to ignore the fact that crossovers are selling quite well, and the pseudo-pickup market remained ripe with opportunity. They could have gone in a completely new direction by naming it something else, but they kept many of the lovable traits of the G1 while fulfilling their vision of what they thought might sell the most units. After all, sales are what matters most to Honda.
Time will show us whether they got it right, or not.
Personally, they got my attention ... and I'm admittedly a bit of a Toyota fan boy.
The original Honda Ridgeline project manager/engineer had a great relationship with the early GEN 1 owners. Gary Flynt was the ideal guy to have been put in charge of the RL project. Listening to him at the St Louis RL meet in 2007 was a learning experience for all. Be interesting to hear what he would have to say about today's GEN II.There are some good interviews with the Ridgeline engineers
on youtube, particularly an Autoline.tv episode.
One of the lead engineers said that Honda closely interviewed
Ridgeline owners and others about what they liked and what
they wanted on a new Ridgeline.
From the comments of first generation owners, I don't think
that they listened closely, and that they failed to ask the
right questions.
What do you think?
mike
Of course they listened. As the long term Gen 1 forum members will remember, the overwhelming #1 concern of the Gen 1 crowd was always "give us more mpgs". Honda listened, and the Gen 2 just like the 2016 Pilot is optimized to provide higher gas mileage than Gen 1.
Of course, designing for higher mpg requires some compromises to the trucky qualities, and doubtless Honda figured "Well, we can scratch that higher mpg itch easily and meet the #1 request of the users, we can just do a cheap and easy Pilot design transfer and they will love it, no need to spend time and money designing unique trucky features because obviously Gen 1 owners don't care much about those."
They listened to what the majority of Gen 1 owners wanted, and they provided a product that hit the bullseye dead center for that majority. That's why Gen 2 is going to be a big success.
Of course, designing for higher mpg requires some compromises to the trucky qualities, and doubtless Honda figured "Well, we can scratch that higher mpg itch easily and meet the #1 request of the users, we can just do a cheap and easy Pilot design transfer and they will love it, no need to spend time and money designing unique trucky features because obviously Gen 1 owners don't care much about those."
They listened to what the majority of Gen 1 owners wanted, and they provided a product that hit the bullseye dead center for that majority. That's why Gen 2 is going to be a big success.
I totally Agree with you, Uncle Festus, if anyone bothers to use the Search in the upper right of the page, you'll find there are multiple threads, and many pages of Posts of "this things MPG's sucks".
Some would buy one "even new" and within months be absolutely floored at how bad the MPG's were, (EDIT coming from "other Honda's" IMHO)
For me I was always amazed, looking at the side the G1 has the aerodynamic profile of a brick, or possibly 3 bricks stacked on top of each other, how people missed that during purchase always dumbfounded me.
It was designed in '02-'04, and if you compare it to trucks from that era, it was a 20-25% improvement. The big 3 went in a different direction, Cyl deactivation,
(EDIT-Additional Thoughts)..... Various Aero Tech, Advanced Diesel & Gasoline Engine enhancements.
Now they have caught up to the G1, So Honda kept jumping up, but the Big 3 have brought back there "Mid/Small" size and they are right there.
Honda should have done more and rather than 12 variations some should be either Diesel or Hybrid, just to get so far ahead everyone would be more impressed.
Time & Sales will tell, As will the CAFE standards that are in the near future...
Some would buy one "even new" and within months be absolutely floored at how bad the MPG's were, (EDIT coming from "other Honda's" IMHO)
For me I was always amazed, looking at the side the G1 has the aerodynamic profile of a brick, or possibly 3 bricks stacked on top of each other, how people missed that during purchase always dumbfounded me.
It was designed in '02-'04, and if you compare it to trucks from that era, it was a 20-25% improvement. The big 3 went in a different direction, Cyl deactivation,
(EDIT-Additional Thoughts)..... Various Aero Tech, Advanced Diesel & Gasoline Engine enhancements.
Now they have caught up to the G1, So Honda kept jumping up, but the Big 3 have brought back there "Mid/Small" size and they are right there.
Honda should have done more and rather than 12 variations some should be either Diesel or Hybrid, just to get so far ahead everyone would be more impressed.
Time & Sales will tell, As will the CAFE standards that are in the near future...
Been gassing up RL's for 11 years (last 3 months an exception LOL) and always checked the MPG on Fuelly. Always in the MPG range on the window sticker, actually above a few times. Can't complain when it does what it says it will do.I totally Agree with you, Uncle Festus, if anyone bothers to use the Search in the upper right of the page, you'll find there are multiple threads, and many pages of Posts of "this things "MPG's" sucks. Someone would buy one "even new" and within months be absolutely floored at how bad the MPG's were.
Of all the back and forth blather that we have seen on all the love it/hate it threads, this is the only indisputable one.Time will show us whether they got it right, or not.
Honda, and almost every other manufacturer, makes vehicles to sell as many as possible. This means making as many people as possible like the vehicle enough to buy one.
Clearly this means as many people as possible from the whole vehicle buying population, not just former RL owners and not even just buyers wanting trucks.
I am convinced that what Honda is trying to do is get folks who would not normally buy a truck to buy the new RL. Or to put it another way, they are not trying to cut the "truck" pie into more pieces, they are trying to make a bigger pie.
This is why they probably do not care that much about what G1 owners want - that is not a big part of their target market (after all, they did not sell all that well, as many have pointed out).
But at the end of the day (as Conestoga said), time, not opinions here, will tell.
You're on to something, here. We probably all need to recognize this simple fact: NO car/truck company is primarily in the business of building cars and trucks. Each and every manufacturer is, first and foremost, in the business of making money. The resulting products are sometimes loved (BMW 3 Series, VW GTI) and sometimes reviled (Pontiac Aztek, of course!), but all are the result of a manufacturer's best analysis of what will make them the most money.They could have gone in a completely new direction by naming it something else, but they kept many of the lovable traits of the G1 while fulfilling their vision of what they thought might sell the most units. After all, sales are what matters most to Honda.
Profit is more than just sales numbers, of course--R&D, materials, assembly, etc. all factor into the final profit margin, especially for a vehicle that sells in less than F-150 numbers. The people at Honda had to balance all these things in creating a new Ridgeline. The G2 is the result of their calculations. Am I disappointed in some of their decisions? You bet I am. (Ground clearance, I'm looking at YOU.) But I also understand that they looked at projected sales, balanced that with the costs associated with a new Ridge and said, "here's the version that will make us the most money." We'll see if they were right.
Right on. That is a variation of what I said in the post above. They want to sell lots of vehicles and a broader market will help that.You're on to something, here...... But I also understand that they looked at projected sales, balanced that with the costs associated with a new Ridge and said, "here's the version that will make us the most money." We'll see if they were right.
Once again, time will tell and folks here can project all they want, I am sure they will, but only time will tell.
My main objection is that it appears they were more concerned with cutting costs than actually designing a vehicle that will sell. Why on earth would you make door openings smaller or eliminate all of the good storage in the cab? I believe I would also enjoy ventilated seats much more than speakers in the bed.
And what costs are there when "Ventilated Seats" are available in "Some" ONE market and not the other? WTFMy main objection is that it appears they were more concerned with cutting costs than actually designing a vehicle that will sell. Why on earth would you make door openings smaller or eliminate all of the good storage in the cab? I believe I would also enjoy ventilated seats much more than speakers in the bed.
Having just come back from the dealership and getting in and out of the backseat of the G2, this is being blown way out of proportion. I'm 6 ft tall and 230 lbs and had absolutely no problem getting in and out of the back seat. For the guy that said he wouldn't be able to get a good size dog crate back there without taking it apart, he might be right. To the guy in another thread that said his daughter couldn't get in and out, perhaps it's not the truck that has the problem.Why on earth would you make door openings smaller
Now the question is: did they listen to ROC G1 owners and past owners about what the next Ridgeline should be? I bet you they didn't. Most vehicle owners don't put anywhere near as much time into thinking about their wheels as people on this forum do. I don't think ROC members are representative of the typical Ridgeline G1 owner. But they almost certainly had focus groups and surveys. They needed to keep what small base they had and they knew that some of the best ideas would come from people who live with the first-generation day in and day out.
Ok I do hear what you are saying but by leaving out a lot of great features from gen 1 and a couple of key truck market like features (improved towing ) which by the way would not affect anyone here even if it could tow a bit more, or maybe 9" clearance or at least the ability for some to lift even if its a small percentage, how do they do that than? Its a good question. The truck that can do the most would be ideal for everybody the entire market as you said and the one that would indicate they want to sell as many as they could. They could do this, but they did not, thats on Honda, my guess has nothing to do with market thats BS coverup its money its a budget they didn't have it an didn't bother with it. Why because they know darn well their not a truck company but they could have done better then they did. Its not bad either its good but they left a lot out thats a fact. Not hate either.Right on. That is a variation of what I said in the post above. They want to sell lots of vehicles and a broader market will help that.
Once again, time will tell and folks here can project all they want, I am sure they will, but only time will tell.
IMO they didn't do that they chose the safe way the way that cost the least of amount money and that way usually doesn't reap any type of long term business success. Honda's recent past has not been very good specifically in many areas whether its marketing, reliability, poor design features which leads to drop models and that is not an opinion that is just a fact. Its the truth and it can hurt some. It still may not defer you from buying a gen2 but it will for many. Lets not fool ourselves here and say this is a home run year after year. Many knowable gen 1 owners know darn well its always been a niche and accept that but they are also smart enough to know they left a lot out on the model.
I agree, I found the same thing when I drove one yesterday. Now the back seat is not much of a priority for me but it would not have been that big a deal even if it was. It just seems nitpicky to me but folks can do what they want.Having just come back from the dealership and getting in and out of the backseat of the G2, this is being blown way out of proportion. I'm 6 ft tall and 230 lbs and had absolutely no problem getting in and out of the back seat. For the guy that said he wouldn't be able to get a good size dog crate back there without taking it apart, he might be right. To the guy in another thread that said his daughter couldn't get in and out, perhaps it's not the truck that has the problem.
Did not see that post but that daughter would either have to have been handicapped, huge, or just a PITA to have a real problem with those doors.
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums
Honda Ridgeline Owners Club, forum community to discuss reviews, accessories, performance, care, mods, and more.
Full Forum Listing
