[buxta]

I have a 2006 Ridgline which I have owned since new.

It has 85,000 miles, and all scheduled maintenance has been performed.

It has given me VERY few problems until today...

About 30 minutes ago I turned left from a stop sign onto a busy road at a junction with a curve. The truck started, but then lost ALL power and made a very loud whining/rotating/rubbing sound.

Oncoming cars had to slow down and honked (before I could get the hazard lights flashing), but the small momentum I had fortunately got me across the road.

I pulled over and tried to work out what was going on. The sound was not there when the engine was at idle, but as soon as I tried to move forward, the very loud rotating sound started again, and the truck had very little power.

Fortunately I was on a hill and was able to roll down to a safer location. I parked and noticed that the truck still rolled when in 'P'.

There is no noise when the engine idles. The smae noise and lack of power occurs in all gears including reverse.

I do not see any liquid or spray under the hood.

There were no weird noises or anything else strange in the lead-up to this failure.

Does anyone please have any guidance before I have it towed to Honda? I don't think my local guy can do a transmission replacement, but is it worth taking it there first?

Many thanks,

b.

 

[Carsmak]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

OK, First check the Coolant Overflow, does it look "Blue", if it's red or pink it could be SMOD, Strawberry Milkshake of Death. Another possibility is, I've read a few threads on Torque Converter issues. If it was me and this "Local Guy" is a Transmission Shop you trust, I'd have it towed there. Worse case is towing it to the Honda Dealer from there.

Maybe call the transmission shop and discuss with them on the phone, do they work on Honda Transmissions (Yes they are different) and go from there.

I'll try to find the torque converter threads, but below are the SMOD ones.

All the following threads are on Transmission/Radiator(SMOD) issues.

Radiator Failure @ Cooler Lines

Best Radiator Replacement

Pictures of Corroded/Rusted Radiator Fittings

Radiator Fail on 2006

UOA on ATF

Anatomy of OEM Denso Radiator

Poll(Never Posted) on Radiator/Trans Cooler Solution

 

[IanRTL]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

As was said, check all the fluids. Ensure the coolant is still blue and doesn't look to be a milky pink color. If it's pink, you've got the SMOD issue. Pull the transmission dip stick and check that the fluid is bright red and is at the proper level. You could have had a leak somewhere and not known it. How has your transmission fluid maintenance been? If everything checks out, I'd say you have a fault in the transmission itself. If you are at all concerned that your local guy won't be able to properly diagnose or fix the issue, I'd have it towed to a transmission shop or a local dealer. For your sake, I hope it's an easy fix. I have a bad feeling that it isn't.

 

[buxta]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Thanks for the advice.

The engine is still warm so I don't think I can open the cap to look at the cooler fluid until it cools. I will need to leave that until this evening.

I did check the transmission fluid. There is plenty of it and it looks clean. I wiped the dipstick on a paper towel and the color was more light brown (perhaps even orange) than than pink.

Will post the color of the coolant later.

Thanks again,

b.

 

[xrdad]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Hang on.. no park position (still moves)?

Check your driveshafts... one popped out.

 

[buxta]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Hang on.. no park position (still moves)?

Correct. It's currently on a slight incline and if I put it in Park the transmission does not engage; the truck rolls forward. I have to use the parking brake.

Check your driveshafts... one popped out.

Is that something I would see clearly under the truck?

I had the CV Joints replaced about 4000 miles ago in case that is relevant.

Unfortunately I am away from the truck right now and will be back at it in a few hours.

Thanks for your interest,

b.

 

[xrdad]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

No worries Buxta.

When you get back to the truck, just look under the truck near the front wheels. The likely problem is one of the axles has 'popped' out of the transmission (a service history will likely reveal a repair that stressed the component).

You 'might' see a transmission fluid leak, but given the short distance driving, you may not even see that. If you can, get under the truck and wiggle the tripot (that the end closest to the transmission). It should be reasonable tight, little up down movement but more important, no in/out movement. You'll find that one of yours will pull away completely from the transmission. You can probably push it back in and limp it back to a shop to have it inspected.

A betting man :act035:, I think the circlip that holds the shaft in the transmission is worn, or was not seated after a repair. A new seal and clip and you'll be good to go

 

[xrdad]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

just re read your last post Buxta.

I am certain the axle is popped out now.
The 'no park' was the first clue, and the replace CV joints are the clincher.

Again, the joint was likely not pushed in all the way to make the clip seat, or worse, the repair shop didn't replace it when they had the joint out and damaged it taking it out or putting it back in.

This is for sure a warrantable repair at a quality service facility. I'd be pretty upset with them. This is a dangerous issue, and could have caused serious problems. I this instance, I think you'll get away very lucky.

 

[buxta]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Thanks so much for the advice. Will check asap.

I jumped to conclusions "Dramatic Transmission Failure" in naming the thread, but I don't think I can change the subject of this thread.

If a mod is able to do so, please can the subject be changed to "Dramatic Drivetrain Failure".

Many thanks,

b.

 

[rollinhonda]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Hmm.. yes more accurate header even if more alarming.

 

[buxta]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

just re read your last post Buxta.

I am certain the axle is popped out now.
The 'no park' was the first clue, and the replace CV joints are the clincher.

Again, the joint was likely not pushed in all the way to make the clip seat, or worse, the repair shop didn't replace it when they had the joint out and damaged it taking it out or putting it back in.

This is for sure a warrantable repair at a quality service facility. I'd be pretty upset with them. This is a dangerous issue, and could have caused serious problems. I this instance, I think you'll get away very lucky.

I got back to the truck. I checked the coolant which is very blue.

I got under the truck (parked on grass right now). Passenger side joint seems good and tight with the wheel.

Driver's side however has a lot of play where the axle joins onto the wheel. It moves at least 2/3 inches laterally, and that's not good right?

Thanks,

b.

 

[eurban]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Sounds like the axle nut has come completely loose. The "mechanics" who did the repair may have either reused (they are a one use item) an old nut and its locking mechanism failed or they didn't properly dimple the new nut to hold it in place. Take off your wheel and see if the axle nut is missing.

Assuming that this is the issue and you want to try and get the vehicle home / to a repair joint on its own steam . . . .
The axle nut might be inside the wheel, in which case it could hopefully be reinstalled and tightened sufficiently to get you by for a short drive. You could also get a new nut from dealer / parts supplier.

That said, there will most certainly damage to the male splines on the axle and the female splines in the wheel hub. Also the in and out play in the axle is no good for the CV joints. I would think that a new axle (with a new nut), and a new axle seal at the transmission would be required for a long term repair. If the hub splines are significantly damaged then those would need be replaced as well. The shop that did the work previously should be paying for everything but I am not sure I would want them to do the work on my truck . . .

Good luck!

 

[buxta]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Sounds like the axle nut has come completely loose...

That said, there will most certainly damage to the male splines on the axle and the female splines in the wheel hub. Also the in and out play in the axle is no good for the CV joints. I would think that a new axle (with a new nut), and a new axle seal at the transmission would be required for a long term repair. If the hub splines are significantly damaged then those would need be replaced as well. The shop that did the work previously should be paying for everything but I am not sure I would want them to do the work on my truck . . .

Good luck!

Thanks. I am getting a buddy to tow the truck back to the shop this evening so they can look at it tomorrow.

Is this something that could have 'just happened' or do you think it's likely a direct result of sub-prime work in having the CV joints replaced?

Thanks,

b.

 

[eurban]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Assuming the nut is missing, it is a pretty clear indicator of an installation error or a failure of the newly installed part. The axle nut has a collar at the top that is thin walled and made to be dimpled. After you torque the nut, you dimple it at the groove in the end of the axle shaft. This keeps the nut from self loosening. Skip the dimpling step, or reuse an old nut, or fail to torque the nut properly and your situation is the result. Also, I suppose the axle shaft could snap close to the threaded end due to over torquing or a manufacturing defect and produce your symptom. . .

Basically, if your axle has come loose from the wheel hub, and you had a new axle put on 4K ago, its a pretty obvious fail for the new parts / parts installer. Did you have OEM half shafts (axle with inner and outer CV joints) installed or did you go with aftermarket? Or perhaps you had new CVs put on your old axle shafts? Let us know what you find . . .

 

[xrdad]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Buxta,

I sure hope this wasn't repaired by a Honda dealer

Whomever buttoned this up made a mistake.
Who owns the mistake? You will let us know. There are several factors: who supplied the parts, who did the job are the important ones.

The tech that assembled this 'should' have confirmed the correct part was being installed, and then installed it correctly. This isn't rocket science by any means and is one of the least difficult jobs you can do. You can (but should not) reuse the old nut, and as long as the right joint went in with all the original parts, should have been trouble free.
I'm beside myself that the axle separated at the wheel end!!! The opposite end of that shaft is held in by a small retainer ring only. These can wear out or be damaged on removal, and should be replaced anytime the axle is removed. Not seating it correctly is possible, but still pretty bone head. Only a few inches of the axle are seated in the transmission, so there's not much room for mistakes here.

But on the wheel end!??? :act060:
The splines are like 6" long! There's a huge nut on the end and it must be torqued in place. To miss that, you're lucky they remembered to bolt the wheels on at all.

Sorry.. end of rant.
Mistakes happen and can be forgiven IF the repair shop is forward and accepts responsibility AND makes it right to you.
Damage is unlikely and/or insignificant in this instance.
Once the splines are fully seated and the nut torqued, all should be good. THIS is assuming that it is the right part, that nothing else was left loose causing the joint to pull away like a ball joint!. etc...

Interesting thing is I just had one CV joint replaced by the dealer on my truck, I will do the other myself. I had a noisy joint that worried me, and no time to do the repair myself. I'll find time to do the other soon. My truck has about 115000 miles (185000km) on it. I thought my lift kit may have been the cause, but now thinking this is the approx life of the joints?

 

[xrdad]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

there will most certainly damage to the male splines on the axle and the female splines in the wheel hub. Also the in and out play in the axle is no good for the CV joints. I would think that a new axle (with a new nut), and a new axle seal at the transmission would be required for a long term repair. If the hub splines are significantly damaged then those would need be replaced as well.

Eurban, the axle could only move inward in this case. The joint itself, if it is the right one, will be fine. It could not have been over extended. The splines are pretty tough material, and the axle could only spin freely if it was at the very edge. If the splines are not too mangled, the joint will slip right back into place and it will be OK.

I'm am concern that the wrong axle may be installed on this side of the truck though.. could the left and right have been swapped? If the entire axle assembly was replaced, is this one too short?

I think Buxta needs to confirm what was actually replaced, maybe even post some part # that we can search. This failure is very odd, in that it's not easy for the joint to pull out of the hub while the lower control arm is still attached. I'm not even sure it's possible. I have to do the passenger side joint on my truck this weekend. I'll loosen the nut and see if I can actually disengage the axle. Might be different from the driver's side, so not sure it will confirm anything. ;act028:

Buxta, let us know what the dealer story is. If you're OK with it, post the part numbers of the replacement parts.

 

[IanRTL]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Wow. I never even thought of the axles being faulty. That completely makes sense now with Park not engaging, the truck having little power and the now with the information of the recently replaced CV joints. Something was not installed properly for sure. Take it directly back to the place you had it done and have BOTH axles uninstalled and re-installed properly. If you don't feel comfortable with this shop doing it, demand that it be taken to a Honda dealership and that the original shop pay for everything. This isn't a small mistake - it could have been a heck of a lot worse.

 

[speedlever]

Agree with all the above.

I'm curious why you needed axles/CV joint replacement so early?

 

[zroger73]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

This isn't a small mistake - it could have been a heck of a lot worse.

Years ago, I had a friend who replaced the front, left half shaft in an Eclipse GSX. A short time later, it came loose during an aggressive driving maneuver and partially penetrated the driver's footwell - barely missing the driver's foot.

 

[xrdad]

Re: Dramatic Transmission Failure - out of the blue

Take it directly back to the place you had it done and have BOTH axles uninstalled and re-installed properly. If you don't feel comfortable with this shop doing it, demand that it be taken to a Honda dealership and that the original shop pay for everything. This isn't a small mistake - it could have been a heck of a lot worse.

I wish we could make demands like this.
The reality is the repair shop needs to confirm they put the right parts in, and on the right side. They should then inspect and repair the problem side with parts as required, inspect the opposite side for any concerns.
Demanding to take it elsewhere and have them pay for it is unrealistic (though it would be awesome!).
You could though, have taken it elsewhere and present the bill to the repair shop and demanded a refund. Then it would have gone legal and dragged on for years and cost way more in the end for everyone.

Techs make mistakes like everyone else. Been there, got the T shirt. We are human. The shop needs to investigate the cause and make it right to the customer now.

If it was my shop: a rental while I investigate if/why the wrong parts were installed, why is was installed incorrectly and repaired correctly at no charge. When complete, an inspection and explanation with the customer, with a gift certificate for his troubles (gas card, restaurant, etc...). Not a free service, as that would assume the customer has forgiven me. If he comes back because the explanation was fair, I'd know I made a loyal customer and gained his trust back.

That's how you treat a customer.
Never going to happen in today's world, is it?!!!