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... At a two-day gathering for Honda’s suppliers in March, CEO Takahiro Hachigo sounded the alarm.
At the Hotel Higashinihon in Utsunomiya, Hachigo told them the Japanese automaker was facing a crisis after a string of costly recalls and other quality blunders and it needed to plot a new course, according to two people who attended the meeting.

...In the 1980s and much of the 1990s, the name Honda struck terror into the hearts of executives at the Detroit 3 carmakers because they simply couldn’t match its low-cost, efficient, well-built cars.

But after a slew of recalls since 2014 for problems with components such as airbags, sliding doors and engines, Honda’s status as a benchmark for quality and efficiency has been seriously damaged -- and the quality crisis is hitting profits.
 

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Quality always goes down when engineers in charge are replaced by bean counters.
Honda has been lead by a bean counter since 1991- Quality has fallen for profits over product testing.
Honda founder Soichiro Honda must be rolling in his grave.
 

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Honda has been too compartmentalized for too long resulting in the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

Profits across the industry are becoming so thin that partnerships are being formed just so automakers can stay afloat.

Ford has flushed their sedans while GM and FCA aren't far behind. Ford is in bed with Volkswagen. Toyota (Yaris/Mazda2, 86/BR-Z, Supra/Z4) , Subaru (BR-Z/86) , Mazda (Mazda2/Yaris), and BMW (Z4/Surpa) are sharing models. Toyota and Mazda are jointly building a new plant in Alabama where they will both build vehicles. Hyundai and Kia are pumping out impressive models with top-notch reliability.

Honda wants to remain independent and do things their own way, but these same principles are limiting their growth, stifling innovation, cutting profits, and lowering quality. It's past time for a change.
 

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I’m on my second Honda now, also well over 100,000 miles (2007). I’m really sorry to see this. So many corporations are getting slack about quality these days.


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... Hyundai and Kia are pumping out impressive models with top-notch reliability.
Are you sure about that? I recall them having several recalls over serious engine issues.
The latest recall:

Hyundai and Kia are recalling 534,000 SUVs due to an engine problem that can cause fires, the automakers announced on Friday. The recall includes 379,000 Kia Soul vehicles from model years 2012-2016, as well as the Hyundai Tucson (2011-2013), the Kia Sportage (2011-2012), and the Kia Sedona (2015-2018).

The Center for Auto Safety says that a total of 2.9 million Hyundai and Kia vehicles need to be recalled to properly address the fire risk.
 

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It's nice to see the brass admitting there is a problem. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem.
Agree. That can be a very difficult admission for a large and entrenched organization, IMO CEO Takahiro Hachigo's reported statements and goals are a positive indicator for Honda and its customers.

One can only hope that part of an overall plan to address quality shortcomings and their impacts on corporate image includes not only future improvements but also a strongly pro-active approach to addressing quality issues experienced by current owners. IMO that'll require its own explicit and assertive policy position, driven from the top down.
 

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The frustrating part is that these improvements won't happen overnight. This quality slide and bloated product assortment has been unfolding over the last couple of decades. It could take years before we see Honda return to the top of the reliability charts from their current, average position.

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
 

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I doubt they will ever get back to the reliability of 10 years ago-too much new tech which is software driven& will always have bugs as all software does,many more potential points of failure due to unnecessary and poorly functioning tech,more complex wiring and thousands more electrical connections,di injection with very high pressure fuel system,fuel dilution, cvts etc,etc, cars are becoming rolling play stations full of distracting and unreliable tech.Evs will reduce some of the drivetrain problems but will still have many ever changing software issues.I think 2014 was the last relatively low problem year for crv.
 

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The one regret I have about leaving my older tech 2008 model truck was that a newer vehicle comes with a lot of worry, even when nothing breaks, you just know that sword of Damocles is hanging over you. It's one of the prices of progress. One thing Honda can do is try to get on their dealers to improve customer service when quality problems are detected. Gaslighting customers over issues (pretending they don't exist, blaming the customer, etc) is the absolute worst thing to do.
 

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Quality always goes down when engineers in charge are replaced by bean counters.
Honda has been lead by a bean counter since 1991- Quality has fallen for profits over product testing.
Honda founder Soichiro Honda must be rolling in his grave.
True.

They cut costs in production, cheapen the quality of components and create products for unrealistic "market segments." This is exaggerated by the technology itself to "optimize" everything in the supply chain, including "how do we do more with less and maintain a profit margin of X."

No industry was created by bean counters, They can ruin a company, walk away with bonuses and get another job ruining another company. The quality reduction by cutting costs translates into their bonuses. They have a vested interest in maximizing their potential income.

They are ebil like the debil.
 

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Y'all just convinced me to go ahead and buy HondaCare. Where can I get the best deal on it?
Check out this thread for recommendations. Should be less than $1,500 for 8-year, 120,000-mile, $0 deductible coverage from the Honda dealers that sell Honda Care online.

 

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Did I hear someone say bring back Ito? :eek:

:devilish:
 

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Quality always goes down when engineers in charge are replaced by bean counters.
True.

They cut costs in production, cheapen the quality of components and create products for unrealistic "market segments." This is exaggerated by the technology itself to "optimize" everything in the supply chain, including "how do we do more with less and maintain a profit margin of X."

No industry was created by bean counters, They can ruin a company, walk away with bonuses and get another job ruining another company. The quality reduction by cutting costs translates into their bonuses. They have a vested interest in maximizing their potential income.

They are ebil like the debil.
IMO that perspective is a bit too extreme. I spent 30 years in the engineering profession (in 'engineering' roles and leadership / policy making roles) and saw plenty of examples where organizations were run into the ground, suffered the same foibles to which you allude, absent dominating leadership / policy making (or even significant roles) by "bean counters".

IME it takes the difficult balance of all three leadership / policy considerations to ensure long-term corporate success (measured in product value, product quality, and thereby customer satisfaction): engineering, bean counting, and legal. I add legal because leadership dominated by lawyers / legal considerations is another oft-cited weakness in corporate management.

I've seen no shortage of cases where an organization was on a path to implosion due to lack of consideration of any one of those factors; in more than a few cases it was intervention by "bean counters" (or lawyers) that saved the day.

'Engineers' as a group writ large have no corner on good corporate leadership capabilities; in fact, if you look at that group as a whole (and look at the academic training required to achieve the title 'engineer'), you'll find that engineers equipped to be effective corporate leaders / policy makers are the exception rather than the rule. IMO / IME
 

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Quality always goes down when engineers in charge are replaced by bean counters.
Honda has been lead by a bean counter since 1991- Quality has fallen for profits over product testing.
Honda founder Soichiro Honda must be rolling in his grave.
As someone who has owned ~20 Honda/Acura's in my life, every single model except I think the new HRV, and Passport I disagree. The Bean counters took over around 2005. But, it has always been the case that the American made Hondas have been worse quality. The S2000 (AP1) being one of the last completely kick arss model runs.
 

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IMO that perspective is a bit too extreme. I spent 30 years in the engineering profession (in 'engineering' roles and leadership / policy making roles) and saw plenty of examples where organizations were run into the ground, suffered the same foibles to which you allude, absent dominating leadership / policy making (or even significant roles) by "bean counters".

IME it takes the difficult balance of all three leadership / policy considerations to ensure long-term corporate success (measured in product value, product quality, and thereby customer satisfaction): engineering, bean counting, and legal. I add legal because leadership dominated by lawyers / legal considerations is another oft-cited weakness in corporate management.

I've seen no shortage of cases where an organization was on a path to implosion due to lack of consideration of any one of those factors; in more than a few cases it was intervention by "bean counters" (or lawyers) that saved the day.

'Engineers' as a group writ large have no corner on good corporate leadership capabilities; in fact, if you look at that group as a whole (and look at the academic training required to achieve the title 'engineer'), you'll find that engineers equipped to be effective corporate leaders / policy makers are the exception rather than the rule. IMO / IME
There are engineers and then there are "engineers". In many companies, software programmers are called "engineers". Yep, the same ones we complain about who cause all the software glitches. Unfortunately faster and cheaper drives most companies. The measurement is what you've done this quarter, not your 5 year plan.

Honda has acknowledged a problem and it will take some time to fix it. Let's hope they get it right.
 

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Are you sure about that? I recall them having several recalls over serious engine issues.
The latest recall:
Well you are correct on the recall but I had a buddy with a 2012 Hyundai Sedan with about 112k and engine self destruct due to crank bearings. THey Charged Him 0 dollars to rebuild his engine complete and that is here in little town Alabama dealership.
 

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Well you are correct on the recall but I had a buddy with a 2012 Hyundai Sedan with about 112k and engine self destruct due to crank bearings. THey Charged Him 0 dollars to rebuild his engine complete and that is here in little town Alabama dealership.
That's because there was recall. Hyundai paid for the engine repair/replacement - not the dealer.

"In the affected vehicles, metallic debris may not have been fully removed during manufacturing of the engine crankshaft. If the debris was not completely removed, oil flow may be restricted through the connecting rod bearings, causing connecting rod damage. A worn connecting rod bearing will produce a metallic, cyclic knocking noise from the engine and possible engine failure.

Hyundai will notify owners, and dealers will inspect the vehicles and replace the engine assembly, as necessary, free of charge. Additionally, Hyundai Motor America will increase the warranty for the engine sub-assembly (short block) to 10 years/120,000 miles for both original and subsequent owners of 2011 and 2012 Sonatas manufactured at Hyundai Motor Manufacturing Alabama equipped with 2.0 liter and 2.4 liter Gasoline Direct injection engines."
 

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Unfortunately faster and cheaper drives most companies. The measurement is what you've done this quarter, not your 5 year plan.
That's where the balance between short-term and long-term, internal and external stakeholder, metrics comes into play. That balance is the (admittedly difficult) challenge and responsibility of top-level leadership. Some are better at it than others, many come to learn that the job is easy when times are 'fat' but becomes overwhelmingly difficult when times are 'thin' (extremely competitive periods). The latter times are when leadership skills are really tested; this is one of those times in the automotive industry, IMO.

Honda has acknowledged a problem and it will take some time to fix it. Let's hope they get it right.
Amen. Honda has brought a lot of great innovation to the market, let's hope they continue to do that for the benefit of all.
 
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