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Honda Dealer Service Fluid Changes

3655 Views 16 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  FTM1
As some of you know I an not a DIY person when it come to auto service.
I always take in for Honda/Acura service or Pat Goss Garage from Motor Week TV with my Acura Tires Plus or NTB. I stick to wash/wax interior care
So as posted last week Monday had airbag recall done when Ridgeline in for service of battery drain issue possible rear door actuator problem confirmed and fixed.
While there they found uneven wear on brakes so did brake service unexpected repair. This is sisters vehicle and I don't drive it like I use to the first two years of ownership. I don't spend the time I once did with it other than taken it in for dealer service. The Maintenance Minder probably is way off schedule but I keep all dealership paper work and know what is done or needs to be. I have some knowledge about auto repair but don't attempt to do it.
So I try to keep this vehicle well serviced for sister as it is always on the road and needs it for transportation to commuter bus locations for work only vehicle.
So I request some fluid changes that I know are coming up or about to soon
Also request Engine Air Filter & Cabin Pollen Filter be changed.
Requested Fluids to be changed were Transmission/Diff/VTM-4.
Ridgeline now has 160,000+ miles on it purchased new timing belt water pump done at interval. I reading invoice from work last week sister did not give it to me when we got truck last week. I just got it and closely looked over it. It was verbiage about drivers airbag that made it seem like it was not done passenger bag inflator was clearly replaced. Remember I posted in airbag recall thread they called me from dealership after we picked truck up from service saying your airbag was in come in for recall service. I called service manager this morning and he pulled up invoice on computer so we each were looking at same thing. He said it's extra verbiage on invoice that should have been taken out. But at bottom it does say Replaced Drivers Side Airbag Inflator.
But the Cabin Pollen Filter they replaced had bugs and stuff so I see they used BG products Fridge Fresh part#BG7073
They changed the Engine Oil that I did not request but it probably was about due a discount adjustment was made to cover this mistake. They used the BG products MOA part#115
They Drained & Refilled Trans I see they used BG products part #310 Trans Conditioner. and it says BULKATFSY I would guess that is some ATF Fluid Bulk they use. So I am looking for the VTM-4 Fluid on the invoice I have been thru this a few times so know what should be there. I don't see it so I make another call to service manager he looks and says what I see on invoice they call or use SYNCRO SHIFT 96OZ also BG products part#79296
If you go to BG and look up this product its does say Dual Pump & VTM-4 Fluid along with some other manufactures like Benz. Reading on other forums some older post they were screaming you only should use VTM-4 but if this is what a Honda Service would use & it clearly states on BG VTM-4 remember Honda does not make the fluids.
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Am I understanding correctly that a Honda dealer used non-Honda parts and fluids and unapproved additives when servicing your vehicle?
Am I understanding correctly that a Honda dealer used non-Honda parts and fluids and unapproved additives when servicing your vehicle?
I would not say they are not unknown additives Honda/Acura owners manuals say not to use additives. But for years with my Acura they used & still do many BG products. So the owners manuals are not exactly true. I you go back in Honda/Acura parts you will see what the use Honda/Acura does not make their fluids or chemicals. The Honda dealership is were I purchased the BG44K fuel treat for my Acura that was sitting for 2yrs un started. The dealerships use many of the products in service to fix or maintain vehicles from things like fuel rail cleaning chemicals and machines. Acura has used the Transmission Conditioner in my car the MOA they use to put in but I use Full SYN oil as had been the case with Ridgeline but they made the mistake and put regular in as I did not request oil change and no charge. It was most likely due for an oil change I was busy with the other fluids.
But yes the dealers do use additives or other fluids that are compatible or exceed specification. I bet anything if you go to Honda/Acura dealership they have this stuff in their parts department because it's what they use.
I have always got BG44K at different Honda/Acura dealerships. When we had Dodge Caravan they use to use it at the dealership service and the Benz dealership next to the Honda used it as well. I got a can at the Ford dealership in same auto park multiple car dealerships there. This is why I was looking for the VTM-4 fluid but they use the BG SYNCRO SHIFT as said looks like it's okay and may exceed. Take a look at some of the fluids several of dealerships we order from on here. I am sure you will find BG products because they use in service. Honda/Acura do not make their own fluids.
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Fred, I think I've seen that reported a time or two over the years (a Honda dealer using non-Honda fluids). While I expect you are fine with the BG products, my OCD would raise some stink over some of those fluids, especially tranny and rear diff. Honda seems to make a big deal about using no substitutes for certain fluids.

I'll be curious what your service manager says about it.
I will look back at older Dealership invoices when I had last Transmission Service and see if they put in BG products #310 BG ATC Plus Trans Conditioner. I know for sure Acura Dealership put it in my 2000 3.2TL when it had Trans Service nothing new dealership service use BG products.
Fred, I think I've seen that reported a time or two over the years (a Honda dealer using non-Honda fluids). While I expect you are fine with the BG products, my OCD would raise some stink over some of those fluids, especially tranny and rear diff. Honda seems to make a big deal about using no substitutes for certain fluids.

I'll be curious what your service manager says about it.
My service manager has been with Honda for over 30years. When I had my 80 Prelude he was service advisor in 1983. He was manager and got moved into the their Chevrolet Service. This was doing the time after I did not have Honda but got an Acura. He came back to Honda service after we got the Ridgeline in the main Dealership Service department. Then they moved him back to the original old Honda Service. My Acura service advisor has been with Acura dealership over 14yrs and some others have been there at least 10yrs.
So you have two separate dealerships Honda & Acura not related or near each other using BG products.
The owners manual can't say to use these products but I bet Honda/Acura approved the use of them. The BG products are used in Dealerships. This is not lone wolf dealership using some strange products. BG supplies products to Dealerships and they use them in service.
MAYbe it's just me, but if I'm paying the Honda (or Acura) Dealer to do fluid changes, I would expect them to use Honda Fluids where Honda specifies a specific fluid. If Honda specifies an industry standard spec, or equivalents (like for engine oil) then great. AS far as I know, Honda has never approved an equivalent for their tranny fluid or VTM-4. I do think they approve some fluids for use as temporary replacements until the Honda fluid can be installed. If there are equivalents, it is news to me.
Totally agree, ccc. I am also not aware of any Honda approved fluid substitutions. I would be tempted to contact Honda corporate about this issue. And yet Fred seems to have a good relationship with the service manager. I think I'd start there and see where it goes.
MAYbe it's just me, but if I'm paying the Honda (or Acura) Dealer to do fluid changes, I would expect them to use Honda Fluids where Honda specifies a specific fluid. If Honda specifies an industry standard spec, or equivalents (like for engine oil) then great. AS far as I know, Honda has never approved an equivalent for their tranny fluid or VTM-4. I do think they approve some fluids for use as temporary replacements until the Honda fluid can be installed. If there are equivalents, it is news to me.
I am checking out forums about the BG SYNCRO SHIFT 2 and people have posted about Honda/Acura Dealerships using it as instead of VTM-4
Somebody posted back in 2009 their dealership in New Mexico used it in their Pilot. I saw the spec sheet on the BG product site this mourning & it said specified for Honda Dual Pump/Dual Pump 2 & VTM-4 applications.
I see a lot of people that have posted from forums that are cautious of this somebody with a Ridgeline said Honda Dealer used it 2011. So you got some forum guys that are cautious and the Dealerships using it. As said the BG#310 ATC Plus has been used several times in my Acura 3.2TL at transmission services . Many of you must be as I know doing your own service because I am sure you would have seen some BG products at your dealerships.
I would not say they are not unknown additives Honda/Acura owners manuals say not to use additives. But for years with my Acura they used & still do many BG products. So the owners manuals are not exactly true. I you go back in Honda/Acura parts you will see what the use Honda/Acura does not make their fluids or chemicals. The Honda dealership is were I purchased the BG44K fuel treat for my Acura that was sitting for 2yrs un started. The dealerships use many of the products in service to fix or maintain vehicles from things like fuel rail cleaning chemicals and machines. Acura has used the Transmission Conditioner in my car the MOA they use to put in but I use Full SYN oil as had been the case with Ridgeline but they made the mistake and put regular in as I did not request oil change and no charge. It was most likely due for an oil change I was busy with the other fluids.
But yes the dealers do use additives or other fluids that are compatible or exceed specification. I bet anything if you go to Honda/Acura dealership they have this stuff in their parts department because it's what they use.
I have always got BG44K at different Honda/Acura dealerships. When we had Dodge Caravan they use to use it at the dealership service and the Benz dealership next to the Honda used it as well. I got a can at the Ford dealership in same auto park multiple car dealerships there. This is why I was looking for the VTM-4 fluid but they use the BG SYNCRO SHIFT as said looks like it's okay and may exceed. Take a look at some of the fluids several of dealerships we order from on here. I am sure you will find BG products because they use in service. Honda/Acura do not make their own fluids.
That's positively bizarre to me. I'm aware that Honda doesn't make their own fluids and that they are made by others to Honda specifications (which are sometimes higher and/or proprietary). I've been in the service departments of several Honda dealerships in my life and I've never seen the use of non-Honda-branded fluids. The sole exception is the non-Honda-branded bulk engine oil used at a local "mega" Honda dealer. Every other fluid that is put into the vehicle comes from a container that has "Honda Genuine" written on it. I can't fathom the use of unapproved additives like fuel treatment and transmission conditioner. I'm very curious to hear Honda's position on such practices.
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That's positively bizarre to me. I'm aware that Honda doesn't make their own fluids and that they are made by others to Honda specifications (which are sometimes higher and/or proprietary). I've been in the service departments of several Honda dealerships in my life and I've never seen the use of non-Honda-branded fluids. The sole exception is the non-Honda-branded bulk engine oil used at a local "mega" Honda dealer. Every other fluid that is put into the vehicle comes from a container that has "Honda Genuine" written on it. I can't fathom the use of unapproved additives like fuel treatment and transmission conditioner. I'm very curious to hear Honda's position on such practices.
You never heard of BG44K Fuel System Cleaner part#208. The auto dealerships use/sell this stuff this is were you would more easily purchase it. The other Fluids/chemicals not so sure about sale over counter. But 44K I think Napa has it I have seen. When I first got my 00 3.2TL new the dealership was putting this in the tank at service intervals 7,500miles. I think they stopped that not sure about now.
Pat Goss from Motor Week a BG products shop had classes I took a two night course at the College of Southern Maryland. He told us the proper way to use BG44K that most people don't do. Let fuel tank got low like fuel light comes on let fuel get lower like 2 gallons in tank. Go to gas station put BG44K in tank first and fill-up tank. You then do not want to drive that tank of fuel out so quickly. So don't plan a highway trip to use that fuel so fast you want it to stay in with normal use of vehicle. This would be like someone in a daily commute to work. Then you use up that tank of fuel and let it get near empty again like just before your fuel light would come on then re fuel.
The BG products ATC Plus was put in several times at Acura Dealership for Transmission Service. Even after none recall for Acura/Honda 5 speed automatic problem. The BG MOA for the oil was also used when I first got my Acura almost 17yrs ago. Now after I switched to synthetic they did not use it.
I have been using synthetic in the Ridgeline since about the 2nd oil change the 1st was free. If my sister gets it doe at Tires Plus I have told her to use synthetic. This time at dealership I did not request oil change but was there mistake thinking since I was changing others No Charge. So with the regular oil they use I guess they put the MOA in same as Acura was doing many years ago. But on the BG SNYCRO SHIFT vs VTM-4 a good person to ask might be Pat Goss. If I can think about it Saturday try to call in to his local TV show but could always get him later.
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I won't argue the effectiveness of the products you've mentioned - they may be nothing short of God-sent miracles as far as I know. I'm just floored that a Honda dealer would use alternatives to Honda-branded fluids. That just screams of a big, open can of liability worms. If I paid a Honda dealer to change my iVTM-4 fluid and they used anything other than Honda Genuine Dual Pump System Fluid II and my iVTM-4 unit failed, they'd be buying me a new iVTM-4 unit. Honda says DO NOT use additives in the fuel, oil, transmission, etc. If a Honda dealer pours a bottle of conditioner in a Honda's transmission - that's a huge liability risk whether or not the customer requests it.
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I completely agree with Zroger . . .

Is the BG transmission fluid they used supposedly equivalent to the DW-1 fluid or the earlier Z-1? Do they even have the specs to answer this?

When you change your transmission fluid with a typical dump and fill you only get 1/3-1/4 of the old fluid out. If, for instance, you decided to make a stink about the fluid they used, it would be a pretty major PIA to actually remedy the situation as their BG fluid is now mixed in. It would take NUMEROUS dump and fills to get the MAJORITY of it out. Installing non OEM transmission fluid in your (Sisters) Ridge's trans is not only against Honda's protocol, it is not easily remedied. They have basically made a significant decision for you without asking and can't really undo it. Seems like a pretty dumb move to me.

BG fuel system cleaner?? I'm sure people argue its efficacy all the time but most of what I know about these type of blend in with your fuel cleaners is that they really don't do much except pad the wallets of the garages /shops that are selling them to you. Feed the injectors directly a concentrated cleaning solution and you can indeed make difference.
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I completely agree with Zroger . . .

Is the BG transmission fluid they used supposedly equivalent to the DW-1 fluid or the earlier Z-1? Do they even have the specs to answer this?

When you change your transmission fluid with a typical dump and fill you only get 1/3-1/4 of the old fluid out. If, for instance, you decided to make a stink about the fluid they used, it would be a pretty major PIA to actually remedy the situation as their BG fluid is now mixed in. It would take NUMEROUS dump and fills to get the MAJORITY of it out. Installing non OEM transmission fluid in your (Sisters) Ridge's trans is not only against Honda's protocol, it is not easily remedied. They have basically made a significant decision for you without asking and can't really undo it. Seems like a pretty dumb move to me.

BG fuel system cleaner?? I'm sure people argue its efficacy all the time but most of what I know about these type of blend in with your fuel cleaners is that they really don't do much except pad the wallets of the garages /shops that are selling them to you. Feed the injectors directly a concentrated cleaning solution and you can indeed make difference.
Why is a dumb move I bet my Acura Dealership is servicing MDX SUV the same way and whatever vehicles that use Dual Pump/Dual Pump 2/ VTM-4 fluid.
There is a Technical Data Sheet on the SYNCRO SHIFT PDF you got to look around for it BG products Driveline section is what the product is under. But it says you can use for others. So it has to be a reason and some okay from Honda/Acura for the Dealerships to use these product for service. My Acura Dealership is one of Maryland Oldest. They moved into their current location about 15rs ago. The old place was just across the parking lot from current when a larger Cadillac Dealership moved Acura remodeled it and moved into.
ATC Plus is what Acura has put into my 3.2TL like Honda put into Ridgeline these are two separate Dealerships 15 miles apart not connected to each other. If you look on web you will see people reporting same from other dealerships like New Mexico. These products are in Dealerships service so they most be using them. They had to get the okay from Honda/Acura regardless of what owners manuals say. But they most say this because someone would go buy GM fluid/coolant from say Autozone and put it in their Honda/Acura. The product would not meet Honda specs. But if multiple Acura/Honda Dealer service are using BG products and somebody at corporation gave the okay. But the owners manual could not say use BG products or another. But found a post about BG44K on Amazon 3yrs old guy said it was only fuel additive Honda allows Dealerships to use. He said most of the Dealerships he has talked to use BG products in service. They have that stuff but may not sell over counter except BG44K that I have got from Sport Honda Rosenthal Acura Chevy Chase Acura Norris Acura West/Koons Silver Spring Ford. Herb Gordon Mercedes Benz probably has it they have a Nissan Dealership as well. But also use to have a Dodge Dealership we got the 1993 Caravan at. This is were I heard of use of BG44K as well as Pat Goss
The Honda Dealership is located in the same auto park with Benz Ford Nissan
Acura West is in Baltimore suburbs Chevy Chase Acura is in DC suburb.
But with people reporting this use of Acura/Honda SYNCRO SHIFT all over country for at least a few years I saw 2009 date on web must be something.
BG ATC PLUS & MOA, 44K put into my Acura by Dealership 1st time years ago as it will be 17yrs in Dec. The owners manual is generic in it's wording but not wrong. It must have been okay if they are still using it & meet or exceed what they have. I don't think their are a bunch of Dealership Service Department that have Gone Rogue around the country. I said my Honda dealer did it. The ATC Plus my Acura dealership did that in my car. Saw a post on web said another Honda dealer same New Mexico dealer saw another from Front Royal VA that's way out in the western boonies of DC. So is this a big conspiracy? Did all these service departments just happen to use BG fluids in different vehicles over the years? Are all of them going against Honda/Acura? It's a much better chance they were shown or told they can use it.
I am sure Honda gave the okay of use
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Well, if it's on the internet, it must be true! ;)

I have never seen Honda say BG or any other additives, conditioners, or alternatives are "okay" nor have I personally seen non-Honda fluids aside from engine oil and windshield washer fluid used or sold at Honda dealerships, but I haven't pilfered through their inventory warehouses, either. :)

I have seen Honda say use ONLY "Genuine Honda so-and-so" and DO NOT use additives in owner's manuals and service bulletins.

Again, I'm not saying these products don't work or aren't superior to Honda-branded fluids. I'm just saying it is in the best interest of the dealer's liability to use only Honda-branded fluids where such exists. On the other hand, the dealer can stand to make a higher profit by using non-Honda fluids while increasing their liability. Why would Honda approve of, let alone suggest, the use of a competitor's product which would cut into sales of their own product? It just doesn't make sense.
Well, if it's on the internet, it must be true! ;)

I have never seen Honda say BG or any other additives, conditioners, or alternatives are "okay" nor have I personally seen non-Honda fluids aside from engine oil and windshield washer fluid used or sold at Honda dealerships, but I haven't pilfered through their inventory warehouses, either. :)

I have seen Honda say use ONLY "Genuine Honda so-and-so" and DO NOT use additives in owner's manuals and service bulletins.

Again, I'm not saying these products don't work or aren't superior to Honda-branded fluids. I'm just saying it is in the best interest of the dealer's liability to use only Honda-branded fluids where such exists. On the other hand, the dealer can stand to make a higher profit by using non-Honda fluids while increasing their liability. Why would Honda approve of, let alone suggest, the use of a competitor's product which would cut into sales of their own product? It just doesn't make sense.
I know my local dealer uses "aftermarket" fluids that are NOT spec'd by Honda. What I mean is, they routinely use fuel treatment, engine cleaner, brake cleaners, oil, and such and charge the customer plenty for it. However, I am also sure they use Honda Branded spec fluids for Tranny, power steering, coolant, and VTM. They charge an arm and a leg for them also (retail). They even change the aluminum washer each time they change the fluid (I haven't done that in years).

I also have little doubt that there are dealers that maximize profit selling the alternative fluids to folks that don't know any better (and most don't care). My wife is one of those people. Her criteria for service? I get in the car and turn the key and it goes. Therefore service is not required.

I doubt there is any research available, at least not to us, that would indicate any failure rates of the alternatives (refused warranty claims for example). So we live in America, buyer beware. Honda tells me to use nothing but Honda fluid in a $5000 transmission...That's what I'm going to do. So far so good.
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Well, if it's on the internet, it must be true! ;)

I have never seen Honda say BG or any other additives, conditioners, or alternatives are "okay" nor have I personally seen non-Honda fluids aside from engine oil and windshield washer fluid used or sold at Honda dealerships, but I haven't pilfered through their inventory warehouses, either. :)

I have seen Honda say use ONLY "Genuine Honda so-and-so" and DO NOT use additives in owner's manuals and service bulletins.

Again, I'm not saying these products don't work or aren't superior to Honda-branded fluids. I'm just saying it is in the best interest of the dealer's liability to use only Honda-branded fluids where such exists. On the other hand, the dealer can stand to make a higher profit by using non-Honda fluids while increasing their liability. Why would Honda approve of, let alone suggest, the use of a competitor's product which would cut into sales of their own product? It just doesn't make sense.
I don't have the answer to why Honda/Acura or any other New vehicle Dealership like Toyota/Lexus Mercedes Benz that does the exact same. The dealerships must be confident the products work. If there were mass failures something would have been done years ago. I don't see Dealership covering this because they used an additive and something happen. I don't see BG covering massive vehicle failures either. I am very well aware of Honda/Acura owners manual words as have been owner for 36yrs and have been getting service at dealerships on a regular basis. But as said new car dealerships do use many of these products in service. I found another post on Piloteers Forum that said dealer used BG SYNCRO SHIFT 2 in Pilot not VTM-4 It was dated 2015. They were getting same responses. Why would Acura dealership use BG ATC PLUS in new 5speed transmission or anybody else that original had known recall defect.
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