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Discussion Starter #1
If you are interested in better MPGs, and throttle response please hit me up



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Will, you may want to have some sort of documentation to support your claims. This cleans up the repetitive questions from various members and also hones down on very important concerns from members.
Price, availability, Company who makes it, your dyno runs, tuning software & tuner, level expertise, available platform ('06-08, 09-'14) etc etc are few things to include.
 

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Yes to Smuf's suggestions's above.

I must say that from a common sense / arm chair quaterback perspective that intake looks a bit crude. The Holley manifold creates a big chamber and then the intake just pulls air from the middle of the chamber without any blending or smoothing of the flow. That's not to say that it doesn't work well but it sure just looks quick and dirty rather than actually tested and engineered. How about some more details?
 

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Will, you may want to have some sort of documentation to support your claims. This cleans up the repetitive questions from various members and also hones down on very important concerns from members.
Price, availability, Company who makes it, your dyno runs, tuning software & tuner, level expertise, available platform ('06-08, 09-'14) etc etc are few things to include.
Absolutely I couldn鈥檛 agree more , where I get tunes done is currently relocating to Gainesville as soon as I can I will get concrete evidence


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Yes to Smuf's suggestions's above.

I must say that from a common sense / arm chair quaterback perspective that intake looks a bit crude. The Holley manifold creates a big chamber and then the intake just pulls air from the middle of the chamber without any blending or smoothing of the flow. That's not to say that it doesn't work well but it sure just looks quick and dirty rather than actually tested and engineered. How about some more details?
It is as it is supposed to provide a very linear passage for the air to travel from the TB to the cylinder head. It is used by many tuners running turbos on their J-series.
This manifold is not specially made for the engine. As you can tell, it is just the top half of the Holley EFI mid/high rise manifolds (Holley PN: 300-210) that is mated to a base plate so it can fit on a J-series block. This is not a true & designed manifold as the plenum volume and runner staggering is probably all wrong. The plenum, at its highest point (peak after the TB), is only 3.9" tall from the baseplate and tapers down.
I wont be surprised that the power curve shows, during a baseline dyno run, that there is a substantial loss in torque and power before 4000 rpm. Once the Vtech kicks in and the engine 'switches to the short runners' then the Holley manifold will see better results, compliments to the larger TB. Under forced induction, the lower restriction is a great blessing.

P2R runs that kit with the baseplate, all gaskets and TB spacer for $700 and just the plenum top (Holley efi) is $285 from Holley. So the $400+ goes into the gaskets and plates.
If you want to go balls out, then the Prankparts $1400 Jseires manifold is another option. lol
 

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It is as it is supposed to provide a very linear passage for the air to travel from the TB to the cylinder head. It is used by many tuners running turbos on their J-series.
This manifold is not specially made for the engine. As you can tell, it is just the top half of the Holley EFI mid/high rise manifolds (Holley PN: 300-210) that is mated to a base plate so it can fit on a J-series block. This is not a true & designed manifold as the plenum volume and runner staggering is probably all wrong. The plenum, at its highest point (peak after the TB), is only 3.9" tall from the baseplate and tapers down.
I wont be surprised that the power curve shows, during a baseline dyno run, that there is a substantial loss in torque and power before 4000 rpm. Once the Vtech kicks in and the engine 'switches to the short runners' then the Holley manifold will see better results, compliments to the larger TB. Under forced induction, the lower restriction is a great blessing.

P2R runs that kit with the baseplate, all gaskets and TB spacer for $700 and just the plenum top (Holley efi) is $285 from Holley. So the $400+ goes into the gaskets and plates.
If you want to go balls out, then the Prankparts $1400 Jseires manifold is another option. lol
I didn鈥檛 know about the prankparts I will have to check that out, I can鈥檛 speak on loss of low end torque because I also understand Manifold dynamics , however the data I do have yields better fuel economy once I made the switch with an average gain of 2.7 MPG on 90 degree or hotter days and a gain of 2.98 on cooler days , I can鈥檛 speak for really cold days since I have not had the manifold on that long. So if what you said is true and all I have mainly driven is stop and go city traffic then I should of shown a loss in MPGs not a gain correct ?


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I believe that the intake system on our Ridgelines is designed with a Resonator, providing certain advantages as I have come to understand the system. Would a properly designed "straight" system provide for an overall positive or negative outcome in comparison on the Ridgeline?
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Bill
 

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I believe that the intake system on our Ridgelines is designed with a Resonator, providing certain advantages as I have come to understand the system. Would a properly designed "straight" system provide for an overall positive or negative outcome in comparison on the Ridgeline?
Thanks,
Bill
Not a resonator in the manifold. The manifold is called a dual stage where the chamber mimics a longer runner and short runner, based on engine rpm and volume of air flow past the TB. The G1 has that system on the top. The resonator in intake tube (before TB) is there to kill the drone at certain engine RPM.

The variable runner manifold is not that common and has existed for over half a century; older ones are vacuum operated. So there is no one golden manifold for naturally aspirated road going vehicles. Many NA vehicles do not have dual stage either.
Plenum design is rather simple for forced inducted engines and many times they are single stage manifolds, as the turbo, supercharger or a combo, provides adequate air flow to the engine modulated by the air recirculation valve (blow off valve) and the exhaust waste gate (turbo engine).
 

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I didn鈥檛 know about the prankparts I will have to check that out, I can鈥檛 speak on loss of low end torque because I also understand Manifold dynamics , however the data I do have yields better fuel economy once I made the switch with an average gain of 2.7 MPG on 90 degree or hotter days and a gain of 2.98 on cooler days , I can鈥檛 speak for really cold days since I have not had the manifold on that long. So if what you said is true and all I have mainly driven is stop and go city traffic then I should of shown a loss in MPGs not a gain correct ?
Prank parts manifold was geared specifically for vehicles like the Civic and Integra that were J-swapped and have a very low hood clearance and the stock manifold would not clear it. They are too expensive and also a pain in the ass to install and remove. I see way more engines with P2R kit than prank kit.

Since you have other engine mods to the car including a larger than stock TB, no cats and thus a free flowing exhaust up to the third cat, it is difficult to say where the gain in fuel economy came from. What is your AFR typically? Have you logged any EGTs?
 

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Not a resonator in the manifold. The resonator in intake tube (before TB) is there to kill the drone at certain engine RPM.
I have been made to understand that the resonator does more than alter the sound?


Bill
 

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I have been made to understand that the resonator does more than alter the sound?


Bill
From an engineering standpoint, any enclosed 'box' that is used to either amplify or quieten acoustics (sound wave management) is called a resonance chamber. It exists from musical instruments to automobiles. In an automobile, greatest 'bang' is created in the engine and thus the intake and exhaust see such chambers. In the exhaust, we have the resonator and muffler. Their sole purpose, being a resonance chamber, is to manage audible frequencies and comply with SAE standards and also Federal, state and in some severe cases, municipalities. With baffling design, they quieten the exhaust sound and though some mufflers claim to 'pull' exhaust air out with its internal design (but is vastly ambiguous).

On the intake part of the engine is where things get very competitive and technical, vable valve timing, with or without valve lift, has been an engineers dream since the age of advanced motorsports. This resonance chamber we are talking about is the space between the back of the intake valves, to the back of the throttle body. When they are both closed, the space they encompass is a resonance chamber that every vehicle manufacturer tunes their system for, very crucial on naturally aspirated engines. VVT was not only designed to manage high pressure air in the intake manifold by closing the intake valves late, or closing it early to reduce pumping loss during low engine revs or opening the intake valves early to keep emissions in check and increase cylinder volume efficiency, but also capture the cancelling waves (on their return back) that could have an effect on intake air speed into the cylinders.

So an exhaust resonator and an intake manifold are both resonance chambers, however, by the virtue of their function, on is called a resonator and the other an intake plenum. The G1 has an intake runner resonator, it is a small 'J' shaped chamber attached to the intake tract and is located very near the battery.

Did a small test yesterday. At 5500 rpm, doing about 80+mph, the air meter read that 171 g/s were going past the throttle body, which is about 1371.66 CFM and using the TB size of 64mm, I calculated the air speed to be 165.05 ft/second (or 112.5mph) across the TB; which is mighty fast. You can visualize the depth of engineering that went into making some of these components.
 

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Higher mpg and better throttle response sound great! They're not free, though. I'd be interested to read or see what we'd give up to get them.
 

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Higher mpg and better throttle response sound great! They're not free, though. I'd be interested to read or see what we'd give up to get them.
Operating elevation, tire compound, tire tread, frontal and overhead accessories, engine's average operating speed range, exhaust setup, etc etc plays a role in Will's realized fuel economy bump. I am very interested to see the dyno run results once he gets the opportunity to do so.
 

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Note; This setup will not work on the later Gen1 J35Z engines running a MAF sensor and secondary air bypass throttle plates in the intake. Unless you have a standalone ECU or flash hardware that can alter the PGM-FI sensors and VE setttings.
I suspected it would not. It also seems like a foolish thing to do to a vehicle with multiple intake tract length & size capability (as with at least the later gen1 Ridge).
Still would be interesting to see before and after on the vehicle & driver in question.
 

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Note; This setup will not work on the later Gen1 J35Z engines running a MAF sensor and secondary air bypass throttle plates in the intake. Unless you have a standalone ECU or flash hardware that can alter the PGM-FI sensors and VE setttings.
Adapting a MAF in the inlet tract wont be that much of a trouble.
What is the secondary air bypass throttle plates are you talking about? the Dual stage induction manifold that has the flaps? If so, All G1s had it, just a different style intake manifold on the '09+
 

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If you have software to calibrate the MAF and disable the IAB's you're good to go. Yes the secondaries or IAB's are the dual stage intake, IAB is the old school term for secondary throttles and dual length runners.

I guess you could try running it without tuning. The PGM-FI sensors will sort each other out over time. Thing is you will end up with fuel trims that make your engine run the same as it was with all the stock parts.

I have tried to run the older V6 Accord intake cover that doesn't have the IAB system and it threw a CEL for the secondaries and even after clearing the codes it ran like crap. No low end power wat so ever, throttle response was right there, but it couldn't get out of it's own way. The primary runners are longer to hit peak resonance at lower RPM. While with the "flaps" open, the path to the combustion chambers is shorter and tuned for higher RPM.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Note; This setup will not work on the later Gen1 J35Z engines running a MAF sensor and secondary air bypass throttle plates in the intake. Unless you have a standalone ECU or flash hardware that can alter the PGM-FI sensors and VE setttings.
Correct once you go into VTEC you will get a cell unless you have an emulator to defeat it otherwise you won鈥檛 need a stand alone but tuning would help with gains obviously


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Discussion Starter #20
Adapting a MAF in the inlet tract wont be that much of a trouble.
What is the secondary air bypass throttle plates are you talking about? the Dual stage induction manifold that has the flaps? If so, All G1s had it, just a different style intake manifold on the '09+
Yes the intake manifold runner control or IMRC looks for binary code feedback to get height and low values to the PCM. If you can create an emulator you can fool the ECU


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